Looking for advice- we are talking tonight

Old 02-02-2016, 09:40 AM
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Looking for advice- we are talking tonight

My ABF and I plan to talk tonight to figure out what we are doing. I haven't seen him in a week due to his constant drinking. He asked if we could talk tonight. I need to set clear boundaries with him and define what we are. Long story short- he either needs to get help with detox and rehab or we need to stop dating. I don't think he is ready for help, but he is close to losing everything: kids, parents, job, me, his life because he drinks that much. Thanks to so much reading I've done from here, I've been trying to set clear boundaries and have been working hard to set them and stick to them.

My goal tonight is to be strong, clear, and maybe even say some magical thing that makes him realize what all he is about to lose and that he needs to get help asap. I know that is probably unrealistic and manipulative, but I'm desperate here.

So, my stance is as long as you are an active alcoholic taking no steps toward recovery, we can't date. You can't come to my house, around my kids, unless you ask in advance and you are sober. No more calling or texting me if you have been drinking. If you honestly have no intention on changing your life and stop drinking, then we need to end this now and just part ways as I have no interest in dating an active alcoholic. When/if you are ready to get help, I will absolutely be first in line to support you and help with your kids while you are gone.

What else can I say? What am I missing? It is going to hurt, because I do miss him a lot and wish things would work out, but things can't continue as they have. He gets me EVERYTIME by playing the victim and saying "if you were the one with the problem, I would never walk away from you, I would help you." But I've tried and tried and it isn't helping because nothing can help but him finally deciding to get professional inpatient help.

I'm rambling, I'm sorry, I'm exhausted & nervous! I just need support and advice from those who have been through it. What works, where my mindset needs to be, how to stay strong and committed to my boundaries, etc. I appreciate any advice you have!
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:06 AM
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So, my stance is as long as you are an active alcoholic taking no steps toward recovery, we can't date. You can't come to my house, around my kids, unless you ask in advance and you are sober. No more calling or texting me if you have been drinking. If you honestly have no intention on changing your life and stop drinking, then we need to end this now and just part ways as I have no interest in dating an active alcoholic. When/if you are ready to get help, I will absolutely be first in line to support you and help with your kids while you are gone.
Very good boundaries to set but be sure to stick to them. Alanon saved my sanity and helped me change so I stopped being attracted to alcoholics. Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:11 AM
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My goal tonight is to be strong, clear, and maybe even say some magical thing that makes him realize what all he is about to lose and that he needs to get help asap. I know that is probably unrealistic and manipulative, but I'm desperate here.

I had a lot of those same feelings when I lay down that boundary. At first it was just like everything else I'd done. I had the hope that THIS would be THE THING that got through to him and made him realize that he needs help. I was always sure that sobriety was just around the corner- this trip to the ER, this night in jail, this barfight, this car wreck, this whatever, was going to be IT. And I was terrified that if I left, I would miss the miracle and maybe even lose him to someone else who would get the "perfect" relationship that I was sure he and I would have once he finally got sober. No way that was happening after all the work and energy *I* put into trying to save him. That kind of thinking was my disease. He doesn't owe me anything. He didn't want or need me to save him from himself. After I finally put the energy I used to waste making ultimatums and trying to negotiate and nag him to sobriety into actually enforcing the only boundary that mattered, he happily rearranged his life to revolve around alcohol and ensure that he could continue to drink in uninterrupted peace and comfort.
There are no magic words. You want advice? Here it is: Ignore his manipulation. If you were the one with "the problem," in what alternate universe would he be capable of or willing to actually help you? Save your breath. Save your energy. Tell him over the phone that you'll be glad to talk to him again when he has 365 consecutive days of sobriety and spend the time and energy you were going to waste on this man doing something fun with your children tonight instead of volunteering for continued pain and manipulation. This whole situation is pretty much an invitation for him to lie and make empty promises.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:29 AM
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Ladyscribbler really said it all. As long as you have any idea, any wild hope that YOU can somehow say the magic thing to make him stop drinking, you are bound for disappointment.

I came here almost 3 years ago, after finding out that XAH had been pretending to go to AA meetings and meanwhile continuing to drink secretly and spend our savings for the previous 4 years (and that was preceded by 12 years of the same behavior minus the pretend AA meetings). I too thought after each step further down the road, "OK, now after THIS he HAS to get it! He HAS to see the light!" And no, he never did. He still does not. But it's not my problem any more.

