Am I still welcome here? ;-)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Am I still welcome here? ;-)
I've been here a long so long and still can't commit full time, but something has changed, something important.
On December 21st my husband let slip that he had kissed a woman at a conference. This happened almost ten years ago and some of you might shrug if off. He told me the next next day (he was in another state) but told me a lie, a major lie, in which they had drinks, and he innocently escorted he to he room, she shocked him by kissing him and asking her into her room. He told her he was happily married and didn't do such things. Total lie. He only told me what could be verified by witnesses and surveillance cameras.
I had him take a polygraph two days ago and he failed. He's lying about all sorts of stuff. I have a trust-worthy witness and this is what I know. He and a small group of friends went to a piano bar and he met "S." They engaged in dirty dancing, kissing, and groping, the went outside for more, My witness said they all walked to the hotel together, but she and her roommate went to bed. "S" and husband and a couple more went to the hotel bar. They were not discreet with their kissing and groping.
My husband won't admit to what happened next, though he remembers walking "S" back to her room. My witness says "S" came stumbling into the room between 2 and 3 am. He's told me a lot of bs stories about what happened. He's convinced whatever happened is a buried memory.
Here's where you come in. He went to see our family doctor who told him to lay off the alcohol and sent him to a local psychologist. Turns out, she's a recovering alcoholic who has not had a drink in, I think, 35 years. The polygraph examiner also mentioned alcohol while talking to me on the phone, and his written report just got to me, which says he's lying in a major way.
I'm going to see the psychologist next Monday. I already have feelings of hostility toward her, because she says a one-night-stand is just a dalliance. She wants my husband to taper off the quit drinking. Fine, I'll quit, too. I'm ticked, because she says it's possible that he remembers everything but what went on in the few missing hours. He remembers everything but the sex. I call bull. The polygraph examiner calls bull. But at least alcohol with be out of the way and my thinking will be clearer.
Thank you. I did cut way back on alcohol after the last time I posted. I did lose it last Sunday when I was doing research on STDs.
On December 21st my husband let slip that he had kissed a woman at a conference. This happened almost ten years ago and some of you might shrug if off. He told me the next next day (he was in another state) but told me a lie, a major lie, in which they had drinks, and he innocently escorted he to he room, she shocked him by kissing him and asking her into her room. He told her he was happily married and didn't do such things. Total lie. He only told me what could be verified by witnesses and surveillance cameras.
I had him take a polygraph two days ago and he failed. He's lying about all sorts of stuff. I have a trust-worthy witness and this is what I know. He and a small group of friends went to a piano bar and he met "S." They engaged in dirty dancing, kissing, and groping, the went outside for more, My witness said they all walked to the hotel together, but she and her roommate went to bed. "S" and husband and a couple more went to the hotel bar. They were not discreet with their kissing and groping.
My husband won't admit to what happened next, though he remembers walking "S" back to her room. My witness says "S" came stumbling into the room between 2 and 3 am. He's told me a lot of bs stories about what happened. He's convinced whatever happened is a buried memory.
Here's where you come in. He went to see our family doctor who told him to lay off the alcohol and sent him to a local psychologist. Turns out, she's a recovering alcoholic who has not had a drink in, I think, 35 years. The polygraph examiner also mentioned alcohol while talking to me on the phone, and his written report just got to me, which says he's lying in a major way.
I'm going to see the psychologist next Monday. I already have feelings of hostility toward her, because she says a one-night-stand is just a dalliance. She wants my husband to taper off the quit drinking. Fine, I'll quit, too. I'm ticked, because she says it's possible that he remembers everything but what went on in the few missing hours. He remembers everything but the sex. I call bull. The polygraph examiner calls bull. But at least alcohol with be out of the way and my thinking will be clearer.
Thank you. I did cut way back on alcohol after the last time I posted. I did lose it last Sunday when I was doing research on STDs.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Have him go to the family doctor and get tested for STD's.
Should humble him a little and also give you two a clean slate
as far as disease anyway.
I actually prefer church counseling.
Worked very well for my wife and I 8 years ago.
