Poppet35

Hi, I've had the mother of exhausting weekends. My OH came home from a stint away working. We had a big old blow up before she left and things had been left hanging and we'd not really spoken. So we were both a little nervous about seeing each other but I made sure the house was spotless, that I'd got shopping and wot not, I planned and prepared a meal (which went uneaten) and made plans for a little fire outdoors together so we could talk and reconnect. The evening resulted in her drinking rather a lot.

To cut a long story short - she wants to end the relationship and I'm trying desperately to prevent that. Trouble is we have a lot of unresolved issues and it's really distressing to feel that the blame of the collapse of the relationship is being placed firmly on my shoulders. I know I have contributed to the problems in our relationship, I have tried to change, but never understood correctly, not heard her properly, not listened, not allowed her to have feelings. I've never managed to repair things, fix things, get the closeness back. I have tried, but clearly not enough, she however says I've not tried and I've destroyed everything including her.

She keeps saying she wants to end things and that by me telling her I'll change that I'm once again not listening to her and that I've said I'll change before (and I've desperately tried to change my behaviour over the years, how I am loving towards her, how I express my feelings, let her know she's valued, loved...). So I try and accept it and leaver her be, but she won't allow that. If I accept what she says (i.e. listening to her feelings that she wants it over) then I'm damned and if I try and apologise, suggest ways I can mend things, then I'm damned too. I'm damned if I don't and damned if I do. She says she doesn't want to talk, yet when I say ok, she wants to talk, she won't leave me be. If I don't talk I'm in the wrong, if I try and talk I'm in the wrong. She is fixated on talking about how I've destroyed her and everything she loves, whenever we have these chats it's always about what I've done to damage the relationship and sure I have damaged it but I've also taken responsibility and try desperately not to repeat the behaviour. Trouble is all these conversations happen when she's been drinking.

I know I can't be entirely to blame but it's frustrating and exhausting feeling that that is what she thinks. She doesn't want to mend things so I cannot understand how dredging up all the past is going to help either of us if it's not to work to a future.

I'm emotionally exhausted by it. I love her. But I've never managed to make her happy and perhaps it is me that has caused all the damage.

Sorry, had to get all that out. It probably makes no sense. I tried to stick to my "no talking if you've had a drink" but by the time she got home from work she'd already had a drink and we needed to talk. So I stepped over that boundary I set. And I did it the next day as well, and I let myself be drawn back into the discussion when I'd stepped away to protect myself. To stop repeating behaviour I know doesn't help.

Sorry

dandylion

poppet......you sound quite miserable.....tied up in knots because of the state of things. I can understand how emotionally drained you must be.....

for some clarification---was there ever a time when the marriage was "happy"....you say that she says that she never was?
You have destroyed her and everything that she loves?......everything..really?

It looks, to me, like you are using the detachment tool....but, it is hard when the person is drunk all the time.....

Of course, I don't know the nature of your relationship issues (aside from the drinking), but, it sounds, to me, like you are set up as a scapegoat, in many ways. That would m ake a very handy tool for her to use---that means that she can blame you for everything and take all the focus off of her and give her an excuse for drinking.....
(an alcoholic who is not in recovery NEEDS an "excuse")
I refer you to the article by Floyd P. Garett---"Excuses Alcoholics Make" and "The Alcoholic's Dilemma". You can find them by google search.

Under the current conditions....maybe this is as good as it is going to get.....

I fully understand that you are terrified of losing the relationship...and the fear of facing that possibility.....

dandylion

Poppet35

I feel so lost.
We were happy until we moved in together. And the happy part was because we'd spend weekends together, I'd drink a lot more than I ever had before, everything else was put on the backburner (you know grown up responsibilities and wot not) whilst we enjoyed each other's company. I drank way too much for my body and stopped when my tummy told me to and didn't pick it up again. I only drank because that was how it was - she drank so I drank with her.
We've had problems for 5 years since we moved in together. Nothing has ever been resolved and I know I have a part to play in that.
I still don't understand how I have destroyed everything she loves - I don't believe I have but she insists I have destroyed her and slagged off everything she holds dear.
She sees no issue in using the drink when she's stressed - she says it's the world she lives in.
She really didn't like it when I brought up the drinking - says we'd still have the problems even if she didn't. But every single, every single conversation about our relationship has involved her having had a drink.
Simply she says I am incapable of loving her. I moved myself and my kids to her home town, for her, the relationship would have ended had I not. My parents think I'm dotty to have done it but they accept my decisions. We've only been here 8 months and it's over.

