Oldest daughter....major anger underneath
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Oldest daughter....major anger underneath
Well my oldest has been a different person since the phone calks with dad stopped (he's in "rehab-I use that term lightly). She's sleeping all night, not angry every night bc of daddy's lovely tirades, blaming or just inappropriate crap-she's not anxious, she's just a normal kid. I'm over the moon happy. BUT man oh man does she harbor so much anger. I've reached out to her therapist but wanted to ask y'all for advice as well as some of y'all know the abuse and what her dad has done to her and how he's treated her.
Today out of nowhere she grabbed my youngest off the potty and threw her into the wall-my youngest is three. Oldest starts screaming and is so angry I can feel it...she screamed that she was frustrated that her sister wanted to flush the potty again. I calmed sister down and gave her a book to read while I sat down to talk with my okdest. I asked get how she felt and what on earth that was about-that we never treat others that way. She started crying really hard and got angry and told me that she learned that from her dad. That he was mean to her but he was her dad and didn't teach her good things-but she knew it wasn't right or ok but didn't know how to make a better choice bc daddy taught her that. (Yes-"daddy"was amaze balls-likes to flick you in the face or any other body part, yank your arm, grab shirts, smack, etc-the lost goes on and on-and she witnessed a LOT of her daddy's drunken tirades while we were still married and has been further abused since). I just hugged her and cried with her and told her she was safe and ok and that how she was treated was not ok-I think I've told her that at least one hundred times in the past few years. When dealing with a total narc that doesn't give a sh$t about how he treats others or how his actions impact them, I'm at a loss. I'd really like some feedback on constructive things I can do to try and help her get her anger out-in an honest, healthy way. I pray for her constantly. Advice is much appreciated.
Today out of nowhere she grabbed my youngest off the potty and threw her into the wall-my youngest is three. Oldest starts screaming and is so angry I can feel it...she screamed that she was frustrated that her sister wanted to flush the potty again. I calmed sister down and gave her a book to read while I sat down to talk with my okdest. I asked get how she felt and what on earth that was about-that we never treat others that way. She started crying really hard and got angry and told me that she learned that from her dad. That he was mean to her but he was her dad and didn't teach her good things-but she knew it wasn't right or ok but didn't know how to make a better choice bc daddy taught her that. (Yes-"daddy"was amaze balls-likes to flick you in the face or any other body part, yank your arm, grab shirts, smack, etc-the lost goes on and on-and she witnessed a LOT of her daddy's drunken tirades while we were still married and has been further abused since). I just hugged her and cried with her and told her she was safe and ok and that how she was treated was not ok-I think I've told her that at least one hundred times in the past few years. When dealing with a total narc that doesn't give a sh$t about how he treats others or how his actions impact them, I'm at a loss. I'd really like some feedback on constructive things I can do to try and help her get her anger out-in an honest, healthy way. I pray for her constantly. Advice is much appreciated.
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It sounds to me like you handled it really well. As upsetting and disruptive as a scene like this is, it results in release of emotion her expressing her feelings honestly.
I'd be more worried if she was sly about her hostility.
I'd be more worried if she was sly about her hostility.
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I think you handled it really well too, For. (((((HUGS)))))
This is heartbreaking. Does she see a counselor at all yet? I think it would be really important for her to have some kind of outside sanctuary to unburden her thoughts & give you more specific ways to follow up with her at home.
I'll bet it's going to take a lot of constant redirection & handing her new tools to use in place of what 'daddy taught her'. She's old enough to get the concept that what we are doing isn't working & we need to learn new methods - that was then, this is now.
She's old enough to learn breathing exercises which can help her feel in control fairly quickly. At age 8 I learned EFT tapping just so I could teach it to DD because it could be used for almost ANYTHING. (We're actually going to a lecture this Thurs night by an expert in this field who helped with the production of "What the Bleep Do We Know", if you're familiar with that at all.)
