Co-dependent in non-alcoholic relationships
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Co-dependent in non-alcoholic relationships
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic for 7 years as his ragingly co-dependent enabler until I finally broke it off. It felt empowering to take back control over my life and be on my own, until I slipped back into my life-long pattern of needing a relationship (to prove I am worthy).
I have realized since then, after dating several men with all sorts of issues, that I am still the raging co-dependent. Of course I knew that it takes work, not just the end of a relationship, but was under the illusion that I had read so much, thought so much, and worked so much on me that I am better. Well, I am not. At my core, I am still horribly insecure and I still do everything to please a man so he will stick around. I want to save them from whatever it is I think they need saving from, I will latch onto them and put everything else on hold, I will forgive the most ridiculous behaviors because I will find a way to rationalize them (I am really really REALLY good at rationalizing crummy behavior).
I will get a therapist and I will do the work now because if I don't, I will never be happy because I will always feel I need a man to validate my worth because I can "make him a better person" or "help him." But in the meantime, I am wondering what you did to overcome this? What are/were your strategies?
I have realized since then, after dating several men with all sorts of issues, that I am still the raging co-dependent. Of course I knew that it takes work, not just the end of a relationship, but was under the illusion that I had read so much, thought so much, and worked so much on me that I am better. Well, I am not. At my core, I am still horribly insecure and I still do everything to please a man so he will stick around. I want to save them from whatever it is I think they need saving from, I will latch onto them and put everything else on hold, I will forgive the most ridiculous behaviors because I will find a way to rationalize them (I am really really REALLY good at rationalizing crummy behavior).
I will get a therapist and I will do the work now because if I don't, I will never be happy because I will always feel I need a man to validate my worth because I can "make him a better person" or "help him." But in the meantime, I am wondering what you did to overcome this? What are/were your strategies?
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 600
I stay in my lane. I only take my own inventory, not other people's. I only can control or change how I think, react, and behave. I cannot control or change other people. Live and let live. I stopped trying to change other people and focused on changing myself.
Happiness is an inside job. Has nothing to do with external people, places, or things.
I have self worth just because I am a child of God. I feel good about myself by how I choose to think, act, and behave.
I work on telling myself that the tapes from childhood that I am unworthy, not good enough, etc. are lies told to me by spiritually sick people.
The book "Codependent No More" at other books by the same author are very helpful.
Happiness is an inside job. Has nothing to do with external people, places, or things.
I have self worth just because I am a child of God. I feel good about myself by how I choose to think, act, and behave.
I work on telling myself that the tapes from childhood that I am unworthy, not good enough, etc. are lies told to me by spiritually sick people.
The book "Codependent No More" at other books by the same author are very helpful.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
I took a good long break from relationships once my therapy got rolling. I was fresh out of a divorce and a horribly codependent subsequent relationship immediately after. I had never lived on my own before, so the first year was a lot about keeping myself and my dog fed, sheltered and safe. It was the foundation I needed in order to build a strong, trusting relationship with myself first and foremost.
I won't lie I was lonely for awhile. But I surrounded myself with good friends who loved and accepted me just I was, flaws and all. I tried things. I succeeded at some stuff, didn't fare so well in others and I survived it all. I began to let go of toxic people. Soon my loneliness shifted into relishing time to myself. I learned not just to survive but thrive. It still ended up that when I did get into a relationship three years later, it was with an alcoholic. But my eyes were open, I knew what I was doing. I think I needed that to prove once and for all that nothing I could have ever done would have changed my alcoholic mother. When that relationship descended, inevitably, into the usual pattern, I ended it, firmly and decisively because for the first time in my life I KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I deserved better, and that being alone was better than being with someone who did not respect me.
Shortly thereafter I met my DH and we've been happily married for five and a half years. My life is unrecognizable from when I started this journey.
For me, the key was stepping outside of my comfort zone and resisting that voice that was telling me that unless I was someone's girlfriend, I had no value, and then allowing time to do its job.
I won't lie I was lonely for awhile. But I surrounded myself with good friends who loved and accepted me just I was, flaws and all. I tried things. I succeeded at some stuff, didn't fare so well in others and I survived it all. I began to let go of toxic people. Soon my loneliness shifted into relishing time to myself. I learned not just to survive but thrive. It still ended up that when I did get into a relationship three years later, it was with an alcoholic. But my eyes were open, I knew what I was doing. I think I needed that to prove once and for all that nothing I could have ever done would have changed my alcoholic mother. When that relationship descended, inevitably, into the usual pattern, I ended it, firmly and decisively because for the first time in my life I KNEW beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I deserved better, and that being alone was better than being with someone who did not respect me.
Shortly thereafter I met my DH and we've been happily married for five and a half years. My life is unrecognizable from when I started this journey.
For me, the key was stepping outside of my comfort zone and resisting that voice that was telling me that unless I was someone's girlfriend, I had no value, and then allowing time to do its job.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Hi!!! I remember your story...
I think a good combo is therapy, NO DATING for a good long time (maybe a year), cultivating your interests and figuring out how amazing you are, finding a full life without that other person...