I love her, I look at her and I know I love her but sometimes I look at her when she's drunk and think "yuck".
I know I can survive on my own. What I can't take is talking about all the past history between us if it's not going to help make a future for us, it seems futile and pointless but she insists it's not because she wants me to tell her why I've destroyed her.
All our conversations revolve around what I have done wrong or not done. When I try and give examples of how she has hurt me I have to clarify, and elaborate and things get twisted and taken wrongly. So I stopped saying anything.
I agree with the things she says about me...
Sorry

Hawkeye13

she is deflecting--instead of acknowledging her alcoholism is the core issue,
she's blaming you instead.

It is very hard to see when you're in the middle of the pain Poppet,
but this isn't at all "entirely your fault" but manipulation, pure and simple.

Notice how when she says I don't want to talk, and you respect that,
she won't leave you alone and talks at you anyway?
That's a good indicator and it is smart that you noticed it.

What are you doing to help yourself right now?
Nothing you could ever do, be, or say will "fix" her.
Your kids should not be growing up in this dysfunction--
think of them and their need for a normal childhood
if nothing else right now.

I'm sorry you are hurting so.

CentralOhioDad

Oh Poppet, we are living in a parallel universe! Your story is my life - welcome, brother! She wants to end it?? Good, let her go! I know I'm not supposed to say that, but a smooth, calm life sounds so much better than the emotional daily roller-coaster she has you on.

Come here, go away, I said come here, now go away! Yep, I get the same thing day after day! And why should she leave? You make things cozy for her at home. She'll never be happy with how you do it, and berate you the whole time, but she knows she has it good!

I get blamed for every problem in the marriage, and have gotten blamed for the rain falling, and it being either too hot/cold outside! Yep, that's how it is living with an A. You said it perfectly: "I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't". You will never make her happy, and it's not your job to make her happy - that's on her. Your OH and my AW are two peas in a pod.

I'll post more later when I can, but yes - being with an A is VERY, very draining, and is that the future that makes you happy? We need to learn how to stop them from taking up too much space in our heads - take back what's yours!!

I wish you all the best.

C-OH Dad

Poppet35

Oh I look back on messages I've sent my Mum, my sister, my friends. They say the same thing - "things are difficult between us", then they say "I've made some changes and things seemed to have settled down, things are happier" My Mum started saving my messages cos she could see a pattern.

I know I've contributed to the problems (it's not all the alcohol) but it's always me that seems to need to change. Me that doesn't love her enough, doesn't appreciate her enough, value her enough, want to be with her enough, give her a relationship.

And then my head turns on me and whispers "but she bought you such a thoughtful give for your birthday, but things were going to be so good when you moved to her hometown" and I feel bad, I'm told how much she's given me, valued me and I've never done the same, that instead I've destroyed her and everything she loves.

It's insidious in my head. I've put up with her threatening to leave me so often, perhaps that is why I don't accept it, she's threatened to kill herself. She tells me how ill all these problems are making her and how I'll be so pleased when she drops dead because "Oh my heart is hurting".

She told me she was planning to kill herself a couple years ago, that she'd make it look like an accident one night, I found her in our room with a knife to her throat. She said last night that she feels she needs to lose an arm or get blown up in a terrorist attack for me to take notice of her.

I know I can survive without her, I know I'll probably be happier, but it's the insidious nature of being told you're all at fault and how she's treated me so wonderfully that makes it so painful.

I've been begging her not to do this, not to end it, that I can change, that I will do anything and everything (I dread to imagine how pitiful I sound). I let myself get drawn back into discussions I've tried to remove myself from, I let her tell me I'm an iceberg that I make her feel cold, that I am cold. And then I apologise. I apologise.

The "I have nothing more to say" but "how dare you accept that and walk away" is crazy making.

She won't sleep in the bed - insists on sleeping on the floor despite her bad back - that's my fault because I won't sleep on the floor. (We don't have a spare room) I simply don't see the sense in having a crappy night's sleep on the floor, when one can perfectly easily sleep in a double bed separate from the other person.

