Wisconsin

Today I told my STBXAH that I am seeing somebody, and that my gentleman friend and I are slowly starting the process of meeting each others' kids. STBXAH and I always agreed that we would give each other the opportunity to meet a romantic partner who will be spending time with our DS.

He was not happy about it, but that's his reaction and he is responsible for his reaction. This conversation was brief, and happened mid-afternoon. Around dinnertime, he texted me and asked me if I would come by to talk. I had to take my DD and her friend somewhere, so I stopped by STBXAH's place on the way.

He was, not surprisingly, very intoxicated. The whole thing was very reminiscent of our conversation on Christmas Eve. He was highly emotional and crying. This kind of behavior isn't much a part of his cycle; he is not an alcoholic who regularly bursts into tears and tries to manipulate in that manner.

I am very proud of how I handled everything today. I repeated my feelings on certain matters. I refused to answer questions about my relationship with my new gentleman friend, saying that nothing about that is STBXAH's business unless it has a direct impact on DS. While I'm proud of how I handled it, I am emotionally exhausted now. It is so grueling to watch that behavior. This is only the third time he has acted this way, and each time, it's hard because it is the only time he has ever given even the tiniest indication that he comprehends the damage his disease has done. I haven't cared for my own sake for a long time, but it breaks my heart for DS. His father will just continue to deteriorate, and while I know better than to pin my hopes STBXAH getting sober for my sake, I still get my hopes up for DS's sake.

After repeating myself again on my feelings on the end of our marriage, I told him I will not discuss these matters with him any more. I told him that for my own emotional well-being, I can't keep allowing myself to get sucked back into endless conversations about "what went wrong." I also told him (for the second time since I moved out) that should he ever choose to re-engage with AA, that I will be cheering him on from the sidelines and that I will be accommodating and flexible with regard to DS's schedule to maximize the number of meetings STBXAH can attend. Then I hugged him, and left.

Now I know I need to implement a firm boundary on this. I was not expecting a repeat of our Christmas Eve conversation, and so I never spent much time thinking about whether I needed some boundaries on this kind of thing. Clearly I do.

Bekindalways

Hey Wisconsin. It sure sounds like a tough conversation. It does sound like you have a good handle on the process of setting boundaries.

Big hug to you!

Liveitwell

W, sending hugs. I know how hard this stuff is. Even when you have done it before, it's still hard each time. Firm boundaries is right!

Hugs and peace to you tonight.

redatlanta

Sounds like he was comforting himself in belief that "one day" you might get back together. Or, perhaps he is just now grieving the loss.

It is sad to me that he is still asking "what went wrong". Really? Good grief.

Wisconsin

Red, that's just it! At no point since I left has he ever given any indication, through words or actions, that he had any desire to get back together. For YEARS before I left, he made it clear that he was miserable in our marriage. Yes, I know that addicts do and say crazy things, but I honestly don't think he has been harboring secret desires for reconciliation.

However, I DO think that he never thought I would really leave. The fact that I am now seeing someone is a reminder that I actually left him, and that I am not planning to sit in a holding pattern where he is concerned. I think it is 100% ego for him, and if he was holding on to hope that we would get back together, it isn't because he wants a real relationship with me. It's because he is not really capable of accepting that I left, and that I left because of his drinking and how crazy his drinking made me.

Anyway, all future attempts to rehash this stuff will be shut down IMMEDIATELY. I was able to get a decent night's sleep, and my emotional exhaustion from yesterday has subsided.

Thank you all for your never-ending loving support in my recovery. Truly and honestly, I would not be where I am today without all of you.

hopeful4

Well, you have told him, and now leave it at that. My X becomes weepy like this when he drinks sometimes. It can be quite stressful. If he drinks enough it goes from this to angry sometimes too. My girls and I have learned to stay far away from him under either circumstance. It's a sad reality, that is for sure.

It sounds like your boundaries were clear, that is great. Keep on moving forward!

dandylion

Wisconsin.......we loved ones see alcohol as the problem.....while, the alcoholic sees alcohol as the solution...
I think that is a big part of why the alcoholic finds it so puzzling that we would be so upset...and, actually LEAVE them!

dandylion

Wisconsin

That is so very true, Dandy. I did feel like it was an interaction where I felt comfortable enough (i.e., he was not raging at me) to say a few things to him. I apologized him for being a crazy co-dependent person, and for trying to control and manipulate him for so long--made my 12 step amends on that front. I told him that I cannot even imagine what it must be like to carry around the pain that he carries from a brutally abusive childhood, and from having to be so far away from our DS for long periods of time. And I told him that I am very aware he will get sober again if and when he decides to get sober...and not a moment sooner. And yes, I did tell him that he has lots of reasons to struggle and be depressed, and every right to handle his depression how he chooses, but that some day perhaps he will consider other ways to "treat" his depression other than with alcohol, which is a depressant. And then I zipped my lips, because I could have fallen very quickly back down the codie hole and lectured him for HOURS about how I know so much better than him what he should do with his life. Old habits die hard.

Liveitwell

W-lady, word for word above exactly. I made my amends to my ex while we were still married-and meant every word. I can't begin to fathom my exs abusive childhood-I have some understanding of how he felt by what he shared with me during our marriage. As our marriage counselor told him, he's still loving and reacting to life as the scared abused child, vs being an adult. That's his battle, not mone, as none of my words or lectures or books or anything I DID helped him.

I was a nutty codependent too and most definitely lectured him about his life choices. Not who I am or want to be....not going down that road again either! Habits are hard to break....I think you handled yourself incredibly well. I hope he gets help someday, true help.

atalose

How about your boundary be something like......................when my ex is....