Here's a thread from another forum where we talked about this quite a bit, my post #13 in that thread has a lot of links:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-attacks.html
She also started meditation at age 8 & still participates in those classes regularly. We introduced yoga at age 3 - so both of your DD's can benefit- and she's used it on & off & taken kid's classes when they are available.
My rule of thumb is that if it helps me it will likely help her as long as I can find an age-appropriate way of teaching her the basic principles.
This is heartbreaking. Does she see a counselor at all yet? I think it would be really important for her to have some kind of outside sanctuary to unburden her thoughts & give you more specific ways to follow up with her at home.
I'll bet it's going to take a lot of constant redirection & handing her new tools to use in place of what 'daddy taught her'. She's old enough to get the concept that what we are doing isn't working & we need to learn new methods - that was then, this is now.
She's old enough to learn breathing exercises which can help her feel in control fairly quickly. At age 8 I learned EFT tapping just so I could teach it to DD because it could be used for almost ANYTHING. (We're actually going to a lecture this Thurs night by an expert in this field who helped with the production of "What the Bleep Do We Know", if you're familiar with that at all.)
Here's a thread from another forum where we talked about this quite a bit, my post #13 in that thread has a lot of links:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-attacks.html
She also started meditation at age 8 & still participates in those classes regularly. We introduced yoga at age 3 - so both of your DD's can benefit- and she's used it on & off & taken kid's classes when they are available.
My rule of thumb is that if it helps me it will likely help her as long as I can find an age-appropriate way of teaching her the basic principles.
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Thank you. Yes, she has a counselor. She's been seeing her for over a year and a half and loves her. She doesn't open up quickly-daddy tried to silence her about some things he did and said and it's taken her a long time to talk about them, but she does-and she knows what's happened is not ok. She knows that-as she says, daddy listens to the devil and is mean....and I don't know if any truer words were spoken. Little minds, little hearts-but big truths coming from her.
I do need some more tools-I'm parenting well but always look for better ways to teach her to cope-stuff I had to learn as an adult bc I lacked any healthy coping as a child and young adult-I too was filled with anger growing up in my alcoholic home. I see it with her...BUT the difference is I'm categorically not my mother-I don't silence her for fear of upsetting dad (my mom did that). I acknowledge and validate her-and don't shame her...which is a fine line indeed.
Thank you for the advice on meditation-I may try that with her this weekend and see what she thinks. God her family history sucks...molestation, abuse, alcoholism, blaming the world for that persons problems....but I'm now healthy and determined to break those chains. Any new tools would be very welcomed!!
I do need some more tools-I'm parenting well but always look for better ways to teach her to cope-stuff I had to learn as an adult bc I lacked any healthy coping as a child and young adult-I too was filled with anger growing up in my alcoholic home. I see it with her...BUT the difference is I'm categorically not my mother-I don't silence her for fear of upsetting dad (my mom did that). I acknowledge and validate her-and don't shame her...which is a fine line indeed.
Thank you for the advice on meditation-I may try that with her this weekend and see what she thinks. God her family history sucks...molestation, abuse, alcoholism, blaming the world for that persons problems....but I'm now healthy and determined to break those chains. Any new tools would be very welcomed!!
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Originally Posted by Forourgirls 
.... her family history sucks....
Originally Posted by Forourgirls
....determined to break those chains ....
Originally Posted by Forourgirls
.... Any new tools....
In the bigger cities they actually have separate "ala-teen" from "ala-tot" programs.
Celebrate Recovery also has programs for kids of all ages.
If there aren't any such programs convenient to you it is _really_ easy to start one up because so many families are in need of one. Most of the time all it takes is for one person to bring up the subject at a regular meeting and everybody says "oh yeah, why didn't I think of that". Then the kids can have their own meeting at the same time as the regular al-anon and the parents take turns supervising.
They generally suggest separate rooms, but I've been to lots of meets where the al-anon room was big enough that the kids could meet in an oposite corner of the same room.
