Not even a text on Mother's day...
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Not even a text on Mother's day...
I guess I should not have thought he would have changed. I haven't posted in awhile so a quick update on my son who moved 1600 miles away. We had to fly out due to him being suicidal and we spent 4 days with him when he wasn't at work. We got him to agree to see a psychologist we found who works with Smart Recovery and a psychiatrist who prescribes Nalotrexne to stop the cravings for booze. He agreed to see the psychologist 2x's a week plus he is going to the required alcohol class for his DUI. While we were there he was nice. He took us around the area and we thought it was a nice visit. When we left, I got a half hug but then it seemed to change. Not one text from him until late that night after I text him. As the days and weeks went on the texts became fewer. I spoke to him about 2 times since April 8th.... He called angry about the car insurance and issues with the car which I helped him through. His court case for the DUI is at the end of May. I don't know if his license has been suspended yet or not. He bought himself a bike and he was working 2 jobs at minimal wages but he was working. The psychologist I found is very old but very knowledgeable. I am afraid though because my son can fool doctors. The ones he had at home never realized he had a drinking problem until I told them. So the psychologist told me 2x's that he felt my son was doing well. I have not heard from him for 2 weeks now. The dr. doesn't answer my emails when I ask him about the bills he sends me. My son text me last Tuesday that his psychiatrist appt was $150 and if I could send it paypal... We agreed to pay for the doctor appts, the pills, and his rent if he went for help. So I asked him then if he receive the gift card I sent him and I got "yes". Not, yes thanks.... Just "yes". With that I just stopped texting and now I have not heard from him since. Thought maybe with being in counseling I would have seen a change in him, in his feelings towards me and our family. He has not called his grandparents since the night he was suicidal and I called 911 on him. I just don't understand how someone can dislike us so bad. Maybe I am looking at it wrong I just don't know.
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I had a lot of irrational resentments against the people I loved for a long time - mainly because I couldn't bring myself to blame myself for the mess I was in.
I'm sorry for your pain Hummingbird
D
I'm sorry for your pain Hummingbird
D
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Location: W Washington
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you MAY be assuming traits and qualities that he SHOULD have that he just does not.....heck he may not have even recognized that Mom's Day was YESTERDAY. it may not occur to him to contact the grandparents. his mind may not GET the social graces.........
try not to take it personal, HB. try real hard!!!
try not to take it personal, HB. try real hard!!!
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hummingbird.....here I am...the dreaded dandylion, again. lol....
If you go back to my last post to you...on 12/19/2015.....those basics still stand.
I know the awful pain when the child doesn't give us the minimum symbols that reassures us of their love for us.....and Mother's Day is probably the biggest one of all, in a mothers mind. I feel so bad for you that you are hurting over this.
I imagine that his worries over other people's feelings, right now, are non-existent. For several reasons. One is that he is still young...about 22yrs., now?
some say that the brain is not fully mature until about 24yrs. of age.....and, some are more immature than others.....and drinking doesn't help the maturing brain, wither....
Another is that there is little room in his brain for o ther people....for the alcoholic or addict...there is a literal "war" going o n in his mind 24/7....a battle between him and the alcoholic voice....
AND...he is up to his eyeballs in the developmental conflict between independence/vs. dependence. At this stage, they resent their dependence on you..even when they need/want it..... Even when they DEMAND it...they resent it.....
It is not a pleasant thing to say to a p aren't...but, the reality is, at this age, the child is on the parent's mind ---much more than the child's mind is on the parent. This can go o n for a few years.....
I know that sounds self centered on the child's part....but, such is youth.....
Their job is to learn how to fly...and it can be very hard.....
If he loved you at 6yrs., he will love you at 60. You just have to take this on faith....
I hope you have a tight rein on the boundaries....Much of his resentment of you is, no doubt, because you are coming between him and his drink....and you are "forcing" him to get help...remember that he doesn't want help...he just wants enabling....enabling to live comfortably......
You have to keep the tight boundaries, even if it means that he falls on his face...Do you know if he misses any appointments with the psychologist....I think you need to know about this if you are paying for it....
No doubt, they will make a lot of requirements of him in the DUI case.....and, he will cry about it.....but, if he does, DO NOT put a cushion under his butt.....
Does the psychologist even KNOW about the extent of his alcoholism??