I will not engage in any conversation with him and I will immediately hang up the phone or drive away because I will then just be talking to myself anyway.

Wisconsin

I am comfortable with my boundaries.

FireSprite

How incredibly sad, W. I wonder if, while he wasn't necessarily holding on to the expectation that you might rekindle your relationship, he might have simply never thought ahead to what "Moving On" meant for You. It's easy to believe that he's only-ever so focused on himself & his own needs that he never even considered that you even HAVE needs or wants.....

The way I read this, you're putting your recovery work to good use. You're recognizing the quacking, seeing it for what it is & not getting drawn into old patterns (or extracting yourself once you realize you have crossed that line).

I respect the heck out of all of you that have to co-parent under these conditions...... it makes my breath catch in my chest to think about having to deal with an active Ex. (But in truth I know we are only ever a relapse away from this being my reality)

Wisconsin

In some ways I am very, very "lucky." My STBXAH may bluster from time to time about how he would spend every day with our DS if he could, his actions demonstrate that he knows his ability to be DS's primary caregiver is basically zero. So far, anyway, he has self-regulated fairly well in terms of not biting off more than he can chew when it comes to the time he spends with DS. He may couch his request to swap days or reduce a planned weekend visit to half a weekend in other terms, but I've attended this rodeo enough to know what is going on, and to be grateful that we are not subjected to the kind of emotional terrorism that so many here endure (I'm thinking especially of WTBH).

Don't get me wrong; I am fully prepared to jump into Mama Bear mode as this disease progresses. For now, though, the co-parenting piece of our interaction has been going decently.

lizatola

I'm sorry for you son, as well, as I am going through the same thing with my XAH and my son. It's hard, I know. Sending you lots of hugs and support today!

hopeful4

W....it's good that he will admit his own limitations, that in and of itself is a HUGE blessing. I hope he continues at least in that aspect.

Wisconsin

Thanks, all. I got another phone call tonight. I made it clear at the outset that I am not willing to continue to rehash "what went wrong." Then STBXAH hit me with his first EVER request that I take him back. I admit that it shocked me. This has not been part of his pattern at all, and his actual behavior over the past three years has indicated, unequivocally, that he has no desire to be married to me. He flip-flopped back and forth between insisting that I should give him another chance because I behaved badly too and he is willing to give ME another chance (*eyeroll*), and him seeming to acknowledge how much more damaging his treatment of me was. I reiterated my main points about why a reconciliation is impossible: that while I openly acknowledge my own role in our toxic dynamic, that he would never, ever convince me that my behavior rose to the level of his abuse of me, and that I cannot move beyond that. That we have vastly different ideas of what went on in our marriage, and on the impact of his drinking. And that, quit simply, I am unable and unwilling to be in any kind of a relationship with an active addict. He kept asking if I was refusing to take him back because I am seeing someone. I told him in no uncertain terms that the two are totally unrelated, and that I am unwilling to discuss my new relationship with him.

Oh, he quacked and quacked and quacked. Quacked about how he's sober now, right after he admitted to getting totally wasted last night. Quacked about how much he loves me, and he doesn't want our marriage to end. Quacked about dating a woman for awhile, but ultimately telling her to "get lost" because she wasn't me. Quack quack quack. Because this is NOT about me. It is about his ego, and now he knows I am seeing someone. Absolutely NOTHING about our marriage, or our dynamic has changed between Saturday (BEFORE he knew about my guy) and today (AFTER he knew about my guy).

He asked me repeatedly if things are really over, and I responded every single time that yes, things are really over. I told him that I do not have to explain myself to him, nor does he need to "approve" of my reasons for leaving. When we hung up, he said that he does not think he is in a good emotional state to have DS over tomorrow night as usual. He will not be seeing DS until Thursday night, which means I will not have to interact with STBXAH at all until Friday morning. If he calls or texts me before then, I am ignoring it.

Seriously...there has been more quacking over the past 36 hours than there has been since I moved out last year. I am all quacked out.

LexieCat

Yeah, it's hard to watch people suffer, even when it's a product of their own behavior. I'm sure he IS suffering. I'm glad you can feel compassion for him without going down the rabbit hole of guilt or the need to "fix it."

I think what you said and did was completely appropriate under the circumstances. You made your boundary, and that will give you a measure of peace and confidence you otherwise wouldn't have.

And I'm glad, too, that you haven't given up hope that he will get better. It takes some people a lot of losses to get to the point where they are ready. You are giving him a gift at the same time you are doing what's right for you and your son.

Big hugs,

dandylion

Wisconsin.....I think you handled that just great.
If he ever, again, brings up the "I love you" as a reason to resume the marriage....
You can always tell him what we so often tell the loved o nes, here on SR---"Love is not enough".....

dandylion

honeypig

Wow, Wisconsin, I'm coming to all of this late b/c I was out of town for the past few days--what a time you've had! It sounds to me like you're using the tools you've gotten in recovery and are handling things as well as they can be handled.

I guess if you ever wonder why it took you as long to leave as it did, maybe the answer is so that when all THIS happened, you were rock solid and iron clad w/the "no, we are NOT EVER getting back together" reply. You had ridden the train all the way to the absolute end of the line and you knew there was no more track...

Sending you hugs and my usual wishes for strength and clarity!

Wisconsin

My friends, the things he said were all things I would have sold my soul to the devil to hear a few years ago. But now? I am sorry he is in pain, and I feel a lot of compassion for him. But not one single cell in my body considered, even for a millisecond, that I should take him back.

HP, I think you are 100% right, and I hadn't thought about it that way at all. One of the eight bajillion reasons I love this place so much.