post accute withdrawal symptoms???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 59
post accute withdrawal symptoms???
on one of my posts I had asked did paws come back and Iwas greatful for the aadvice but I never got a direct answer,I had paws after being clean for 3 months,paws hit me like a ton of bricks,I never in my life felt like that so I figured if I never felt like that while drinking obviously drinking was making me better,I knew it sounded stupid but started drinking,Iwas mad when iI found out it was just my brain getting back to normal,im asking because I googled can you get paws again and there was not one single thread about it coming back,it just tells you what the symptoms are,I just want to know can you get it again or is it like a onetime thing and that is why its unheard of.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,772
When I was fairly early in recovery, I had PAWS symptoms come and go. It wasn't all the time, just here and there. I had good days and bad days.
You just have to get thru them sober. With time, it does get better.
You just have to get thru them sober. With time, it does get better.
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
I don't think recovering from addiction is a linear, predictable thing. I felt okay days 1-3, TERRIBLE on day 4, and have had some really sad, cranky, headachey and out of sorts days on and off, particularly around the 30 day point. Right now on day 43 I'm feeling pretty well.
I think it depends on the individual, how long you were drinking and how much, whether you have any underlying health problems, etc. I can say from experience that quitting this time post-menopause was much harder on me physically, even though I had been drinking much less, quantity-wise, than in my younger years.
So this long-winded message comes down to this...it depends. I have read in several places that PAWS symptoms can come and go for a couple of years in recovering from an entrenched addiction.
I think it depends on the individual, how long you were drinking and how much, whether you have any underlying health problems, etc. I can say from experience that quitting this time post-menopause was much harder on me physically, even though I had been drinking much less, quantity-wise, than in my younger years.
So this long-winded message comes down to this...it depends.
I have read in several places that PAWS symptoms can come and go for a couple of years in recovering from an entrenched addiction.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,414
Hi sobriety26
Make sure you're posting in the Newcomers forum - I've moved them, but your last two threads have been posted in the News forum, where you might not get much response
My experience with PAWs is I had it for a day here and a day there until about 90 days in and it did not reoccur after that.
the best Paws link I know is this one:
PAWS | Digital Dharma
Taking that as a guide then yes it's possible to suffer not exactly Paws 'coming back', but reoccuring episodes of PAWs,
If you read that link right through it also gives you suggestions on how to minimise PAWs effects
D
Make sure you're posting in the Newcomers forum - I've moved them, but your last two threads have been posted in the News forum, where you might not get much response
My experience with PAWs is I had it for a day here and a day there until about 90 days in and it did not reoccur after that.
the best Paws link I know is this one:
PAWS | Digital Dharma
However, the changes that have occurred in our brains need time to revert back to their original state (to the extent that they ever do). During the period of time while this is occurring, they can cause a variety of problems known as Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (PAWS).
PAWS symptoms reach a peak from three to six months after we get clean. Any use of drugs or alcohol, even in small quantities or for a short time, will effectively eliminate any improvement gained over that time, as it will keep the brain from healing
Repairing the damage to our nervous systems usually requires from six months to two years with a healthy program of recovery.
If you read that link right through it also gives you suggestions on how to minimise PAWs effects
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 59
will post accute withdrawal symptoms come back?
im desperate to get this question answered,it's been pretty tough for me,I was clean 3 months and got paws shortly after and I felt horrible,stressed,sad,anxiety,you name it,I relapsed shortly aftergetting paws and was mad to find out it was just my brain getting back to normal,I been clean since February 2nd and just want to know if you had paws and if you relapsed do the paws come back,if Ihad paws and was ffeeling that emotional roller coaster am Ilucky not to get it again or is there a guarantee I'll get it again,can my drinking make it go away for good or is it just postponed,im really curious,Igoogled iit and didn't get a direct answer on do paws or can paws come back twice,can you get it again??e
e
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Yes, paws symptoms can come back. But there is no guarantee one way or the other. Staying sober and working on staying healthy physically and mentally will cetrtainly help in all areas of your life.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southern Oregon U.S.