Another question...does your husband still hold the same attitude?.....does he still think that this is just what college age kids do?
I hope that you will start to turn some of your attention to your own self and life....and get some professional help from people who understand this and know what they are doing.
Have you made any inroads, along this line....? Have you done any reading?
All of this helps......don't let your sons alcoholism destroy your life!
I am saying this with an abundance of empathy......
dandylion
If you go back to my last post to you...on 12/19/2015.....those basics still stand.
I know the awful pain when the child doesn't give us the minimum symbols that reassures us of their love for us.....and Mother's Day is probably the biggest one of all, in a mothers mind. I feel so bad for you that you are hurting over this.
I imagine that his worries over other people's feelings, right now, are non-existent. For several reasons. One is that he is still young...about 22yrs., now?
some say that the brain is not fully mature until about 24yrs. of age.....and, some are more immature than others.....and drinking doesn't help the maturing brain, wither....
Another is that there is little room in his brain for o ther people....for the alcoholic or addict...there is a literal "war" going o n in his mind 24/7....a battle between him and the alcoholic voice....
AND...he is up to his eyeballs in the developmental conflict between independence/vs. dependence. At this stage, they resent their dependence on you..even when they need/want it..... Even when they DEMAND it...they resent it.....
It is not a pleasant thing to say to a p aren't...but, the reality is, at this age, the child is on the parent's mind ---much more than the child's mind is on the parent. This can go o n for a few years.....
I know that sounds self centered on the child's part....but, such is youth.....
Their job is to learn how to fly...and it can be very hard.....
If he loved you at 6yrs., he will love you at 60. You just have to take this on faith....
I hope you have a tight rein on the boundaries....Much of his resentment of you is, no doubt, because you are coming between him and his drink....and you are "forcing" him to get help...remember that he doesn't want help...he just wants enabling....enabling to live comfortably......
You have to keep the tight boundaries, even if it means that he falls on his face...Do you know if he misses any appointments with the psychologist....I think you need to know about this if you are paying for it....
No doubt, they will make a lot of requirements of him in the DUI case.....and, he will cry about it.....but, if he does, DO NOT put a cushion under his butt.....
Does the psychologist even KNOW about the extent of his alcoholism??
Another question...does your husband still hold the same attitude?.....does he still think that this is just what college age kids do?
I hope that you will start to turn some of your attention to your own self and life....and get some professional help from people who understand this and know what they are doing.
Have you made any inroads, along this line....? Have you done any reading?
All of this helps......don't let your sons alcoholism destroy your life!
I am saying this with an abundance of empathy......
dandylion
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,243
Whatever you do don't beat yourself up. Sounds like you are a wonderful Mother and your son is still struggling with addiction problems. Maybe or maybe not he may get it in time. Give yourself a pat on the back, you deserve it!
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by hummingbird1094 
I just don't understand how someone can dislike us so bad. Maybe I am looking at it wrong I just don't know.
To put it a little bluntly, I am not comfortable talking to my family. Being around them or speaking to them serves as a reminder of what I did, as well as the time that I was in the hospital recovering. I am happiest when I can minimize the amount of daily reminders of that event, because it's not my most favorite memory to relive. And after going through something like that, there can be lots of small things that serve as reminders, every single day of every week. Feeling a little back pain when I wake up. Taking a warm shower. Walking past my truck as I walk to work. There are so many small triggers that can bring the moment back to my thoughts. Some family members I don't wish to speak to for no other reason than that. Also in my case, I don't enjoy 'small talk' and haven't for many, many years - and so when a family member calls to talk about life and the weather and how work is going, I'm typically unresponsive because I don't enjoy those conversations, and I can hear the apprehension creep into their voice as though they're getting the thought "oh no, he must be depressed because he isn't saying very much."
I understand that my family members are just concerned about me, but that cautious concern that I hear almost every time I talk to one of them becomes another one of the many little daily reminders that I want to avoid. Personally, and I'll probably catch some flak for this, I didn't call my mom yesterday to wish her a happy mother's day. I did send her a facebook message later in the evening before I went to bed, but that was it. It's nothing against her, I don't hate her and she didn't do anything wrong to me. For me, it's entirely about paying attention to my level of inner peace and avoiding further reminders if they start getting excessive on any given day.
