sauerkraut

I haven't posted in awhile as things have been fairly calm. I left my AH in November; since then we've been sharing custody of our 3 kids, and he does Soberlink--so far without a positive test--3 times/day when he has them.

We're working our way through the divorce with a mediator, but now a question arises, and I wonder what those of you with similar experiences would say.

He wants to stay in our house with the children until the oldest 2 go to college (3 years), at which point we'd sell the house. Right now he could refinance to give me some of the equity, and get my name off the lease, so I could get a loan and buy a small place of my own. But our newly remodeled and expanded house is and will remain our main asset. We live in a very expensive real estate market and our house is worth a lot. A lot a lot.

I don't want to cause any unnecessary trauma to our children. But I'm very skeptical about the wisdom of remaining financially and legally entangled with my AH. He doesn't even profess not to be drinking, just that he doesn't drink when he has our children.

Today I found out that his car was involved in an incident in early March (he said it was vandalism; the insurance report says collision). At the end of March, he was mugged. I've ordered the police report to see if inebriation was a factor, which seems likely. He was taken to the hospital in an ambulance, and then, for some reason, he claimed "charitable status," which, ironically, is how I found out what happened. (He has insurance, savings, and a good job, so I can only guess that he claimed to be a charity case to avoid filing an insurance claim that I would see.)

I also know he's lying to his doctor about his drinking, I think to scrub the "alcoholism" diagnosis from his medical record, and, incidentally, he denies that he smokes, to the doctor, too. Which he does.

So, he lied to the hospital staff and his doctor, and he's only telling me what he wants me to know or can't avoid admitting when confronted.

No sensible person would have a business relationship, like owning a home together, with such a person, right? Yet, for some reason, my attorney thinks maybe I should take the deal, to get a substantial sum of money without capital gains taxes, to let the girls remain in their home, and so that in a few years, if the house continues to appreciate, I will do well financially.

I'm afraid he could get in an accident and a claim could be made against his asset, which would be my asset, too. I also don't like the uncertainty of being involved with him any more than is necessary for the sake of our children. He's not telling me what he's up to, I don't want to feel like I have to snoop, and when I do snoop, I can see that he's continuing to make bad choices and to lie about them. It's like being married to him again--wondering what the heck he's doing, trying to keep myself on my side of the street, yet unable to ignore the reality that he's making choices that hurt our whole family.

When I emailed him my concerns, he said that his alcoholism is "your [my] narrative" that he wouldn't even bother addressing. Gee, thanks. If he had said he's in recovery, making great progress, attending meetings, etc. then working together to keep the kids in the house might make sense. But not to financially extricate myself from an active alcoholic who remains in denial?

Thoughts?

AdelineRose

My first reaction was if the children are small then it would be nice for them to still have something that is not changing in their lives. If the children are 13 and above, then I think the argument loses a lot of it's merit. I lost my father at 14, my sister was 12, and my brother 10 and if we could handle a death then young teenagers and teenagers can handle a move. (Nevermind living with an A is far more detrimental to their health then a move, so if your AH is so worried about the stress on them, that is what he should be worrying about IMO)

The further I read in your post however, I became more and more positive that I would force the sell of the home and take my half and let that be another chapter closed in the chaos that is dealing with him. Money makes people do crazy things without an addiction, what if he starts taking out leins or loans or ANYTHING on the house? What if like you said he gets sued and they go after the house? Also, who is even saying he won't keep pushing off selling for a long time or put it at a price where it will never sell just to be spiteful?

If he is constantly lying to hospitals, doctors, to you, etc. then chances are he is going to continue to deteriorate and then it is only a guess what will happen. Will not selling right now be a thing that is always in the back of your mind making you worry? Will not selling be a constant "Man I should have"? If he wants to keep the house so badly I would demand to be completely bought out and be done with it, people do that all the time.

I hope whatever decision you makes brings you a least some peace.

sauerkraut

Thanks, ARose. Our kids are 13, 14, and 9. That's a great point you make about the fact that clearly his drinking puts more stress on our children than whether or not they remain in the same home.

By the way I just received the police report on the mugging. As I suspected, he and his friend were "extremely intoxicated," which was probably a factor in their being mugged (standing on a street corner, phones out, after midnight).

Thanks for the hopes for my peace of mind. Yes, that's exactly what I'm seeking.