Sorry, got going. God it's good to get stuff off my chest,

CentralOhioDad

^^^ "... that I can change, that I will do anything and everything.." Poppet - that's their manipulation, that's how they get in our heads and use us as their fodder and entertainment! You are taking too much of the blame for the issues. SHE IS DRINKING, period. She is manipulating you and making you run in circles. And what has she done to change?? Oh yeah - not a damn thing! And she won't, because she doesn't have to - she's put the focus and the blame smack dab on you and have made herself the victim.

"... she's treated me so wonderfully..." - really? If she was so wonderful, you wouldn't need to be here venting to us. I understand that it's tough at first not to see the motives and manipulations of the addict, but they are sooooo good at what they do and how they do it. It's subtle, it's slow, but they have us on a string and pull willingly according to their moods.

It took me a while to see it too, then I left SR and fell back into my old ways, but I'm back, reading again, and coming to my senses.

Peace,
C-OH Dad

Poppet35

My heart hurts, my head is full of thoughts about how to mend things. She is determined to end things yet wants to go over everything. She's still wearing the rings we both wear.

I'm not incapable of love. I love her. I just don't seem to do it right.

She says she only drinks cos she's unhappy and doesn't drink when she's away from me. But she's always drunk the whole time I've know her. Every evening she has drunk to a reasonable extent. Every day.

Ooof. I was so full of hope and determination on Sunday and now I feel lost.

ladyscribbler

You situation made me think of this article originally posted by forourgirls. There was a good discussion thread on it awhile ago, basically discussing how we fall into the trap of "working on things" trying to be perfect enough to have a relationship with while the alcoholic continues to drink and do whatever they want.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ut-i-dont.html

Ariesagain

She is addicted to alcohol. You didn't cause it and you can't fix it.

Please research codependency. As long as she can blame you and you buy into that, she can avoid acknowledging the reality of her own responsibility. She is emotionally abusing you, exploiting you, and manipulating you because it protects her addiction.

Working with a good therapist with experience in codependency and addiction could be very helpful for you.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Wisconsin

This is so, so true. During my latest go-round with STBXAH, when he declared, for the first time since I left him that he wants me back, I told him flat-out that I could have been the perfect wife and it still would not have been good enough for him.

Poppet, perhaps it's time to find some other things to focus on, rather than all the ways you can change to make your alcoholic, not-very-nice partner, want to stay in a relationship with you. But only a relationship that allows her to continue to behave horribly, of course, because any other type of relationship will not satisfy her.

CentralOhioDad

Poppet, I feel your pain, I really do. I was right where you are, but 4 years ago. You can't control it, you didn't cause, you can't cure it/her. You can't change her, and if you try to change for her, you will NEVER EVER get it right, but what you think she wants/needs will change depending on the mood of the moment.

You end up: wearing yourself out, becoming more confused, becoming more depressed, becoming 'not you' anymore. And guess what, in the end she won't care about you one bit - it was, is, and will be all about her and her addiction.

I know it's a lot to take in, and I'm sorry. But we're here for you - vent away.

You were full of hope and determination on Sunday because you thought you could come here and find out how to 'fix it all'. And instead, you're finding there is no fix for her, but you can fix yourself, and love yourself, and be good to yourself. Her path is hers, and hers alone. And no begging, pleading, etc., will change one bit of it.

We're here for you. Like I said, I really do know from where you're coming. I feel for you.

COD

SmallButMighty

I know you love your partner. I think she loves you too. Love alone does not make a relationship healthy. Nor is drinking the only reason a good relationship goes bad.

It doesn't matter who does the manipulating (my AXH and I were both guilty of this) it is unhealthy behavior. Perpetrated by desperate, unhealthy, unhappy people. It will NEVER fix anything.

My AXH would also play the suicide card.. straight up emotional blackmail. When you stop responding to it they stop using it as a tactic. Mine tried it once more after I had moved out when we were negotiating a seperation agreement. He was sitting here in my new home when he told me he wouldn't bother working for the rest of his life if I was going to take everything he would just end it. I knew what he meant so I looked him straight in the eye and said, "That kind of manipulative bull**** doesn't "EFFING" work on me anymore *His Name*!!!" He got up and walked out. He called me about 20 minutes later, I assume after consuming some vodka to calm his nerves and apologized by saying, " I was angry and I said something I shouldn't have, I didn't mean it, I'm sorry" We then settled our numbers. ( Which by the way he came out way ahead, I was never trying to "screw him over" as he so thought. I didn't want the money or the stuff, I wanted OUT)

Nothing you do causes her to drink. She is blame shifting like almost every alcoholic is apt to do. Mine sure did( and does) and so does every other alcoholic I know...unfortunately I know many. She may not even realize she is doing this, she may believe you are the cause of her unhappiness, but that is not true. Other people do not control our happiness... that is on each of us as individuals to control for ourselves.