Posts: 1,023
Probably depends on how long the relapse was. Only guarantee I can give you is that if you go through paws and stay sober from there on out, you'll never have to feel like that again. I too wasn't sure why I felt so lousy around 6 months and it helped me see the true damage I had done. I guess there's one other guarantee I can give you, keep drinking or using will only postpone the inevitable and make it worse I imagine. Get 'er done, and over with and you'll be home free. If this latest relapse wasn't long it shouldn't have undone all the repairing your brain did. That's my two pennies anyways:-)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 88
The symptoms do come and go for some people, and they do indeed tend to fall around a 30 day cycle. I've already marked my calendar so I can be mindful to watch for symptoms and be prepared for PAWS in case it becomes an issue for me this time around.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 1,074
Oh gosh I guess I experienced PAWS after 3 months, i felt I was losing my mind!! I relapsed too, I just couldnt cope I guess, im now once again coming up to another 3 months of sobriety. Need to remind myself and go easy on myself over the next few weeks I think, get lots of aa meetings in.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Washington State
Posts: 591
When I went through outpatient recently one of the doctors mentioned there is something they called a 'brain check in' around 3 months that can sometimes cause some significant cravings to use, and it can seem to come out of the blue. Its basically part of the healing process and is the brain's way of asking if you're really sure you don't want to keep going with the previous pattern of using that you're in the process of breaking. It sounds to me like what you went through might've been that? I'm pretty sure its happened to me before too. 
It sucks but don't give up!
It sucks but don't give up!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Upper Kolobia
Posts: 153
I Think the World of Terence Gorski...
Who coined the term "PAWS" as part of a really effective relapse prevention model he developed in the late 80's/early 90's. I would recommend his books on the subject, and I was privileged to be working in the field at the time, giving occasional presentations on that topic at the "spin dry" I was working at back then.
My experience is that we each need to determine "the sober symptoms" of our disease, and they are unique to each of us. The power of groups such as 12-Step meetings--and aftercare as well--is they permit us to "see our pathology" in others and to being open to make changes. For me those are grounded in my relationship with a Higher Power, connections with sober sorts, and the old behavioral adage, "Act yourself into well-thinking; don't try to think yourself into well acting." I've sat through some of the toughest therapy groups and individual counseling sessions I can imagine, and well, the result is I'm closer to 40 years sober than 30; I'm still kicking butt and taking names.
I still fall back, though, on the "Keep It Simple" approach--usually after exhausting all options--and I've found a healthy dose of self-forgiveness (forgiving others is tougher, of course) and a bit of occasional self-mockery (like Rule 62) can go a long ways toward getting me through the tough times. Life means pain, period, and there's more pain than joy, even for the most "spiritual" of us. The good times are more powerful, and it's our fundamental immaturity/narcissism that deludes us into believing otherwise.
As for PAWS, we used to speak of "old behaviors," and the importance of keeping an eye out for them. Gorski's timetable for recovery runs around nine years minimum, and some of us are indeed "sicker than others." That reminds of a huge loss among our ranks here in Utah not long ago. An old friend, a lawyer who became a judge and helped hundreds with an appropriate "nudge," passed away. While I grieve, I recognize recovery is, indeed, about facing life on life's terms, and it can be really painful.
That friend was in town a few years ago and they called on him at our home group. He referred to me--it was probably one of my birthdays--and said point blank, "You were the youngest, sickest alcoholic I ever saw."
Mea culpa
My experience is that we each need to determine "the sober symptoms" of our disease, and they are unique to each of us. The power of groups such as 12-Step meetings--and aftercare as well--is they permit us to "see our pathology" in others and to being open to make changes. For me those are grounded in my relationship with a Higher Power, connections with sober sorts, and the old behavioral adage, "Act yourself into well-thinking; don't try to think yourself into well acting." I've sat through some of the toughest therapy groups and individual counseling sessions I can imagine, and well, the result is I'm closer to 40 years sober than 30; I'm still kicking butt and taking names.
I still fall back, though, on the "Keep It Simple" approach--usually after exhausting all options--and I've found a healthy dose of self-forgiveness (forgiving others is tougher, of course) and a bit of occasional self-mockery (like Rule 62) can go a long ways toward getting me through the tough times. Life means pain, period, and there's more pain than joy, even for the most "spiritual" of us. The good times are more powerful, and it's our fundamental immaturity/narcissism that deludes us into believing otherwise.
