Is alcoholism always progressive?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Is alcoholism always progressive?
Hi,
I've read that alcoholism is progressive, but it doesn't appear to be that way in my STBXAH's case. Am I missing something, perhaps the longer view? I ask because in conversations with my attorney, it has become clear to me that my best chance for getting sole custody would have been 4 years ago, when he got in our middle daughter's bed in the middle of the night on two occasions, and got picked up by the cops while lurching around dead drunk trying to find his car. (Very unfortunately they found him before he found the car, or he would have gotten a DUI.) At that time, however, I was focused on saving our marriage while protecting our kids, so I wouldn't have found myself in an attorney's office for advice.
Fast forward 4 years of yelling, anger, and drunken swearing and accosting me in the middle of the night, yet nothing reaches the same threshold of awfulness and danger as what he did in 2012.
I moved out in November, and since then we've had split custody, and he seems to be managing the kid chores just fine. In fact, when I stop by the house I'm somewhat annoyed to see that he appears to be doing a better job of keeping house now than he ever did when I lived there.
Yet he makes no claims to be in recovery, and circumstantial evidence suggests that he drinks when he doesn't have the kids and probably somewhat when he has them, too.
So, I'm wondering, when people claim that alcoholism is progressive, is that always true? Could it be that a person can cut back to a less destructive level of drinking, or that the body adapts somehow?
Maybe, since I'm not there anymore, I'm not able to see the progression, and he's found other targets for his rage. However, our kids (9. 13, 15) haven't told me anything worrisome either, though I ask, in the most gentle way possible. (My attorney thinks they may be covering for their dad, which is possible.)
I'm not engaging in wistful thinking; I'm just trying to gauge the real implications of continued shared custody. I'm pressing my case for sobriety monitoring when STBXAH has the kids, yet I feel like I (and the legal system) are waiting for something really bad to happen before being willing to implement remedies to what appears to be a silent danger.
Thoughts?
I've read that alcoholism is progressive, but it doesn't appear to be that way in my STBXAH's case. Am I missing something, perhaps the longer view? I ask because in conversations with my attorney, it has become clear to me that my best chance for getting sole custody would have been 4 years ago, when he got in our middle daughter's bed in the middle of the night on two occasions, and got picked up by the cops while lurching around dead drunk trying to find his car. (Very unfortunately they found him before he found the car, or he would have gotten a DUI.) At that time, however, I was focused on saving our marriage while protecting our kids, so I wouldn't have found myself in an attorney's office for advice.
Fast forward 4 years of yelling, anger, and drunken swearing and accosting me in the middle of the night, yet nothing reaches the same threshold of awfulness and danger as what he did in 2012.
I moved out in November, and since then we've had split custody, and he seems to be managing the kid chores just fine. In fact, when I stop by the house I'm somewhat annoyed to see that he appears to be doing a better job of keeping house now than he ever did when I lived there.
Yet he makes no claims to be in recovery, and circumstantial evidence suggests that he drinks when he doesn't have the kids and probably somewhat when he has them, too.
So, I'm wondering, when people claim that alcoholism is progressive, is that always true? Could it be that a person can cut back to a less destructive level of drinking, or that the body adapts somehow?
Maybe, since I'm not there anymore, I'm not able to see the progression, and he's found other targets for his rage. However, our kids (9. 13, 15) haven't told me anything worrisome either, though I ask, in the most gentle way possible. (My attorney thinks they may be covering for their dad, which is possible.)
I'm not engaging in wistful thinking; I'm just trying to gauge the real implications of continued shared custody. I'm pressing my case for sobriety monitoring when STBXAH has the kids, yet I feel like I (and the legal system) are waiting for something really bad to happen before being willing to implement remedies to what appears to be a silent danger.
Thoughts?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 171
he has to keep up appearances, until he can't keep them up anymore.