I stayed in an unhappy, unhealthy marriage for several years. I did this based on: a past that had been very happy, the kids, the finances,the love, the vows, the home, the pets, the extended family.. the list of why I stayed was endless. But in the end, I was so sad, depressed, stressed and anxiety ridden. I was living in hell. I no longer trusted my spouse and knew I never could again. His alcoholism controled his every behaviour and he did not (does not) want to put in the effort to change HIMSELF. I was no longer willing to feed myself to his lying , thieving, manipulative demons. He never laid a hand on me or our children, or anybody ever, in anger. He is not a violent man sober or drunk. But that does not mean he didn't abuse me, he did. He battered my heart and emotions until I was a shell of myself. He took advantage of my willingness to forgive and that became a nasty pattern of chaos in our lives.

I chose to stay and put up with his crap for a long time. Until I didn't. It was a slow process but I finally decided that if he wasn't going to look after me the way I thought he should, then it was going to be up to me to look after me. After all.. I care about me, I care about my mental and emotional well being. I care about my dreams and desires, I care about what kind of life I want to live. I care about what quality of people I want to spend my time with. I care about living a healthy lifestyle. I care about following the laws and treating others with respect.... the fact I cared about those things meant nothing to him.

I am a happier, healthier person now that I get to live the life I want for me, free from his irrational alcoholic chaos. It wasn't easy getting here, but it was so worth it.

I hope you find some peace soon Poppet. Just be the best you, you can be and do it for you. The rest of the pieces will fall where they will.

*big hugs*

Poppet35

A week or so ago, I was so sure that the fact she drinks was a big problem (not the only problem granted).

But now my head is confuzzled - she's so sad, and hurt.

All I want to do is love her and show her I love her and I can't help but feel that if i'd listened and loved her things would be good between us.

If I hadn't put up walls and got upset as she told me how she was feeling, if I'd understood how I was hurting and neglecting her sooner.

I'm really confused, really really confused. To blame the booze seems wrong now that that wasn't it.

I can't really recall how we ended up here, can't recall how we ended up with her leaving for a spell. I can't recall how I felt then, can't recall what the problems were, why I was unhappy, why she was unhappy.

So now I'm being faced with having not fixed the hurt and loved her, that it's over. I'm questioning everything I've thought, and said now.

I must sound so stupid

CentralOhioDad

First off; You are NOT stupid! You're confused, you hurt, you're in an emotional upheaval - anything but stupid.

All the love, support, listening, cowering, begging, pleading, and hoping - will get her to change - it MUST be her decision, and her decision alone. I'm not saying she doesn't love you, but if she was as committed to you as you to her, why would she inflict so much pain on you? One, because you let her (albeit subconsciously), and she knows no other way to deal with things than to trash you and make you feel like sh*t.

Keep reading the posts around here, you'll find out that many have been through the exact same emotions and pain. And one day it will hit you that, yes you have your own things to fix, you are incapable of fixing her. You are a good person, don't forget that - however that's what the A wants, they want you to become miserable and feed into their ego, and you lose who and what you are.

CODad

hopeful4

One day you will come to a place that it will be enough for you to realize you did not cause it, nor can you control it. You will come to a place that you realize that her placing blame on you is simply deflecting b/c she is mentally unwilling to accept that blame herself. When she says she wants to end it, believe her. My signature discusses that the hardest thing to do is accept an apology you never received. That means acceptance. It is hard to obtain, but keep reaching for it. It's worth it once you get there.

Hugs to you. I know it's so hard.

Ariesagain

It WAS the booze.

Were there other issues? Sure. Every couple has them. But the huge difference is that mature non-addicted adults both work to address them and take responsibility for their part.

Again...it's not you, it's the addiction.

Please look at some other threads here...sadly, this isn't a unique situation by any means.

Sending you a hug.

Wisconsin

Agreed. Don't let her obscure the role that drinking has paid. She wants to unload all the blame onto you, so that she can continue to drink.