Also, I'm sorry about the loss of your dad; that must have been very difficult for your whole family.

AdelineRose

Do what makes you have a peace of mind, but in my humble opinion 14, 13, and 9 and not ages that require not changing environments and if they are having a bit of a tough time then counseling will prob. do a lot much more help then staying in a home part time. (Nevermind that it is a long time before the youngest would be going off to college..it isn't a year or two and hell even in a year a lot could happen nvm 10)

Our guts are always right! He is trying to guilt trip you into letting him stay in the house for 10 more years yet he is getting arrested for being drunk on a street cornor! Don't give him the power to change how you feel or to do what is best for you, he is surely doing what he pleases. He is a liar, manipulative, in denial, and very selfish.

I have found making lists of pros and cons for situations help me see the answer I truly know is right but that only one or two feeble things for it are stopping me from doing it even though the anti list is hugeee

FeelingGreat

I think that parents sometimes put far too much importance on houses' meaning to their children. I've seen friends make bad financial decisions based on the fact that the children 'love' the house, only to find they never look back when they eventually leave.

I was shifted around a bit when young because of my father's job, and overwhelmingly it was the school that mattered; I never gave the house a second thought. If your kids still attend the same school, I think they'll be ok.

Put your financial future very high in your thinking because poverty is no joke, and it can affect the children negatively as well. If there's a risk staying as co-owner with your XAH, then take it very seriously. From what you say about the scrapes he's gotten into in a short period, the insurance, job etc may not be forever, at which point your financial health will become even more important.

Be prepared for a bit of nastiness from XAH, and even the children. You may have to tough it out because, even if they don't understand, you have to act as a responsible adult.

Hawkeye13

I agree that once your name if off of the place, he could run
up huge debt using it as an asset, which I would not risk
with someone in active addiction.

LexieCat

You lawyer is telling you what makes financial/legal sense from his standpoint. Your instincts about selling the house are based on your emotional sense, based on what you know about this person (whom you know much better than your lawyer does). Sounds to me like you're willing to sacrifice some potential future money for present peace of mind. I think that's eminently reasonable. Listen to your gut. The kids will adjust. Take the money and run.

Ariesagain

Sell. He's no one to entrust with the care of your largest financial asset and there's no guarantee the house will continue to appreciate, especially if he's taking care of it.

There's also every possibility he'll find a new enabler, move her in, and then she may well refuse to budge in three years.

You and your kids need a fresh start in a safe and happy home.

honeypig

sauerkraut, I heard echoes from my own life here. XAH also lied to doctors (as well as me) about smoking and drinking. I also feared financial repercussions should he get in a car accident or have extensive health issues, since the house and land is the only serious asset we had (and "serious" is a relative term--the place is worth well under half of what the surrounding new construction is, but still far more than anything else I own).

Before we were divorced but after I'd separated our bank accounts, he had a couple of health issues that he got the pleasure of paying for himself (he has insurance, but there is still the deductible and then the 20%). After we divorced, he was involved in an apparent hit-and-run as a pedestrian, resulting in an ER visit, a 2-1/2-day hospital stay, surgery to pin and set a smashed elbow, and subsequent PT--again, insured but I'm certain his financial responsibility was not an insignificant amount. A hospital stay of any length is far more expensive than we imagine.

I am mighty glad I dodged the bullet on both of those. I think your concerns about AH getting into expensive trouble are totally valid.

I've read many, many stories here about how happy people's children have been after moving out of an alcoholic home and how surprised the parent was to see that the brick-and-mortar home was not nearly as important to the kids as the peace and happiness in the new place. I get it about folks wanting to provide stability for their kids, but I think the important kind of stability comes from having a sane, loving, caring parent much more than from living in a particular house.

Wishing you well in making this decision, sauerkraut!

hopeful4

Well, I learned my lesson in this manner. Two years ago I divorced. X signed a quit claim deed on the house, however, he did not force me to refi. I stayed in the house and fought for it dearly so as not to move my kids from our home. He then remarried, his wife threw a fit that he was still on the loan, and I had to quickly get his name off the loan. It caused me a lot of trouble.