M-Bob
Should humble him a little and also give you two a clean slate
as far as disease anyway.
I actually prefer church counseling.
Worked very well for my wife and I 8 years ago.
M-Bob
You can have reasons, or you can have results, but you can't have both.
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,232
That Really Stinks! Sorry to Hear!!!
Sorry for such a painful situation! I hate to say this, but I think you'd better manage your expectations here. I had a semi-similar experience...
I live in a very liberal state, and it's reflected in our tolerance for things like infidelity. Some years ago, when my husband was starting to pursue another woman, I insisted we go to counseling. Well the psychologist's approach was to help him "find his innermost feelings and desires" and then "act upon them." She confronted me a lot, challenging me about why I objected to his long absences with this other woman. Asking if I might negotiate with him, to establish certain days and nights he might be allowed to see her.
We separated (his decision, with her encouragement). I phoned the psychologist to confront her, saying "If you're working with someone who's sexually attracted to children, do you encourage them to 'find and manifest their True Self?'" She responded that I was imposing my personal views of morality on other people.
Well, damned right I was. I don't believe in moral relativism. Wrong is wrong. Infidelity is wrong.
Bottom line: I wouldn't necessarily expect a psychologist to factor in Right and Wrong. I think your best bet is to establish boundaries of self-respect fitting for this situation in which you have a profoundly deceitful spouse and a somewhat enabling psychologist.
And do quit drinking. It works wonders for self-esteem and for setting anti-BS boundaries. If you get sober, you'll probably see very quickly what you need to do.
I live in a very liberal state, and it's reflected in our tolerance for things like infidelity. Some years ago, when my husband was starting to pursue another woman, I insisted we go to counseling. Well the psychologist's approach was to help him "find his innermost feelings and desires" and then "act upon them." She confronted me a lot, challenging me about why I objected to his long absences with this other woman. Asking if I might negotiate with him, to establish certain days and nights he might be allowed to see her.
We separated (his decision, with her encouragement). I phoned the psychologist to confront her, saying "If you're working with someone who's sexually attracted to children, do you encourage them to 'find and manifest their True Self?'" She responded that I was imposing my personal views of morality on other people.
Well, damned right I was. I don't believe in moral relativism. Wrong is wrong. Infidelity is wrong.
Bottom line: I wouldn't necessarily expect a psychologist to factor in Right and Wrong. I think your best bet is to establish boundaries of self-respect fitting for this situation in which you have a profoundly deceitful spouse and a somewhat enabling psychologist.
And do quit drinking. It works wonders for self-esteem and for setting anti-BS boundaries. If you get sober, you'll probably see very quickly what you need to do.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Yes, I'm only going on Monday to profile her. There is a therapist in this town who specializes in infidelity. From the little my husband's told me about her, she is a major rug sweeper and told him I've been struggling with the "S" issue for years. Wrong. She also told him he made a "mistake." Hardly. The flirting and groping went on for quite awhile. He was not drunk and could have come to his senses at any point.
As someone who drinks, I can honestly say that anytime I drink, it's a choice. Unless I reach for a bottle of water and find someone put vodka in it, I made the choice to take a drink. I'm not 21 and someone handed me a beer bong. My husband was 47 when he made that choice. I'm giving him a month. And, yes, I'll quit drinking because it really doesn't help a damn thing.
As someone who drinks, I can honestly say that anytime I drink, it's a choice. Unless I reach for a bottle of water and find someone put vodka in it, I made the choice to take a drink. I'm not 21 and someone handed me a beer bong. My husband was 47 when he made that choice. I'm giving him a month. And, yes, I'll quit drinking because it really doesn't help a damn thing.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,837
Just to play devils advocate- I once cheated on a boyfriend while drinking.
I do not remember meeting the guy, flirting with him at the bar, going home, getting in a spat with him, having sex with him.
I just woke up and he was beside me.
I seriously don't remember a thing.
The sad thing is that I was deeply deeply in love with my boyfriend at the time.
Alcohol is very bad
Xoxo
I do not remember meeting the guy, flirting with him at the bar, going home, getting in a spat with him, having sex with him.
