honeypig

I'd like to share something I just read over in the "Newcomers" forum:

Too often people try to fix themselves before they quit drinking. It's like trying to figure out why the fire started before putting it out. Quit drinking, clear your head, then work on yourself as a person.

First of all, this caught my eye b/c it is XAH's thought pattern to a T. Maybe he sincerely believes it, maybe it's an excuse--I don't know. XAH has said to me many times that he's "working on" quitting drinking. My answer has usually been "what's to work on? As long as you're drinking, you're not 'working on' not drinking! To stop drinking, you need to stop drinking!" I had a pretty clear understanding that he needed to stop the behavior, get a clear head, and THEN dig deeper.

But what made me think about it more deeply was that it's also my thought pattern in many cases. I feel I need to figure things out, understand everything, and have a plan that covers every possible contingency before I can make any changes in the behaviors that hold me back. I'm just as guilty of "working on" X, Y or Z while still actively engaging in X, Y or Z.

Is there a difference in these two things? Or are they the same? I ask b/c I often have trouble drawing the line that has perfectionism/being too hard on myself on one side of it and making excuses/spiritual and mental laziness on the other side. Your thoughts and input are appreciated.

readerbaby71

I "worked" on it for years. It doesn't work at all.

honeypig

RB, your reply made me laugh, just b/c it's so direct and so honest! No mincing words here!

Thank you.

Praying

I think this holds true for everything. I have a close friend whose wife has been openly cheating on him for 6 months and not planning to give up her boyfriend. He's miserable and "working on" getting divorced...but hasn't filed anything or taken any steps...just complaining because he's so miserable. As someone who's already gone through that, it kills me watching him! I actually had to back away a little from it. In my opinion, "working on" anything means nothing. "I'm doing X as a first step with Y coming next, with an ultimate goal of Z" IS.

MIRecovery

It is like thinking about dieting. All the thinking in the world is not going to cause you to lose an ounce

LexieCat

Weeelll, to be fair, just about every major life decision involves a certain amount of pre-contemplation. You roll it around in your head, try it on for size, think about all the positives and negatives. I agree that you can stay stuck in that phase for too long (to the point where it really does become an excuse for inaction), but it's still part of the process for most people, I think.

AnvilheadII

whether you jump into something feet first OR take time and really think it thru, it still is probably going to end up different than originally thought. and each of those "starts" have some degree of "success" AND "failure" as life often has other ideas.

however, if we are attempting true CHANGE, nothing is going to happen until we get to the ACTION part of the plan.

dandylion

honeypig......to me...I think that fear may be at the crux of all of it...for the alcoholic and the loved one, as well...when we are contemplating change, but dragging our feet, at the same time......
It is l ike we are in a fist fight with fear........

dandylion

honeypig

Thank you all for your insights and thoughts thus far; all are useful and much appreciated, my friends.

LifeRecovery

I have been thinking about this post all day.

Yes I am guilty of ruminating and naval gazing to the point of keeping myself stuck.

On the other hand though sometimes my changes are so miniscule that I don't see them....until a big piece falls into place or something big happens and I react to a big deal in a certain way.

I have to be careful because sometimes I WANT such big change, yesterday of myself that I shame/blame and keep myself stuck in that way also.

Thanks for the question, more to ponder!

honeypig

Yes, LifeRecovery, that is exactly it, and goes right to the heart of what I'm asking. On the one hand is the Scylla of jumping right into action, only doing two of the 3 A's and skipping the "acceptance" part, and on the other hand is the Charybdis of "ruminating and navel gazing", as you said.

I guess I'm especially chewing on this b/c the LOLG post for today was on the theme of balance, and I'm wondering where the balance point lies w/this particular issue. Is it a moving target, changing day by day, and all I can do is take my best shot at it? Or is there a rule of thumb or an abiding principle that can help me follow that righteous path?

DesertEyes

I've been guilty of "working" on things. I spent a couple of years "working" on a marriage where I was the only one acting like it _was_ a marriage. My ex had quit the marriage and was running around with her b/f while I was "working" on getting her into marriage counseling.

I like the line about "Nothing changes if nothing changes." Anything that is going on around _inside_ my head is not making changes in the real world _outside_ my head. If _my_ behavior is not changing, then _I_ am not changing.

The specific details of how I go about changing my behavior are different for the various challenges I have faced in life. As others have said, sometimes planning and evaluating alternatives _is_ an action item. Sometimes not. I think this is the area where "rigorous honesty" is required, something that nobody else can tell me or show me.

My other fav line on this subject is "There is do, or do not. There is no try."

Mike

honeypig

Thanks for your input, Yoda!