More so, it caused me to have all of this interaction with him and his wife which set my own anxiety through the roof. My lesson learned is that I am so so happy to not have any financial ties to my X husband. He has no reason to contact me which does not involve our children. Make him either get the funds together to buy you out now, or sell it. That's just my .02

You also have the issue of the liability of the home, making sure he pays the insurance and taxes on time, that he up keeps the home, etc. As his alcoholism progresses, he may not take care of things the way he should. Just food for thought.

Stuff is just stuff. It's the relationships that kids need. When I was going through my divorce initially, I essentially forgave an entire year of child support so my X could stay in his nice apartment and not live in some slum because I wanted my kids to have a nice place to stay when they were w/him, and he had lost his job and had very limited funds. A lot of people think I was foolish for that, but I did it for my kids, not him.

It sounds like he is in a place right now that he would be able to afford something decent if he sells and has to find new housing. That is all I would really be concerned with.

Hugs. I know it's hard.

Refiner

I have not read the other input do I don't bias mine. My first thought is GET OUT NOW. Are the dollar signs really worth it in the long haul? It's just a matter of time it all catches up to him (even criminally - what he did at the hospital is called FRAUD) and he's already getting police reports and having collisions and you haven't even been apart for very long. You know all about the downward spiral, and he's definitely on it. Get your cut now, get your OWN little cozy place, the kids will adjust.

Bekindalways

Saurkraut, I keep thinking about your lawyer's advice which probably makes total sense if you took out the alcoholism; however, the alcoholism changes everything and even if you told your lawyer about it, he/she may not be able to comprehend what this means in the long run.

atalose

I’d sell now for a few reasons. One, you won’t be financially tied to him and his possible future behaviors won’t destroy your financial future. And two, in this political climate year with elections in Nov. your very expensive piece of real estate may not stay as expensive as it is right now.

dandylion

sauerkraut......I imagine your lawyer is good at lawyering......but, may know next to nothing about the nature of alcoholism.
I have found that most people don't.....unless they have had a personal or good reason to learn.......

dandylion

Refiner

There's a 10 yr old boy genius out there (I mean Einstein level IQ) and while he's not actively "predicting", months ago he said 3 things would happen: 1) Apple sales, stock, and worth would fall for the first time ever (it just happened), 2) Trump would become President (not that he wanted him to), and 3) the US economy would collapse like we've never seen it before.

maia1234

S,
My 2 cents!!

I work with a women who's brother in-law got in a car accident and died. He had been separated from his wife for over 4 years. He had even bought her a home of her own. He died at age 47 and did not have a will so the "spouse" received the 2.3 million dollar life insurance policy, his home and everything in the home, including the family pictures.

But........ There is 7 lawsuits against his estate to a tune of about 55 million dollars as people were severely injured in the car accident. This will take years and years to settle and the grieving "widow" has to deal with all of it. (even though she couldn't stand him)

Please cut ties and move on. You never know what could happen and what you would be held accountable for, especially dealing with an addict.

Ariesagain

And then the 10-year-old "boy genius" resumed practicing making fart noises with his armpits.

Rumors always abound in times of change...remember the year 2000? And then there was the Mayan end of the world...two years ago.

Finance 101 states that certain money today is almost always worth more than possible money later.

redatlanta

Well in my former life I worked in Bankruptcy and Foreclosure so my advice is very cut and dry...I spent too many times with a crying, hysterical Ex flattened by the knowledge that their divorce decree doesn't supersede a contract. I handled cases of people whom had been divorced 20 years getting calls from a mortgage company looking for thousands of dollars, and being tied into the bankruptcy of a former spouse.

So the scenario you being you go on with your life and accumulate your own expenses then EX gets axed from his job, or hurt, outta work and outta money and an alcoholic to boot???
NO THANKS.

I wouldn't quit claim anything to ANYONE (ever) but certainly not when my name is on a mortgage to the property. You can't do squat in that situation but sit on the sidelines and watch it all go to hell.

I don't care if the market could be better in two years, it could also be worse. There is no guarantee that the current economy couldn't or wouldn't tank. Get your name off the note, and sell the property. Done and Done!

Readreadread

When you are divorced and when you want him to sell the house, you may have to go back to court to court to get him to do so.... I agree with many people, cut your ties, it will bring peace to you.

Refiner

Actually he's been busy getting degrees, going to math camps, and managing his portfolios. But whatever 🙄. My point was that you can't count on the old school thinking that today's assets continue to skyrocket in value.