I just woke up and he was beside me.
I seriously don't remember a thing.
The sad thing is that I was deeply deeply in love with my boyfriend at the time.
Alcohol is very bad
Xoxo
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 283
I understand it was a shock but this happened 10 years ago? and you are having your husband do polygraphs?
I also can't parse whose alcohol intake is problematic.
I hope you can find a way to live in the present. apologies if I have read any of your post wrong.
I also can't parse whose alcohol intake is problematic.
I hope you can find a way to live in the present. apologies if I have read any of your post wrong.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Susan,
I went through a similar experience, and based on your reaction (polygraph, huge anger, etc) whether you've finally gotten proof now of something that you've suspected/worried/feared for a long time is true?
It's not important for me to know the answer to this question, but I think it is important for you. Because one incident 10 years ago is a far cry from a constant undercurrent of mistrust.
I feel for your pain and hope that the very first thing you do is to look after yourself and begin your healing by putting aside the alcohol altogether.
xo
I went through a similar experience, and based on your reaction (polygraph, huge anger, etc) whether you've finally gotten proof now of something that you've suspected/worried/feared for a long time is true?
It's not important for me to know the answer to this question, but I think it is important for you. Because one incident 10 years ago is a far cry from a constant undercurrent of mistrust.
I feel for your pain and hope that the very first thing you do is to look after yourself and begin your healing by putting aside the alcohol altogether.
xo
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,497
Of course you are welcome here. I hope you find some peace in your life.
I have to say, I am shocked that you would have your husband do a polygraph test, just stunned. Trust is essential for a good relationship.
I have to say, I am shocked that you would have your husband do a polygraph test, just stunned. Trust is essential for a good relationship.
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
This sounds awful. I'm so sorry.
Yes, it is possible that he doesn't remember the sex. It's not that uncommon... sex is the last thing to happen during a night like that, and on a night like that alcoholics often don't remember the last few hours. I've never cheated on anyone thank god, but I've made some stupid sexual decisions that I only barely remember.
I recognize where you're coming from. I just got out of a relationship with a man I couldn't trust, and it really does eat you from the inside. I have a lot of empathy for you. I agree with the other posters that you really need to focus your attention ahead of you here. The polygraph test, the honing in on all the details, all of that... how is that going to help? Is there really some kind of detail that you need about the sex itself to make your decision about whether you want to try to fix this or not? At a certain point you're just torturing yourself. You have to really put a hold on those feelings and think, what kind of satisfaction am I trying to get from this process, and is it really possible?
It really doesn't matter what the therapist thinks. It matters what you think. If this is unforgivable in your book, then that's ok. No one else has to agree with you. These are your boundaries to set.
And if you decide that it's not unforgivable, and you want to work through it, then at a certain point you have to stop focusing on the incident and start focusing on your feelings and how you mend the relationship.
Good luck. I really do feel for you.
Yes, it is possible that he doesn't remember the sex. It's not that uncommon... sex is the last thing to happen during a night like that, and on a night like that alcoholics often don't remember the last few hours. I've never cheated on anyone thank god, but I've made some stupid sexual decisions that I only barely remember.
I recognize where you're coming from. I just got out of a relationship with a man I couldn't trust, and it really does eat you from the inside. I have a lot of empathy for you. I agree with the other posters that you really need to focus your attention ahead of you here. The polygraph test, the honing in on all the details, all of that... how is that going to help? Is there really some kind of detail that you need about the sex itself to make your decision about whether you want to try to fix this or not? At a certain point you're just torturing yourself. You have to really put a hold on those feelings and think, what kind of satisfaction am I trying to get from this process, and is it really possible?
It really doesn't matter what the therapist thinks. It matters what you think. If this is unforgivable in your book, then that's ok. No one else has to agree with you. These are your boundaries to set.
And if you decide that it's not unforgivable, and you want to work through it, then at a certain point you have to stop focusing on the incident and start focusing on your feelings and how you mend the relationship.