As for PAWS, we used to speak of "old behaviors," and the importance of keeping an eye out for them. Gorski's timetable for recovery runs around nine years minimum, and some of us are indeed "sicker than others." That reminds of a huge loss among our ranks here in Utah not long ago. An old friend, a lawyer who became a judge and helped hundreds with an appropriate "nudge," passed away. While I grieve, I recognize recovery is, indeed, about facing life on life's terms, and it can be really painful.
That friend was in town a few years ago and they called on him at our home group. He referred to me--it was probably one of my birthdays--and said point blank, "You were the youngest, sickest alcoholic I ever saw."
Mea culpa
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Southern California
Posts: 554
Holy Cow!!! I didn't know what PAWS was until this thread. When I quit before for a long period I totally suffered from this.
I couldn't figure out why I wasn't able to concentrate or felt foggy.
Thanks s26 and Dee!
I couldn't figure out why I wasn't able to concentrate or felt foggy.
Thanks s26 and Dee!
NA Member - Atheist
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Middletown CT USA
Posts: 770
Originally Posted by concolor1 
...Life means pain, period, and there's more pain than joy, even for the most "spiritual" of us. The good times are more powerful, and it's our fundamental immaturity/narcissism that deludes us into believing otherwise....
IME, that is something that we ignore as we yearn for the "quick fix" to make us feel "better". I could be wrong (happens all the time!), but often I think that when we are in early recovery we mistake plain old rough patches of life as PAWS, or a sign that something is wrong with our recovery, or an indication that we need immediate medical intervention.
Mind you, I'm not claiming to be able to diagnose the absence of PAWS, but I've observed that "normal" people have figured out something that we have a hard time grasping. Sometimes life gets tough, sometimes emotions become overwhelming, and sometimes we feel a bit "off". Normal people seem to realize that "this too shall pass", while addicts/alcoholics decide that it's the end of the world. Hang in there. It won't last.
This reminds me of something I heard a long time ago. "When a normal person gets a flat tire, they call AAA, when an addict/alcoholic gets a flat tire, they call the suicide hotline."
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 16
I am 30 days sober today and is the worst day by far I have experienced. I suffered a complete meltdown this morning before work following an argument with my son who is 19 who won't work full time and is skipping college etc etc. I have felt atrocious and unable to cope with anything just wanted to crawl in a corner and die. I look awful grey complexion, eyes red ringed and lifeless. Still suffering with energy slumps and zero motivation to take a little exercise and eat properly. However no booze so that's a good thing. I feel unsupported by my partner but don't want to make a fuss I hope this passes, could some of this be PAWS related?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
One important thing to remember about PAWS is that it’s just a convenient catch-all term for any withdrawal symptoms that persist or recur beyond the typical period for acute withdrawal. It’s not a condition that you ”get” like measles or mumps.
It can be hard to definitively ascribe one symptom or another specifically to PAWS, especially the emotional roller coaster aspect. Sometimes it’s just life, and sometimes we’re just not going to feel as well or as functional or as happy as at other times.
And this is coming from someone who had severe PAWS and still deals at times (although more and more rarely) with specific symptoms which I do ascribe to it almost 3 years down the line.
It can be hard to definitively ascribe one symptom or another specifically to PAWS, especially the emotional roller coaster aspect. Sometimes it’s just life, and sometimes we’re just not going to feel as well or as functional or as happy as at other times.
And this is coming from someone who had severe PAWS and still deals at times (although more and more rarely) with specific symptoms which I do ascribe to it almost 3 years down the line.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,414
I take the point being made several times in this thread that some days, and the things in them, are harder than others to deal with especially if you're unused to dealing with things....
but my behaviour sometimes in early recovery was so 'off' I really do think it went deeper than that for me.
That being said I'm not a doctor - I generally direct people to the link (Post#4) and let them decide whether they feel it matches with what they're feeling.
but my behaviour sometimes in early recovery was so 'off' I really do think it went deeper than that for me.
That being said I'm not a doctor - I generally direct people to the link (Post#4) and let them decide whether they feel it matches with what they're feeling.
Last edited by Dee74; 02-15-2016 at 02:10 PM.
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