As yourself: are you willing to live the rest of your life with her exactly as she is at this moment? How about as the drinking gets worse, and her disease gets worse (which it will, if she is not sober and working a recovery program)? Ask yourself WHY do you want to maintain this relationship? Is it because of how it "used to be?" Because of how you "know it has the potential to be?" The healthier you get, the easier it will be for you to focus on how things ARE, right now. Living your life with the hope that someone will change in the future, or clinging to memories of the past, will leave you resentful and bitter. And you will miss out on so much joy that is out there TODAY.

bluelily

Poppet,
The thing that strikes me is that you apologize at the end of your posts. While there really is no need to. In fact it makes no sense at all.
I´m guessing you´ve gotten used to apologize in this relationship (even if there is nothing you´ve done wrong!) and it has become a habit. And for her, it has become a habit to blame you instead of really looking at what is going on.

You say you don´t remember how you´ve come to this situation, who did what, why she ended up wanting to break up. This shows you that there is absolutely no logic in the dynamics of the relationship. Whenever a relationship goes sour, or someone wants to end it, you understand WHY. But clearly, things are very strange now. Well, this is what As do. They manipulate until you feel like you´re the one who is insane, the one who is guilty of whatever made the relationship end. It is very confusing for the non-A because it is simply so unfair. You would probably never confuse someone else in this way, right? Not so for the A. They have a way of not respecting anything that comes in the way of their addiction - no morality, principles, empathy towards others.

I saw a clear shift in my XAbf when it came to defending his alcoholism. In the beginning he was the sort of person who would never take advantage financially of someone else nor even ask for a loan. He told me how, from a young age, he never accepted any help from his parents, even while his siblings did and still do. He would never let me pay when we went out, not even for my own share.
But then he lost his job and savings and decided his principles didn´t matter at all. So he asked me continually for "loans". I´m sure he has asked lots of other people as well. All this from a person who was too proud and independent and blablah to bother others for money.
Of course, this money was mainly for alcohol.
The terrible thing about this is that whenever I asked for my money back, or told him I could not lend him such large amounts (I´m a single mom), he never said what a normal person says in those situations. Things like "I´m so sorry, I´ll return it asap" or "don´t worry, I´ll manage". In fact, once when I asked him for my money back and explained I hadn´t been able to pay my health insurance, he just said Oh, I already paid mine.
Really, wtf???
Worse still, he always always tried to make me feel guilty for asking for MY money back. It was actually quite insane. He was the one who should be feeling guilty that I had no health insurance because of him, not me.
Do you see how this can escalate?
In the end, they can make you feel guilty about anything.

I don´t know what your particular relationship issues have been but seeing how As relate to their loved ones I am certain there is no need whatsoever for you to feel guilty. The things you describe - making sure there is food, preparing dinner, trying to prove to her you do love her - all sound lovely in a partner. The things she complains about - that you´re cold and unresponsive - are very vague and don´t make much sense.
The only thing that would make sense is that she is afraid you will end up making her stop drinking. And that would be the only reason she wants to end the relationship.

It was a great shock for me when XAbf decided he wanted to break up with me. And it happened when I realized he was an A, that there was nothing I could do about it and that I felt better when I didn´t see him.
He didn´t want to change the slightest thing in him to make the relationship with me work. And that really hurt. It made me realize how things had lasted not because we were both commited but because I had adapted myself to his wants and wishes.
I hope you find the strength to stand up for yourself and take care of YOU for a change.

Wisconsin

bluelily is so right. The line that divides what is acceptable and unacceptable moves over time with an alcoholic. Five years ago, my STBXAH *never* would have driven under the influence of any alcohol at all. Four years ago, he *never* would have driven drunk. Three years ago, he *never* would have driven drunk for more than a couple of miles. Right now, he would *never* drive drunk with our son in the car. The changes are sometimes slow and hard to detect when you are only living in the crisis of the moment.

As for apologizing, I leave you with my own craziness, at the beginning of my STBXAH's relapse (which has now been going on for over five years). I snooped through his phone (another indication of my own craziness) and found evidence that while working out of town, he had gotten a woman's phone number in a bar, sent her one non-sexual text message, and attempted to call her once. I got very upset at him, but within 15 minutes I was begging HIM not to leave ME, and begging HIM to tell ME what I had to do to make him stay.