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I think Thomas makes some great points here - and a reminder that guilt is a factor in addiction, and a suicide attempt. Maybe your son is embarrassed, perhaps he feels, whether real or not, that everyone is always afraid of what he may do and it weighs heavy on him.
What kind of relationship did you have with your son prior to the spiral? Was he at one time affectionate? Was he likely to call often? Was he involved in the family? If so I think its reasonable that he might be again. Recovery is a long process.
At the same time you are not a doormat. Your description of interaction with him over the past months includes his anger about an insurance issue - and you fixing it. Needing money, and you sending it. Sending him a gift card. Frustration over lack of response from Psychologist regarding bills.
He's going through a lot and I get that, but stop sending him gift cards and stop solving his problems. It seems that the only interaction you get from him is when he NEEDS something from you and it doesn't include a thank you. You made an agreement to help with certain bills. Beyond that I wouldn't do a thing. I'm sure that is hard to imagine, and that your mind goes to "what ifs", but he is going to have to work through all this on his own.
It might be a good idea for you to get a therapist that specializes in suicide. It will probably help you understand the dynamics of healing, and help you to establish healthy boundaries with your son.
What kind of relationship did you have with your son prior to the spiral? Was he at one time affectionate? Was he likely to call often? Was he involved in the family? If so I think its reasonable that he might be again. Recovery is a long process.
At the same time you are not a doormat. Your description of interaction with him over the past months includes his anger about an insurance issue - and you fixing it. Needing money, and you sending it. Sending him a gift card. Frustration over lack of response from Psychologist regarding bills.
He's going through a lot and I get that, but stop sending him gift cards and stop solving his problems. It seems that the only interaction you get from him is when he NEEDS something from you and it doesn't include a thank you. You made an agreement to help with certain bills. Beyond that I wouldn't do a thing. I'm sure that is hard to imagine, and that your mind goes to "what ifs", but he is going to have to work through all this on his own.
It might be a good idea for you to get a therapist that specializes in suicide. It will probably help you understand the dynamics of healing, and help you to establish healthy boundaries with your son.
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I'm sorry Hummingbird. It hurts when a loved one overlooks the official day of recognition for your role in their life.
It's a sign of his issues that you can't fix for him and I think that makes it hurt all the more.
Take care of you. Things might change with time.
It's a sign of his issues that you can't fix for him and I think that makes it hurt all the more.
Take care of you. Things might change with time.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 309
It has been a week since I got the text that his psychiatrist appt was $150 and I agreed to send him the $ for that. That is when I asked him if he receive the gift card and got the "yes"..... It is killing me to now text him to see how he is. I feel like I am neglecting him? I feel like I am his mother and I should be checking in on him?
Someone asked me how the relationship was prior to the suicidal issues and the move.... not good. We have not been close for awhile. At first it seemed like it was just the teenage years but then the drinking began and he withdrew more. When he moved in January, I would get calls when he was having problems. I can remember one time he called and we talked for over an hour and it was nice. He would call my parents at least once every 2 weeks or so but it has been over 5 weeks now. He is a selfish person. Never really did seem to appreciate anything we did for him. I guess I am answering my own ? now... I will just let go and let him make the first move. I just feel horrible because I feel I should be checking on him. I have no idea if his license was suspended yet but I guess I don't need to know. I don't know if he took care of his car insurance or registering his car, but I guess he is an adult now and I need to let it go. It just kills me to hear other parents talk about their sons and how they talk to them everyday and they say what they are up to... I can't even get a simple text. I want to ask how his jobs are going, how his pets are doing, if he made friends, etc.....
As far as seeing a therapist, I know I should but I have gone so many times and it just feels like I don't get anything out of it. Same with alanon... the same people are there and the same old lady talks for 30 minutes about her childhood 70 years ago.....
Yes, I feel I have filled the psychologist in on the extent of my sons drinking. I hope I did anyway. I told him that he fooled the 2 doctors at home about it. When we all met I said to him that my son needs to admit he has a problem because he can't escape it, it followed him out there and now he has a dui. I told the doctor what his BAC level was just in case my son would not tell the truth.