I get annoyed when I see the house too. The boys have stepped in and are doing just about everything in the house there and it looks decent. There is food in the house and nobody can say that the boys don't have clothes because they do....all over the bedrooms and in the bathroom. X is drinking more but the boys are not reporting anything to me either, so I wait and wait too. My guys are 11, 15, and 16.
Sue
I get annoyed when I see the house too. The boys have stepped in and are doing just about everything in the house there and it looks decent. There is food in the house and nobody can say that the boys don't have clothes because they do....all over the bedrooms and in the bathroom. X is drinking more but the boys are not reporting anything to me either, so I wait and wait too. My guys are 11, 15, and 16.
Sue
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I know of some people who "plateau" for a while, but I've never known a case of alcoholism to get better on its own. Maybe he's doing a better job right now of compensating. Maybe he's taking drugs, too. Who knows?
Pretty hard to judge from how the house looks. Maybe he has a cleaning service come in.
Pretty hard to judge from how the house looks. Maybe he has a cleaning service come in.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I found I had peaks and valleys in my drinking and I managed to have a dysfunctional life that looked normal from the outside for 20 years. I can say for me alcoholism was progressive. It was a slow and steady death spiral that eventually had me physically addicted and my life was falling apart. I managed to keep things together until I couldn't do it any more
It is entirely possible your husband is trying to convince himself that he can manage life and drinking and maybe temporarily he is but it will not last forever.
It is entirely possible your husband is trying to convince himself that he can manage life and drinking and maybe temporarily he is but it will not last forever.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
I think there are lots and lots of kinds of alcohol abuse. For some of us, over time we change the way they drink, with age or because of health reasons, without using a program of recovery. I personally found a way to manage daily drinking that didn't seriously impinge daily functioning, and learned to restrict my wild binges to highly anonymous occasions. It didn't make me any less an alcoholic, but I became less dangerous to be around. Eventually it went south for me anyway, but I have an aunt who's been able to maintain something like that into old age. She's a pretty miserable person & miserable to be around, but she's alive. I don't think she endangered her children by driving drunk (her husband was incredibly enabling), but she neglected and shamed them, and they're the worse for it.
In other words, like MIRecovery said, some alcoholics "manage." But I'd say it always creates a sucky environment for the alcoholic and anyone close to him or her.
In other words, like MIRecovery said, some alcoholics "manage." But I'd say it always creates a sucky environment for the alcoholic and anyone close to him or her.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
I don't know how old he is....maybe, late 40's....early to late 50's.....
People age at different rates...but, sooner or later...you can't trick Mother Nature....the body finally looses it's reserves and it does begin to show.....
I know for a fact that kids...especially, the o lder ones will "cover up"....Kids HATE fighting and the chaos...and, they learn, very early, what to do to keep it at a minimum.....
dandylion
People age at different rates...but, sooner or later...you can't trick Mother Nature....the body finally looses it's reserves and it does begin to show.....
I know for a fact that kids...especially, the o lder ones will "cover up"....Kids HATE fighting and the chaos...and, they learn, very early, what to do to keep it at a minimum.....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
He's still am alcoholic any way you slice it. What does it matter? (Unless it effects your kids-which, it does). He will most likely "manage" until....he doesn't. Were you able to get any sobriety monitoring? I couldn't recall....
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,254
My guess most of what everyone else is saying is true. Every time I think the alkie/addict has hit a bottom something new comes up. Over the last year the time in between angry outbursts/tantrums has diminished. At the same he is using other drugs to keep himself going including steroids and adderall/stimulants. Alkies/addicts make good liars, go out of their way to put on a show that they are not an alkie or have a problem. They do it long enough it becomes natural and automatic to them. But later as mentioned they won't be able to put on that act or even care.
Try to keep others advised he has a problem and try to avoid enabling-takes awhile for many. And that's another problem there are probably big time enablers in his life along with friends or family that validate his behavior one way or another. Don't get hung up on 'the disease' either, a lot of their behaviors, morals or ethics were in place or form long before heaving drinking. Until they chose to change try to keep yourself and others safe.