Mike
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Originally Posted by Forourgirls
Thank you. Yes, she has a counselor. She's been seeing her for over a year and a half and loves her. She doesn't open up quickly-daddy tried to silence her about some things he did and said and it's taken her a long time to talk about them, but she does-and she knows what's happened is not ok. She knows that-as she says, daddy listens to the devil and is mean....and I don't know if any truer words were spoken. Little minds, little hearts-but big truths coming from her.
I do need some more tools-I'm parenting well but always look for better ways to teach her to cope-stuff I had to learn as an adult bc I lacked any healthy coping as a child and young adult-I too was filled with anger growing up in my alcoholic home. I see it with her...BUT the difference is I'm categorically not my mother-I don't silence her for fear of upsetting dad (my mom did that). I acknowledge and validate her-and don't shame her...which is a fine line indeed.
Thank you for the advice on meditation-I may try that with her this weekend and see what she thinks. God her family history sucks...molestation, abuse, alcoholism, blaming the world for that persons problems....but I'm now healthy and determined to break those chains. Any new tools would be very welcomed!!
I do need some more tools-I'm parenting well but always look for better ways to teach her to cope-stuff I had to learn as an adult bc I lacked any healthy coping as a child and young adult-I too was filled with anger growing up in my alcoholic home. I see it with her...BUT the difference is I'm categorically not my mother-I don't silence her for fear of upsetting dad (my mom did that). I acknowledge and validate her-and don't shame her...which is a fine line indeed.
Thank you for the advice on meditation-I may try that with her this weekend and see what she thinks. God her family history sucks...molestation, abuse, alcoholism, blaming the world for that persons problems....but I'm now healthy and determined to break those chains. Any new tools would be very welcomed!!
DD took to meditation like a fish to water - it gave her such a sense of control between that & the breathing/yoga. I know there are a lot of kid-friendly meditations out there, which is how she started. We've used youtube for a lot of our favorites, but I haven't looked for kid specific ones there.
I REALLY think you would benefit from reading Brene's "Gifts of Imperfect Parenting" - I listened to it on audio that I borrowed from my library. It was maybe 2.5 hours long. She has a great way of breaking down all of the same kind of stuff you're talking about here, but you'll feel SO validated hearing it put that way from someone who has now spent decades studying these EXACT issues - shame, vulnerability, etc. & how we can apply it to parenting our kids better than we were.
And no doubt, I picked up a few kernels of growth along the way. I highly, highly recommend it.
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Big giant ((HUGS)), FOG. I agree with everyone--your DD is so lucky to have you.
My DS is 5, and he struggles with managing and expressing his anger, too. He was rarely on the receiving end directly of STBXAH's anger, but he saw tons of the abuse inflicted on me. None of it was physical, but DS definitely started expressing HIS anger physically. He has calmed down a lot since we left 6 months ago, but still struggles at times. I had high hopes of getting him in with a particular therapist, but that person isn't on our plan. So it's back to the drawing board. One of STBXAH's greatest struggles is his lack of coping skills, and it is my mission to teach DS some strong and healthy coping skills.
My DS is 5, and he struggles with managing and expressing his anger, too. He was rarely on the receiving end directly of STBXAH's anger, but he saw tons of the abuse inflicted on me. None of it was physical, but DS definitely started expressing HIS anger physically. He has calmed down a lot since we left 6 months ago, but still struggles at times. I had high hopes of getting him in with a particular therapist, but that person isn't on our plan. So it's back to the drawing board. One of STBXAH's greatest struggles is his lack of coping skills, and it is my mission to teach DS some strong and healthy coping skills.
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Oh man, I am so sorry. It's so hard to see this.
I am dealing with this with my eldest DD. She has a very short fuse. It's in her wiring, and she saw this happen over and over in my relationship w/her father. It's tragic. We are working on it.
The good thing is that she has had enough counseling and enough education about addiction, and what happens to families, that she is aware of it. That in and of itself was big. Her counselor is working with her. I would have done just what you did. Break it up with love and be there for her. That is all you can do right now, and just what she needs.