Good luck. I really do feel for you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
I probably did not explain myself as well as I should have. A little less than 10 years ago, my husband attended on of his many business conferences. As usual, he called me one morning, and said, you will not believe what happened to me. I pretty well spelled it out in my initial post.
For years, we had a joke about "S" going on. "Oh, you won't rub my shoulder? Bet "S" will." Me: "Okay. Tell her to come over and she can rub mine too. Tell her to pick up a pizza, too." Just stupid nonsense.
Then, on December 21st we were watching a show in which my husband's childhood crush was starring. She had the same first name as "S" but is no longer with us. My husband joked that he would just have to settle for kissing "S." I said, What? You didn't kiss her, she kissed you. Let's just say, he really put his foot in his mouth.
His story is still changing, though he admits they likely had sex. His new counselor said the sex must have been so traumatic, he blocked it which I'm not buying. What we know from his storytelling and a reliable witness, a small group walked to a piano bar where they drank and danced. My husband and this woman he just met, kissed and groped, went outside so they could do a better job of it.
The rest of the gang left the bar and my husband the woman went with them. "S's" roommates went up to their room and fell asleep. Husband and "S" went to the hotel bar. In the wee hours of the morning, "S" stumbled into the room she shared. No one was surprised because "S" and my husband were, in no way, cool about what they were up to,
Anna, I joined a site called, "Surviving Infidelity." I was very confused when I first posted. Serial cheaters tend to behave in similar fashions, and they always recommend polygraphs. I thought it was strange, but my husband was changing his story every single day. Glad I did it.
For years, we had a joke about "S" going on. "Oh, you won't rub my shoulder? Bet "S" will." Me: "Okay. Tell her to come over and she can rub mine too. Tell her to pick up a pizza, too." Just stupid nonsense.
Then, on December 21st we were watching a show in which my husband's childhood crush was starring. She had the same first name as "S" but is no longer with us. My husband joked that he would just have to settle for kissing "S." I said, What? You didn't kiss her, she kissed you. Let's just say, he really put his foot in his mouth.
His story is still changing, though he admits they likely had sex. His new counselor said the sex must have been so traumatic, he blocked it which I'm not buying. What we know from his storytelling and a reliable witness, a small group walked to a piano bar where they drank and danced. My husband and this woman he just met, kissed and groped, went outside so they could do a better job of it.
The rest of the gang left the bar and my husband the woman went with them. "S's" roommates went up to their room and fell asleep. Husband and "S" went to the hotel bar. In the wee hours of the morning, "S" stumbled into the room she shared. No one was surprised because "S" and my husband were, in no way, cool about what they were up to,
Anna, I joined a site called, "Surviving Infidelity." I was very confused when I first posted. Serial cheaters tend to behave in similar fashions, and they always recommend polygraphs. I thought it was strange, but my husband was changing his story every single day. Glad I did it.
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I don't think I was confused in the first place.
My stance remains that if you felt compelled to insist on a polygraph you're suspicions are not likely brand new based on your husband "letting it slip" that he kissed her rather than the other way around.
Please understand that as I said before the answer is not important to me. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I just think I see something I recognize in you and hope that you are being 100% honest with yourself about what's going on here. I wasn't and it cost me several years of grief and really hard drinking.
I've been to that site and my recollection is that there was a lot of advice from women that were surviving infidelity by staying right where they were - in relationships with men who habitually cheated on them.
Regardless of whether all or some of the above ticks you off, I hope that you will put your health and sanity at the very top of the pile by giving up drinking altogether. It will be tremendously helpful in dealing with everything else on your plate.
My stance remains that if you felt compelled to insist on a polygraph you're suspicions are not likely brand new based on your husband "letting it slip" that he kissed her rather than the other way around.
Please understand that as I said before the answer is not important to me. Perhaps I'm projecting, but I just think I see something I recognize in you and hope that you are being 100% honest with yourself about what's going on here. I wasn't and it cost me several years of grief and really hard drinking.
I've been to that site and my recollection is that there was a lot of advice from women that were surviving infidelity by staying right where they were - in relationships with men who habitually cheated on them.