This
There are no magic words. You want advice? Here it is: Ignore his manipulation. If you were the one with "the problem," in what alternate universe would he be capable of or willing to actually help you? Save your breath. Save your energy. Tell him over the phone that you'll be glad to talk to him again when he has 365 consecutive days of sobriety and spend the time and energy you were going to waste on this man doing something fun with your children tonight instead of volunteering for continued pain and manipulation. This whole situation is pretty much an invitation for him to lie and make empty promises.
is pure gold.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:33 AM
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The only thing I will add is...we all drink for a reason so there is some pain deep down in there somewhere. Just being cognizant of that is the difficult part.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by TP770 View Post
The only thing I will add is...we all drink for a reason so there is some pain deep down in there somewhere. Just being cognizant of that is the difficult part.
TP, I don't believe there is a human being on the face of the earth who doesn't have "some pain deep down in there somewhere."

I personally do not appreciate an A coming to this section of the forum and stating that A's all have a "reason" (read "excuse"?) to drink and that the rest of us should be "cognizant of that". Reads like pure BS to me.

That is all.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:08 AM
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Indeed, every single person here can rattle off a laundry list of demons afflicting our qualifiers. In fact, most of us have probably, at one time or another, been more in touch with our qualifiers' pain than with our own. As I've said before, most of us have known our qualifiers better than we've known ourselves--something we've worn as a badge of honor in the past, but that we learn, through recovery, is a pretty dysfunctional way to live.

So yes, TP--Jules' boyfriend surely has endless pits of terrible pain. Pain that may very well be dragging down a bottomless pit of alcohol. But that does not mean Jules needs to go down with the ship. Her responsibility is to HERSELF. She can take care of herself, she can even go no contact with her boyfriend, and still feel compassion for him and his pain. It is her boyfriend's job to identify his pain and work through it.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:11 AM
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Thank you, Wisconsin, for saying it in a much more articulate manner.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:17 AM
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ladyscribbler is right--meeting tonight will just hurt you.
Actions and not talk are what this person needs to demonstrate.
I understand you want to "get through to him" but everything
you and everyone else around him has said hasn't worked yet
and it won't until, and only if, he's ready to do it for him.

You're setting yourself up for more manipulation and disappointment.
I also think it's a bad idea to offer to care for his kids if he gets "help" because
there's an excellent chance he'll use that as a tactic to keep you roped in to his
crazy cycle.

Step back and let him show you he means it. Nothing to talk about beyond that.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:17 AM
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Thanks honeypig. I'm struggling with finding an updated Alanon list for my town, but I do believe they could help me. I appreciate the suggestion!
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr View Post
Very good boundaries to set but be sure to stick to them. Alanon saved my sanity and helped me change so I stopped being attracted to alcoholics. Good luck!
Thanks honeypig. I'm struggling with finding an updated Alanon list for my town, but I do believe they could help me. I appreciate the suggestion!
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:20 AM
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Jules, try this site http://www.al-anon.org/ to find a meeting near you. So glad to hear you're considering!
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:21 AM
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Thank you all so much for the amazing advice. I've copied all the words of wisdom down and sent it to my phone to never forget it, especially all that you said ladyscribbler.

I was reluctant to reach out, but so glad that I did. I can't thank you all enough.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:58 AM
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since he's been drinking constantly there's a good chance he'll just blow you off tonite OR show up drunk. i think you could save yourself a lot of grief and just be done dating an active alcoholic....PERIOD. rather than setting up some carrot on a stick and then having to wait around and see if he tries to catch it. your boundary of I do not date active alcoholics is really all you need. he can then suss out for himself whether he is reay to tackle sobriety or not and you can be busy getting on with your own life. and don't so willingly volunteer to do ALL YOU CAN to support HIS recovery......
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:15 PM
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I pretty much was thinking what Anvil said, you say your boundary is to NOT date an active alcoholic (then don't) but then you change the boundary to rules…..you can’t come to my house, around my kids, unless you ask in advance and are sober, etc.

Just because an alcoholic hasn’t consumed alcohol that day doesn’t mean they are sober. I would educate yourself on alcoholism and what typical alcoholic behavior is.

The manipulating conversation you want to have is an attempt to get him to CHANGE from who he is and become who you want him to be and I agree with the others – you are setting yourself up for lots of hurt and disappoint.
Dating is about getting to know a person and once we discover things that don’t sit well with us about the person we stop dating them we don’t’ try and get them to change.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:16 PM
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TP-I am sure that with your logic you'll also see that all serial killers and rapists have a large amount of pain and trauma they're burying - uh huh, so we are supposed to be aware and cognizant of that?! Um no. You run far and fast away and don't ask why, like I did from my ex.