Much love to you and your girls.
I am dealing with this with my eldest DD. She has a very short fuse. It's in her wiring, and she saw this happen over and over in my relationship w/her father. It's tragic. We are working on it.
The good thing is that she has had enough counseling and enough education about addiction, and what happens to families, that she is aware of it. That in and of itself was big. Her counselor is working with her. I would have done just what you did. Break it up with love and be there for her. That is all you can do right now, and just what she needs.
Much love to you and your girls.
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Thank you....so very much for the support and suggestions! I will bury my head in YouTube videos for kid meditation and research Brene books tonight thank you!!!
And yes, W, that is my ex too-has NO coping skills-none, nada-other than playing the victim, tearing others down to make himself feel better and getting drunk and thinking that nobody has it as bad as he does-so basically, he has a case of the terrible twos. I'ts freaking hard to unlearn all the unhealthy stuff I learned growing up (AND the abuse I accepted in my marriage) and relearn healthy stuff-difficult but so incredibly worth it. Gosh, writing this I recalled how my ex used to talk about his childhood-and I saw it even while we were dating/married-nobody was to "rock the boat" and **** off his drunk abusuve dad-just keep it to yourself and stay under the radar-it was AWFUL and that's how my exs mother raised her kids!!!! Silence, secrets and sin-those ruled in that house. And honestly it was starting to go that route in my home as well...until I jumped off the crazy train....just so done protecting HIM and his abuse and lies...my daughter needs help directly because of her dad, that's all I'm concerned about-he's his mommys problem now.
Thank you hopeful and FireSprite, etc for the words of encouragement and suggestions! Love IS all she needs.
thank you!!!And yes, W, that is my ex too-has NO coping skills-none, nada-other than playing the victim, tearing others down to make himself feel better and getting drunk and thinking that nobody has it as bad as he does-so basically, he has a case of the terrible twos. I'ts freaking hard to unlearn all the unhealthy stuff I learned growing up (AND the abuse I accepted in my marriage) and relearn healthy stuff-difficult but so incredibly worth it. Gosh, writing this I recalled how my ex used to talk about his childhood-and I saw it even while we were dating/married-nobody was to "rock the boat" and **** off his drunk abusuve dad-just keep it to yourself and stay under the radar-it was AWFUL and that's how my exs mother raised her kids!!!! Silence, secrets and sin-those ruled in that house. And honestly it was starting to go that route in my home as well...until I jumped off the crazy train....just so done protecting HIM and his abuse and lies...my daughter needs help directly because of her dad, that's all I'm concerned about-he's his mommys problem now.
Thank you hopeful and FireSprite, etc for the words of encouragement and suggestions! Love IS all she needs.
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Mike-I called the Alanon chapter in my nearest big city a while ago and was told she needed to wait until she was a teen. She was not friendly at all!! (My local alanon groups do not allow children)
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Originally Posted by Forourgirls
Mike-I called the Alanon chapter in my nearest big city a while ago and was told she needed to wait until she was a teen. She was not friendly at all!! (My local alanon groups do not allow children)
So much for that idea.
But I always have _more_ ideas, I'm a codie doncha know?
If your local al-anon groups do not allow children... then I see an opportunity for a meeting that _does_. Over here we start a meet by making it a once-a-month potluck at somebody's house. Potluck first, followed by meet.
I don't know if that is workable at all, just throwing it out.
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Just wanted to second (third?) the recommendation for yoga/meditation/mindfulness for kids! My DD is 7 and was adopted through foster care at age 3. She's been through a lot in her little life. Her biggest issue is that she is really disconnected from her body and has a hard time expressing feelings. She generally does the shut down/bottle it up approach, until her rage comes out sideways and usually destructive only to herself and her own property. Major shame issues there, I think. She's been in counseling for about 3 years, but we recently added some private yoga practice for her as well. This teacher/counselor is great and has really helped her get more in touch with herself and her own emotions. Her favorite mantra is "I live my truth!" It's pretty amazing hearing that very grown-up sentiment coming from her sweet little 7 year old voice, and wondering how that feels and how she thinks about what her truth is. Definitely a positive experience for her all around.