Do I know if my son is meeting with the psychologist? Well, I received a text 2 weeks ago from the 80 year old psychologist telling me that my son was going great and that he was not drinking nor did he have the desire to drink due to the pills. He said that my son was keeping positive and so was he and that I should to. He also added that he sent me a bill... I received the bill 2 days later and I emailed him about it because it made no sense. What we agreed on when we were out there with him he was not doing. I asked him if he wanted me to pay the fee w/out going through the insurance since that is what part of the bill was for and I received NO reply. I emailed him the 2nd time telling him that my first check was not cashed and I had sent it over 2 weeks ago. I wrote that I would put another check in the mail in case the first one was lost. I received NO reply! Yesterday, I sent him an email that I have notice that both checks have not been cashed and that I wanted to make sure he received them ... No reply! Now of course I worry he is ill or died! Then what?? I will wait until Friday and then I am calling him. My son is to see him every Thursday so if he doesn't get back to me by Friday then it is time for me to call.
Like most of you said, I need to let him figure this out on his own. I have to let go.
My daughter and I are going away for a few days next week so I hope all goes well and he doesn't text or call me with issues! Hoping I can enjoy this trip with her. She deserves it.
Someone asked me how the relationship was prior to the suicidal issues and the move.... not good. We have not been close for awhile. At first it seemed like it was just the teenage years but then the drinking began and he withdrew more. When he moved in January, I would get calls when he was having problems. I can remember one time he called and we talked for over an hour and it was nice. He would call my parents at least once every 2 weeks or so but it has been over 5 weeks now. He is a selfish person. Never really did seem to appreciate anything we did for him. I guess I am answering my own ? now... I will just let go and let him make the first move. I just feel horrible because I feel I should be checking on him. I have no idea if his license was suspended yet but I guess I don't need to know. I don't know if he took care of his car insurance or registering his car, but I guess he is an adult now and I need to let it go. It just kills me to hear other parents talk about their sons and how they talk to them everyday and they say what they are up to... I can't even get a simple text. I want to ask how his jobs are going, how his pets are doing, if he made friends, etc.....
As far as seeing a therapist, I know I should but I have gone so many times and it just feels like I don't get anything out of it. Same with alanon... the same people are there and the same old lady talks for 30 minutes about her childhood 70 years ago.....
Yes, I feel I have filled the psychologist in on the extent of my sons drinking. I hope I did anyway. I told him that he fooled the 2 doctors at home about it. When we all met I said to him that my son needs to admit he has a problem because he can't escape it, it followed him out there and now he has a dui. I told the doctor what his BAC level was just in case my son would not tell the truth.
Do I know if my son is meeting with the psychologist? Well, I received a text 2 weeks ago from the 80 year old psychologist telling me that my son was going great and that he was not drinking nor did he have the desire to drink due to the pills. He said that my son was keeping positive and so was he and that I should to. He also added that he sent me a bill... I received the bill 2 days later and I emailed him about it because it made no sense. What we agreed on when we were out there with him he was not doing. I asked him if he wanted me to pay the fee w/out going through the insurance since that is what part of the bill was for and I received NO reply. I emailed him the 2nd time telling him that my first check was not cashed and I had sent it over 2 weeks ago. I wrote that I would put another check in the mail in case the first one was lost. I received NO reply! Yesterday, I sent him an email that I have notice that both checks have not been cashed and that I wanted to make sure he received them ... No reply! Now of course I worry he is ill or died! Then what?? I will wait until Friday and then I am calling him. My son is to see him every Thursday so if he doesn't get back to me by Friday then it is time for me to call.
Like most of you said, I need to let him figure this out on his own. I have to let go.
My daughter and I are going away for a few days next week so I hope all goes well and he doesn't text or call me with issues! Hoping I can enjoy this trip with her. She deserves it.
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I just want to give ((((((hugs))))))). I can't imagine what you are going through with all of this. I do second everything that was said above.
Mom to mom speaking, and my situation is nothing compared to yours, but sometimes we just need to let them go, till they want to come back. I'm not saying not to send a text every few days just to say that "I love you". I think that is something you should do. I see way more problems here then alcoholism and or drug abuse. I am seeing depression, and or a mental disorder. I don't like to be blunt like this, but I'm pretty sure you are questioning this yourself.
I'm also with you on the Mother's Day thing. I have 3 children. Not one of them called me or text me Happy Mother's Day. Don't even want to get into that one. I had a cousin of mine that called me to wish me Happy Mother's Day. That meant the world to me.
I am thinking of you and sending hugs and prayers to both you and your son.