Jules-oh my. I've so been there-I second lady's post word for word-that's exactly how I felt!! It is a setup-I've so been sitting right in your position-in fact I was there only a little over a year ago-and my hopes beyond hopes was that my ex had really changed and was not going to hurt me anymore. Predictably, he had not-and has actually only gotten worse. I second the advice to let h know he can call you when/if he gets his sh*t together.

Atalose! Yes-so true to remind us of the point of dating good words.

Peace to you!
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:42 PM
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atalose! Everything that you said is exactly why I was feeling like I needed help and wasn't been clear with myself (which meant I wouldn't be clear later with him). It IS a boundary turned into rules and I AM just hoping to set up some manipulating conversation to get him to change, when I need to be focusing on myself and my boundaries. YES!

And so true- we date to get to know someone to get to know them and we decide to continue or to not, it is not our responsibility to try to change them. YES!!

Anvilheadll- so true! It is as simple as that- my boundary is I don't date an active alcoholic. There is nothing to argue. YES!

Forourgirls- you have helped me before I think we have a lot in common and I always appreciate your wisdom.

I am usually quite in touch with my feelings and articulate, but this whole thing as just overwhelmed me to the point I feel I can't think straight and then I'm coming across wishy-washy with him and I don't want to. I'm saving all of your life-saving advice to remind myself each day. I feel so clear now and empowered and I thank you all SO MUCH!!!
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:06 PM
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You go girl!!
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:44 PM
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Just seeing this. Know I am here, reading this supporting you!

I know it's so hard. Many hugs. Keep empowering yourself to do what is right. Your gut will tell you what that is if you listen. Look at actions, not words.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:26 PM
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If you have it clear in your mind - what you can live with then be honest and its all you can do. In reply to standing by him or you if it was reversed. I get this and can understand, but my answer would be you tried but the behaviors are what has caused this. And the behaviors are linked to the drinking. Then I would try without sounding preachy to ask him to think about the things in his life that arent going right, like work I think you said. Ask him to really think if whats behind it is the drinking. Denial is hard to break. I was once addicted and my husband helped me begin to realize I needed help because he slowly helped me see it was possible my addiction was a problem. At least I should see my doctor and be honest. This got therapy started and was the end of my addiction over 5 years now.

But you can only do so much. Your boundaries are for you and thats the bottom line. I think you didnt get to this point easily and you sound confident. I wish you good luck tonight.

Im here because of my husband now (who has prescription and alc issues recently). I am finding help at Smart Recovery, their ideas follow my overall goals.

Be strong and kind.

Originally Posted by imjules View Post
My ABF and I plan to talk tonight to figure out what we are doing. I haven't seen him in a week due to his constant drinking. He asked if we could talk tonight. I need to set clear boundaries with him and define what we are. Long story short- he either needs to get help with detox and rehab or we need to stop dating. I don't think he is ready for help, but he is close to losing everything: kids, parents, job, me, his life because he drinks that much. Thanks to so much reading I've done from here, I've been trying to set clear boundaries and have been working hard to set them and stick to them.

My goal tonight is to be strong, clear, and maybe even say some magical thing that makes him realize what all he is about to lose and that he needs to get help asap. I know that is probably unrealistic and manipulative, but I'm desperate here.

So, my stance is as long as you are an active alcoholic taking no steps toward recovery, we can't date. You can't come to my house, around my kids, unless you ask in advance and you are sober. No more calling or texting me if you have been drinking. If you honestly have no intention on changing your life and stop drinking, then we need to end this now and just part ways as I have no interest in dating an active alcoholic. When/if you are ready to get help, I will absolutely be first in line to support you and help with your kids while you are gone.

What else can I say? What am I missing? It is going to hurt, because I do miss him a lot and wish things would work out, but things can't continue as they have. He gets me EVERYTIME by playing the victim and saying "if you were the one with the problem, I would never walk away from you, I would help you." But I've tried and tried and it isn't helping because nothing can help but him finally deciding to get professional inpatient help.

I'm rambling, I'm sorry, I'm exhausted & nervous! I just need support and advice from those who have been through it. What works, where my mindset needs to be, how to stay strong and committed to my boundaries, etc. I appreciate any advice you have!
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