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Thank you ^ Looks like this momma is going to start learning yoga funny-I've always wanted to try, secretly....I'm so not a yogi but I'll give it a try
FireSprite-wouldn't you know the universe is taking care of me....while organizing a random box of crap I had thrown lots of stuff into, I found a Barnes and noble gift card-no way I thought-almost thew it away. Guess who ordered Brene browns audio book for free tonight?!? Whoop!
Thanks guys-the most amazing part about all of this is that she, that little girl, is my reason for everything-she teaches me just as much as I teach her. She challenges me to be a better parent each day, learn new things, stretch beyond myself and constantly battle my unhealthy learned patterns. You know, Mike, you say she's lucky to have me as a mom-I'm lucky to have her as my sweet girl-she's my reason!
funny-I've always wanted to try, secretly....I'm so not a yogi but I'll give it a try FireSprite-wouldn't you know the universe is taking care of me....while organizing a random box of crap I had thrown lots of stuff into, I found a Barnes and noble gift card-no way I thought-almost thew it away. Guess who ordered Brene browns audio book for free tonight?!? Whoop!
Thanks guys-the most amazing part about all of this is that she, that little girl, is my reason for everything-she teaches me just as much as I teach her. She challenges me to be a better parent each day, learn new things, stretch beyond myself and constantly battle my unhealthy learned patterns. You know, Mike, you say she's lucky to have me as a mom-I'm lucky to have her as my sweet girl-she's my reason!
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Forourgirls, you handled that so well. I have such a hard time with anyone's anger. ((((hugs))))
I feel the same way about DS: I learn just as much from him as he might from me. Having him around definitely helps me think more and examine how I feel rather than just reacting or moving around on auto-pilot.
I feel the same way about DS: I learn just as much from him as he might from me. Having him around definitely helps me think more and examine how I feel rather than just reacting or moving around on auto-pilot.
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What great serendipity! ALL of her work is amazing. I didn't even realize the parenting one was actually a book - the audio sounded much more lecture-like in my memory vs. a book reading. I'll have to check into that! I'm certain you've heard me share a time or 6 about her Parenting Manifesto, lol. It's become my bible for parenting in so many ways.
This is incredible! I'm sold on the idea of how this helps kids, it's kind of a no-brainer when you think about it. It's what I'm turning to as a tool to help HEAL my damage & medical science is catching on & finding evidence to back up all the claims that have been made for years. Meditation literally improves your state of mind - I've read story after story citing all kinds of studies being performed.
And with kids, especially in the case of trauma, it's redirection that they can build on throughout their entire lives. What a gift you are giving her in helping her cultivate this so early in life!! I tell DD all the time that no matter what happens externally, she can always retain control INSIDE her mind & that's what this is all about - figuring out how to stay calm in the midst of the storms that life throws her way. I tell her that life will never be done throwing curve balls so we can either curl up & cry every time that happens, or we can ground ourselves solidly so that we don't erode as people even if everything around us changes. (i.e. No Control) Her mind can always be her sanctuary.
DD has finally managed to convince RAH to give yoga a shot, basically asking him why he thinks his pain is more difficult than the stories she seen/read about people recovering from much worse physical states using a program of yoga & meditation. He ran out of answers & finally his pain got big enough. Day #2 of DD-led boot camp & I am determined to stay out of it unless asked for input.
It may be a bad joke, but sometimes when DD forgets to put her tools to use & starts to feel the squeeze of stress I remind her that I can afford to help with college or therapy, not both.