Good Luck
Try to keep others advised he has a problem and try to avoid enabling-takes awhile for many. And that's another problem there are probably big time enablers in his life along with friends or family that validate his behavior one way or another. Don't get hung up on 'the disease' either, a lot of their behaviors, morals or ethics were in place or form long before heaving drinking. Until they chose to change try to keep yourself and others safe.
Good Luck
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Thanks, everyone. He's in his late 40s. No, we don't have a sobriety monitoring plan in place yet. He refused to agree to it when my attorney advised me, with no history of substance abuse, not to do it too, but tomorrow we're back in the mediator's office, trying to get him to commit.
Even then, the plan is for testing 3 times/day over 60 days, spread out over 120 days, since he has custody every other week And then, if he manages to white knuckle it or cheat the testing, it's anyone's bet what I'll be able to get in the legal system if he continues to manage to look like he's okay.
Believe me, I'll be trying to use the evidence I have (my journals, friends' testimonies, his doctor's diagnosis of alcoholism) to argue for continued sobriety monitoring.
Even then, the plan is for testing 3 times/day over 60 days, spread out over 120 days, since he has custody every other week And then, if he manages to white knuckle it or cheat the testing, it's anyone's bet what I'll be able to get in the legal system if he continues to manage to look like he's okay.
Believe me, I'll be trying to use the evidence I have (my journals, friends' testimonies, his doctor's diagnosis of alcoholism) to argue for continued sobriety monitoring.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,426
He's maybe trying to keep things up, but if he continues to drink,
that will eventually go out the window sooner or later.
I do believe alcohol is progressive
as it was for my mother, and later for me.
Try to get the sobriety monitoring no matter what
and realize you may or may not get it long-term.
that will eventually go out the window sooner or later.
I do believe alcohol is progressive
as it was for my mother, and later for me.
Try to get the sobriety monitoring no matter what
and realize you may or may not get it long-term.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Mediation didn't go well today. He refused to do sobriety monitoring if I won't do it too.
He also portrayed himself as a victim of my 'volatility' and 'erratic behavior' since I changed my mind about the sobriety monitoring deal, on my attorneys' advice.
He also went on the attack, accusing me of having a problem with alcohol since on a few occasions I have had drinks with friends.
And he flat out denied that he's an alcoholic. When I pulled out his doctor's diagnosis, he claimed that he and his doctor discussed how to cut back on his drinking because STBXAH brought it up as a concern. The mediator asked if he knew what the prescribed drugs (naltrexone and disulfram) are for, and he said yes, to eliminate cravings and to make you sick when you drink.
Apparently, following STBXAH's logic, one takes those drugs just to cut back on social drinking. Or something.
And a doctor's report that says "diagnosis" means . . . concerns that are up for discussion?
I'm exhausted, and sad, and discouraged. But all I can do is push on, knowing that some day I'll either have the kids if/until he gets sober, or the legal system will determine that their A dad should continue having partial custody. The saga continues . . .
He also portrayed himself as a victim of my 'volatility' and 'erratic behavior' since I changed my mind about the sobriety monitoring deal, on my attorneys' advice.
He also went on the attack, accusing me of having a problem with alcohol since on a few occasions I have had drinks with friends.
And he flat out denied that he's an alcoholic. When I pulled out his doctor's diagnosis, he claimed that he and his doctor discussed how to cut back on his drinking because STBXAH brought it up as a concern. The mediator asked if he knew what the prescribed drugs (naltrexone and disulfram) are for, and he said yes, to eliminate cravings and to make you sick when you drink.
Apparently, following STBXAH's logic, one takes those drugs just to cut back on social drinking. Or something.
And a doctor's report that says "diagnosis" means . . . concerns that are up for discussion?
I'm exhausted, and sad, and discouraged. But all I can do is push on, knowing that some day I'll either have the kids if/until he gets sober, or the legal system will determine that their A dad should continue having partial custody. The saga continues . . .
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Western US
Posts: 9,003
Originally Posted by sauerkraut 
Mediation didn't go well today. He refused to do sobriety monitoring if I won't do it too.