((((((hugs)))))))
amy
PS - I do hope you and your daughter have a really good memorable trip.
Mom to mom speaking, and my situation is nothing compared to yours, but sometimes we just need to let them go, till they want to come back. I'm not saying not to send a text every few days just to say that "I love you". I think that is something you should do. I see way more problems here then alcoholism and or drug abuse. I am seeing depression, and or a mental disorder. I don't like to be blunt like this, but I'm pretty sure you are questioning this yourself.
I'm also with you on the Mother's Day thing. I have 3 children. Not one of them called me or text me Happy Mother's Day. Don't even want to get into that one. I had a cousin of mine that called me to wish me Happy Mother's Day. That meant the world to me.
I am thinking of you and sending hugs and prayers to both you and your son.
((((((hugs)))))))
amy
PS - I do hope you and your daughter have a really good memorable trip.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Hugs hummingbird. Sorry you are suffering. It doesn't seem like your son appreciates your help in the way you would like.
Are you sure he is paying the doc? Have you thought about having the doc bill you directly? I would try to just conduct these business arrangements without him if possible - that way you don't get hurt and he doesn't feel resentment having to ask you for money (not sure if that is an issue for him??) I don't know how old your son is but he sure is lucky that he has mom and dad paying for rent and health care needs and coming out when he's suicidal - but yeah I'd figure out the exit strategy, when will he be paying for his own rent? Seems like until he does it himself he may not be able to appreciate the gifts you are giving him.
Are you sure he is paying the doc? Have you thought about having the doc bill you directly? I would try to just conduct these business arrangements without him if possible - that way you don't get hurt and he doesn't feel resentment having to ask you for money (not sure if that is an issue for him??) I don't know how old your son is but he sure is lucky that he has mom and dad paying for rent and health care needs and coming out when he's suicidal - but yeah I'd figure out the exit strategy, when will he be paying for his own rent? Seems like until he does it himself he may not be able to appreciate the gifts you are giving him.
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hi H, I'm sorry he's acting so hurtfully, and I think you're right to back off. I also think you should set up some boundaries around money. Cheques are an outmoded and awkward way of sending money and you can be left with this limbo of them not being cashed.
If it were me I'd cancel the cheques, and text him briefly to tell him that. It's a security thing really, and if he won't reply to your texts you have every right to assume they've gone astray.
It seems a bit over the top for you to get no reply (rude) but still write him another cheque. You love him but you don't have to be a doormat. If he needs something he will contact you.
Can I also suggest all money for bills goes directly to the biller, not through your son? You can do this by direct transfer, and it's very easy to learn, so don't be afraid of calling your bank and going in for a lesson. It will help you so much.
I can really understand your anxiety about his welfare after the suicide episode but try to work on the idea that you can't control him. All the worrying in the world just tells him you don't have confidence in him. My mother used to worry all the time about us 4 adult kids. Did it help us? Not even a little bit, in fact it made things worse because then we had to worry about her worrying if you get my meaning. It also became infectious. What we would have appreciated was calm confidence that we would work our way through whatever was bothering us.
I hope he comes back to you in time, but don't feel obliged to chase after him. Frankly he's behaving like a real a**hole, and while it might be understandable there's no advantage to either of you in feeding it.
If it were me I'd cancel the cheques, and text him briefly to tell him that. It's a security thing really, and if he won't reply to your texts you have every right to assume they've gone astray.
It seems a bit over the top for you to get no reply (rude) but still write him another cheque. You love him but you don't have to be a doormat. If he needs something he will contact you.
Can I also suggest all money for bills goes directly to the biller, not through your son? You can do this by direct transfer, and it's very easy to learn, so don't be afraid of calling your bank and going in for a lesson. It will help you so much.
I can really understand your anxiety about his welfare after the suicide episode but try to work on the idea that you can't control him. All the worrying in the world just tells him you don't have confidence in him. My mother used to worry all the time about us 4 adult kids. Did it help us? Not even a little bit, in fact it made things worse because then we had to worry about her worrying if you get my meaning. It also became infectious. What we would have appreciated was calm confidence that we would work our way through whatever was bothering us.
I hope he comes back to you in time, but don't feel obliged to chase after him. Frankly he's behaving like a real a**hole, and while it might be understandable there's no advantage to either of you in feeding it.
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