Regardless of whether all or some of the above ticks you off, I hope that you will put your health and sanity at the very top of the pile by giving up drinking altogether. It will be tremendously helpful in dealing with everything else on your plate.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
Sorry for your pain Susan;
It seems like this event is still in the present for both of you despite
10 years passing--frankly, it sounds like it
is destroying your relationship.
What outcome are you hoping for here?
It seems like this event is still in the present for both of you despite
10 years passing--frankly, it sounds like it
is destroying your relationship.
What outcome are you hoping for here?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 77
Thanks. Sometimes on the more serious site like this one, I need to go back and read posts several times. I mean, like a full week.
For anyone who thinks it happened so long ago that I should let it go. No. He's been lying to me all these years. When he told me his extremely edited version, I found the story somewhat amusing. I could picture him backing away from this aggressive woman, waving his hands cartoon style. In fact, and I can share this here, I smiled and thought she assumed he wanted an affair, while he really wanted a drinking buddy.
It wasn't until December 21st that he accidentally spilled. Right before Christmas when family was in town. Put yourselves in my shoes. It just happened. We didn't talk about it much because that day he flew home from Texas. I'd had an incredibly busy day, including picking up his horrid mother from a Greyhound station, getting my autistic son to and from summer school, baking a cake and cleaning, because the next day was our major family vacation. There's a lot more, but it's too much. You don't want to know.
He has told me so many lies about what happened, you would not believe it. As far as drinking and remembering, trust me, I know. But according to his current story, he just met her that day, she kissed and rubbed up against him and aroused him, they went outside to carry on even more, they went back to the hotel with the group, then he remembers walking her back to her room. Not one single second's memory of the three or so hours they were missing? Come on!
I'm in no way perfect. Stalk my posts, if you like. But I've honored and respected my vows and feel I have wasted so many years with someone who has no such respect for me. At least I know. Has he had other affairs? That's something he flunked.
Our doctor, the counselor, my good friend, Sober Recovery, Surviving Infidelity have one thing in common. Knock off the drinking.
For anyone who thinks it happened so long ago that I should let it go. No. He's been lying to me all these years. When he told me his extremely edited version, I found the story somewhat amusing. I could picture him backing away from this aggressive woman, waving his hands cartoon style. In fact, and I can share this here, I smiled and thought she assumed he wanted an affair, while he really wanted a drinking buddy.
It wasn't until December 21st that he accidentally spilled. Right before Christmas when family was in town. Put yourselves in my shoes. It just happened. We didn't talk about it much because that day he flew home from Texas. I'd had an incredibly busy day, including picking up his horrid mother from a Greyhound station, getting my autistic son to and from summer school, baking a cake and cleaning, because the next day was our major family vacation. There's a lot more, but it's too much. You don't want to know.
He has told me so many lies about what happened, you would not believe it. As far as drinking and remembering, trust me, I know. But according to his current story, he just met her that day, she kissed and rubbed up against him and aroused him, they went outside to carry on even more, they went back to the hotel with the group, then he remembers walking her back to her room. Not one single second's memory of the three or so hours they were missing? Come on!
I'm in no way perfect. Stalk my posts, if you like. But I've honored and respected my vows and feel I have wasted so many years with someone who has no such respect for me. At least I know. Has he had other affairs? That's something he flunked.
Our doctor, the counselor, my good friend, Sober Recovery, Surviving Infidelity have one thing in common. Knock off the drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 74
I'm sorry you're going through such a horrible time. The feeling of betrayal is the absolute worst especially by someone you love and you've clearly given so many years to. The polygraph does seem extreme but I must admit there have been times I would have loved to have made certain people do it.
I think whatever happens- get yourself strong and clear headed, that way you can take your time and work out how to move forward. Good luck and look after yourself
I think whatever happens- get yourself strong and clear headed, that way you can take your time and work out how to move forward. Good luck and look after yourself
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Originally Posted by Anna 
I have to say, I am shocked that you would have your husband do a polygraph test, just stunned. Trust is essential for a good relationship.
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