Do NOT underestimate the power of this statement. I believe fully that our kids help us to heal & I've read a lot recently about ancestral healing specifically. I've run into it as a theory in both Native American & Buddhist teachings & can certainly attest to seeing it in action in my own world. When I parent better/differently than my own upbringing, part of me deep inside heals. It's been a huge part of my ability to find acceptance & let go of so many things over these last few years. With where you are at Right Now & all that has been bubbling under the surface, I'll bet anything that when you start a yoga/meditation program you see another wave of incredible healing & self-empowerment happen for you. Stuff you can't even KNOW is buried, ready to be released..... I was & continue to be blown away.
Originally Posted by findingme26
Just wanted to second (third?) the recommendation for yoga/meditation/mindfulness for kids! My DD is 7 and was adopted through foster care at age 3. She's been through a lot in her little life. Her biggest issue is that she is really disconnected from her body and has a hard time expressing feelings. She generally does the shut down/bottle it up approach, until her rage comes out sideways and usually destructive only to herself and her own property. Major shame issues there, I think. She's been in counseling for about 3 years, but we recently added some private yoga practice for her as well. This teacher/counselor is great and has really helped her get more in touch with herself and her own emotions. Her favorite mantra is "I live my truth!" It's pretty amazing hearing that very grown-up sentiment coming from her sweet little 7 year old voice, and wondering how that feels and how she thinks about what her truth is. Definitely a positive experience for her all around.
This is incredible! I'm sold on the idea of how this helps kids, it's kind of a no-brainer when you think about it. It's what I'm turning to as a tool to help HEAL my damage & medical science is catching on & finding evidence to back up all the claims that have been made for years. Meditation literally improves your state of mind - I've read story after story citing all kinds of studies being performed.
And with kids, especially in the case of trauma, it's redirection that they can build on throughout their entire lives. What a gift you are giving her in helping her cultivate this so early in life!! I tell DD all the time that no matter what happens externally, she can always retain control INSIDE her mind & that's what this is all about - figuring out how to stay calm in the midst of the storms that life throws her way. I tell her that life will never be done throwing curve balls so we can either curl up & cry every time that happens, or we can ground ourselves solidly so that we don't erode as people even if everything around us changes. (i.e. No Control) Her mind can always be her sanctuary.
DD has finally managed to convince RAH to give yoga a shot, basically asking him why he thinks his pain is more difficult than the stories she seen/read about people recovering from much worse physical states using a program of yoga & meditation. He ran out of answers & finally his pain got big enough. Day #2 of DD-led boot camp & I am determined to stay out of it unless asked for input.
It may be a bad joke, but sometimes when DD forgets to put her tools to use & starts to feel the squeeze of stress I remind her that I can afford to help with college or therapy, not both.
Originally Posted by Forourgirls
You know, Mike, you say she's lucky to have me as a mom-I'm lucky to have her as my sweet girl-she's my reason!
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I think the hardest thing so far is seeing her cry and ask through tears why her daddy would treat her like that....and truly, I don't have the answer-I just hug her and tell her it's not ok at all. I don't know why - only he knows that-and I doubt he cares at all. So incredibly hard to see...I know y'all know. But she will thrive-God has me on a path of healing for all of us. There was an amazing party in the book I'm finishing up, "the body keeps the score", that talks about kids coming from terrible traumatic childhoods but were able to live healthy adult functioning lives (and not have a wrecked childhood) bc they had healthy coping methods...they were taught certain truths and how to cope. Praying I can teach her these....
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I'm just starting that book For, it looks incredible. 
I linked a friend to all of this kid meditation info yesterday so I thought I'd share it all here just in case anyone is interested:
How to Get Kids to Meditate | The Chopra Center
Meditation and yoga for children | Freemeditation.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv6Y1tq1sQ
MINDFULNESS FOR CHILDREN
Deepak Chopra's Meditation to Inspire Children | Meditation for Kids
I linked a friend to all of this kid meditation info yesterday so I thought I'd share it all here just in case anyone is interested:
How to Get Kids to Meditate | The Chopra Center
Meditation and yoga for children | Freemeditation.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv6Y1tq1sQ
MINDFULNESS FOR CHILDREN
Deepak Chopra's Meditation to Inspire Children | Meditation for Kids
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