He also portrayed himself as a victim of my 'volatility' and 'erratic behavior' since I changed my mind about the sobriety monitoring deal, on my attorneys' advice.
He also went on the attack, accusing me of having a problem with alcohol since on a few occasions I have had drinks with friends.
And he flat out denied that he's an alcoholic. When I pulled out his doctor's diagnosis, he claimed that he and his doctor discussed how to cut back on his drinking because STBXAH brought it up as a concern. The mediator asked if he knew what the prescribed drugs (naltrexone and disulfram) are for, and he said yes, to eliminate cravings and to make you sick when you drink.
Apparently, following STBXAH's logic, one takes those drugs just to cut back on social drinking. Or something.
And a doctor's report that says "diagnosis" means . . . concerns that are up for discussion?
I'm exhausted, and sad, and discouraged. But all I can do is push on, knowing that some day I'll either have the kids if/until he gets sober, or the legal system will determine that their A dad should continue having partial custody. The saga continues . . .
He also portrayed himself as a victim of my 'volatility' and 'erratic behavior' since I changed my mind about the sobriety monitoring deal, on my attorneys' advice.
He also went on the attack, accusing me of having a problem with alcohol since on a few occasions I have had drinks with friends.
And he flat out denied that he's an alcoholic. When I pulled out his doctor's diagnosis, he claimed that he and his doctor discussed how to cut back on his drinking because STBXAH brought it up as a concern. The mediator asked if he knew what the prescribed drugs (naltrexone and disulfram) are for, and he said yes, to eliminate cravings and to make you sick when you drink.
Apparently, following STBXAH's logic, one takes those drugs just to cut back on social drinking. Or something.
And a doctor's report that says "diagnosis" means . . . concerns that are up for discussion?
I'm exhausted, and sad, and discouraged. But all I can do is push on, knowing that some day I'll either have the kids if/until he gets sober, or the legal system will determine that their A dad should continue having partial custody. The saga continues . . .
May everything good come your way!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
I'm so sorry sauerkraut-truly. Get done rest and hit your knees in prayer...for the kids and the court system. He's projecting onto you and the simple fact of him refusing sobriety monitoring shows he is in fact a raging alcoholic. A good parent would do anything to see their kids. God bless you...you are a great momma.
Into the Void
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California
Posts: 931
To return to your original question, "alcoholism always gets worse, not better" is one of the unquestioned claims you will always hear in the recovery community, and while it is normally true it is not always the case. I can tell you that my drinking peaked at its worst in my early 20's and then went down a few notches until I quit in my 40's. I managed to pull things back quite a bit, although it was still quite destructive. So yes, sometimes alcohol dependent persons are able to improve, at least for a while.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
My X is an alcoholic. Early 40's. While he was married to me, he did not drink nearly as much as he does now that his new wife enables him. He looks really bad. He is very pale, very puffy. Very unhappy. While he may be able to hold it together around certain family members, it has definitely gotten much worse.
I remind my kids that while it may seem he is choosing to drink over them, that it's an addiction, and that his body is screaming for it, all the time. While it does not condone bad behavior or drinking, at least they understand what is going on.
Sad, very sad.
I remind my kids that while it may seem he is choosing to drink over them, that it's an addiction, and that his body is screaming for it, all the time. While it does not condone bad behavior or drinking, at least they understand what is going on.
Sad, very sad.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
The fact that he won't agree to sobriety testing is a big red flag.
In my experience, alcoholism is progressive, but we have to look at it in the long term perspective. We alcoholics can do damage control and stay even for a while, but the alcoholism itself does get worse over time.
Take care of you and those kids. You can keep growing in your recovery.
Love and hugs to you
In my experience, alcoholism is progressive, but we have to look at it in the long term perspective. We alcoholics can do damage control and stay even for a while, but the alcoholism itself does get worse over time.
Take care of you and those kids. You can keep growing in your recovery.
Love and hugs to you
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