DesertEyes

* lol *

I do kinda look like him. Short, bald and and a little overweight

Mike

Wisconsin

The idea of "trying my decision" was brand new to me when a friend suggested it a couple of years ago. I have ALWAYS been guilty of over-analysis. Knowledge is power, right? The more you know! But I would spin my wheels endlessly, certain that I needed more information, and then still more, before I could act. Trying my decision on for size was a transformative idea for me, and played a big part in me being able to move from "working on it," to "doing it."

honeypig

Yes, to me too! This is not an earthshaking thing, but I had been thinking I would like a cordless mower, maybe--easier to start, less noise...

I saw one on craigslist, checked the price new, checked online reviews, and went to see it. All seemed good, so I bought it and will try it when things dry out around here. But in the interim, several people have pointed out downsides to it, and now I'm second-guessing myself, "oh, crap, was that a mistake? What if it was?"

I talked to my brother on the phone today and told him all this. Bless his heart, he said "and so if you don't like it, put it back on craigslist! Consider that you rented it and now you're returning it!"

What a revelation--I could try it out and see if it works! And if not, I can end the relationship! Granted, it's only a lawnmower, but hey, it's a beginning, right?

Thanks, bro.

FireSprite

I've been thinking about this...... and I know I always ramble off on these types of threads so apologies upfront.

First, I do believe that there's a BIG difference between being an overthinker & being in denial about your addiction. If a person is trying to fix themselves before quitting drinking, they're really trying (even subconsciously) to find a way to justify keeping their DOC in their lives & avoid stopping altogether. There is nothing to work ON because you can't see what you are numbing with your toxins.

I think when people use this phrase "working on it" in this sense, it typically means that they are working on accepting that there even IS a problem to be addressed - not actually working directly ON anything at all. A lot of time it's a semantic game that we play with OURSELVES - it sounds like it equates to a lot of action but in reality it's a lot of nothing. I know that for my husband, "working on it" means "thinking about thinking about it".... and the thought stops. right. there. So, it's really nothing at all. But it makes him feel good & proactive to say he's working on it. The truth is he's way under-thinking it.

I worked on detachment until I had my AHA moment with it, saw it clearly one day & could identify it going forward. Once I got it, I stopped working on it & started putting it TO WORK for me, but sometimes I still get it wrong, lol.

OVERthinking though- that's thinking about it so much, from so many angles, for every possible contingency that you talk yourself into & out of your opinion over & over. IMO - this is part of where our internal trust plays such a huge role. When I trust that I can make a mistake & live to tell the story, I can make an educated decision & just let it go once that decision is made knowing that I did the best with what I had.

In terms of recovery I equate "working on it" to an evolutionary process where, as we know better, we do better & as we grow, we KEEP finding out more/doing better in a repeated pattern. That includes falling down in the process, however you describe it - (relapse, terminal uniqueness, outright defiance, whatever) & getting back up again.

Like in your example HP - if you had experience with buying/analyzing cordless mowers in the past, you likely wouldn't 2nd guess yourself as much having been down that road many times. You have a certain comfort level in your previous successes/failures & a "worst-case" thought in your head, somewhat. But the FIRST time you go through that process, O.M.G..... nerve-wracking!! How do you know what you don't know?? And in this day & age there is NO END to the volumes of info available on almost any topic online so you could find info to support your decision either way. And yet, none of that can ever tell you exactly what is right FOR YOU.

I've shared this before - a best friend of mine always teased me when I stood on the edge of decision debating it for too long - "What's going to happen? Are they going to take away your birthday?" It makes me laugh because it's ridiculous, but it reminds me to put it into perspective.... what IS the very WORST thing that can happen as a result of this decision and can I live with that?

theuncertainty

I love that.

honeypig

FireSprite, thanks so much for your well-thought-out post. I appreciate the time and effort that went into that!

Like you, it has been my experience that "working on it" generally means doing anything but actually working on it, and I am equally as guilty as XAH or anyone else if I'm honest about it, I guess. It DOES mean "setting it on the side and thinking about thinking about it."

I agree w/Lexie that it's a necessary part of the process, but it's also quite a long way from actually taking action, and I think it's important to know and understand that, too. Is "working on it" appropriate to the problem/situation at hand, or is it time/past time to be actually doing something? Sometimes one, sometimes the other, I guess.

I like the way you make a distinction between "working on" something and putting something "to work for you." It seems accurate and true. And certainly the part about reaching farther, falling down, getting back up, repeat, has to be true if we are going to continue this growth process (just ask Brene Brown!).

This thread is a keeper and I'm sure I'll refer to it again.

BTW, I tried out the lawnmower yesterday and there are pros and cons. I will continue to use it and see whether the pros or cons win out in the end--and I won't stress about it, I'll just let "more be revealed!"

Have I mentioned lately how incredibly grateful I am for all of my fellow travelers here at SR? And again

RocketQueen

FWIW, in my experience, "working on it" was just something said as an attempt to shut down the conversation and get you off their back without making a full commitment. Kinda like the whole "I'll do it tomorrow" mentality... but as we all know, "tomorrow" never comes.