When I did this I found that I could EASILY have dated tons of guys. Suddenly you're this confident woman they all want to be with--and you're out doing interesting things--
But what I also saw as I talked to many of these guys was huge dysfunction or neediness...I think it's a rare thing to find an emotionally healthy person...and you'll know you're ready when you won't even entertain the crappy ones long at all...
I dated a guy for a few months and was into him in a healthy way...he started a conversation with me in which I could tell he was lying and push-pulling me...I was deeply disappointed but left him with a "Good night, Mark", knowing in my heart I would never see him again and not bothering to explain it and try to convince him why I was right. He called a few more times and it was over.
My friends were kind of confused when I was bouncing off the walls elated that I had seen his crap and walked away and it was done...they thought I'd be upset the relationship was over...yes, it hurt...but I was so proud of ME and trusting myself...
Small acts of putting you first...I think we can learn it all, but practicing is the important part...
There was a post a day or so ago about a free online "trust" lesson from Brene Brown...there's a part on self-trust and an exercise too--that might be helpful. We can't give what we don't have ourselves.
You can do this!!!
I think a good combo is therapy, NO DATING for a good long time (maybe a year), cultivating your interests and figuring out how amazing you are, finding a full life without that other person...
When I did this I found that I could EASILY have dated tons of guys. Suddenly you're this confident woman they all want to be with--and you're out doing interesting things--
But what I also saw as I talked to many of these guys was huge dysfunction or neediness...I think it's a rare thing to find an emotionally healthy person...and you'll know you're ready when you won't even entertain the crappy ones long at all...
I dated a guy for a few months and was into him in a healthy way...he started a conversation with me in which I could tell he was lying and push-pulling me...I was deeply disappointed but left him with a "Good night, Mark", knowing in my heart I would never see him again and not bothering to explain it and try to convince him why I was right. He called a few more times and it was over.
My friends were kind of confused when I was bouncing off the walls elated that I had seen his crap and walked away and it was done...they thought I'd be upset the relationship was over...yes, it hurt...but I was so proud of ME and trusting myself...
Small acts of putting you first...I think we can learn it all, but practicing is the important part...
There was a post a day or so ago about a free online "trust" lesson from Brene Brown...there's a part on self-trust and an exercise too--that might be helpful. We can't give what we don't have ourselves.
You can do this!!!
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
No idea where in the world you are but it might be worth looking to see if there is a CoDa group there. I have only managed to get to a few meetings, but when I did they were really enlightening. I also found their hand book and work book really helpful - these are available on-line. For me, many of my 'issues' came from childhood & adolescence and living in an emotionally dysfunctional household, and it helped me to see how I was transferring a lot of my fears; anxieties; and resentments and these were manifesting as codependent behaviours and reactions. I've also found that some 'inner child' recovery work has helped me.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello Kimmieh, and welcome back 
yup, I've done that. When I received the final divorce papers from ex #1 I considered those my "diploma" from Al-anon and stopped working on myself.
I'm the "protector" type. I swoop in on my white steed and rescue them from the jaws of the dragon. Bad habit I picked up as a child in an alcoholic home. Would probably work really well if I lived in the middle ages and there still were dragons, but I live in a big city and the closest I've ever come to a dragon was this tiny lizard.... 
Goodness, me too. My sponsor calls it "pink flag syndrome". Whenever there is a red flag in a relationship my brain somehow changes the color to pink. "It's not _that_ bad" I think "once she gets in therapy she will change", etc. etc. It's also an outdated survival skill from my childhood.
Several things. I have given up on the notion that I will someday overcome and be perfect. I now follow the concept of "progress not perfection". I've had two relationships since my pill-addicted wife and I have done better and better in each one.
I now understand that my problem is one of "reflexes". When I first start going out with someone my first, initial thoughts happen almost like a reflex, without really evaluating the facts. These reflexes are _always_ wrong, so I have learned to ignore them.
One lady I was dating shared that she had been thru 20 husbands in 30 years. My first reflexive thought was "wow, she's had a rough life". sheesh, how blind can I be ?? I ignored that reflex of mine and took a little time to slowly evaluate that fact. Then it became rather easy to see many other little "signals" that made it clear this lady was not a good match for me.
I hold on hard to the concept that "I would rather live alone than wish I did."
The concept of "relationship addiction" really applies to me. If I find myself feeling _way_ good and constantly thinking about a new person I just met it means I am getting "high" on that relationship. Time to let go.
I have gotten back into ACA the last few years, because my issues all come from those old survival skills of childhood. That has made a huge difference.
Today I find myself attracted to much healthier women. Not rage-alcoholics, not addicts, not professional trophy wives. I take things _very_ slow because I know that the faster I move in a relationship the faster I will end up face-first on the pavement. Speed is my enemy.
I don't think I will ever get rid of those reflexes, but what I am doing is slowly reducing the "volume" on those so I can instead listen to the healthier part of my brain. The part that says "15 children from 8 husbands ?!?!?, there is something wrong here!!!"
Mike
Originally Posted by Kimmieh 
... but was under the illusion that I had read so much, thought so much, and worked so much on me that I am better....
Originally Posted by Kimmieh
... I want to save them from whatever it is I think they need saving from...
Originally Posted by Kimmieh
...I am really really REALLY good at rationalizing crummy behavior ...
Originally Posted by Kimmieh
... what you did to overcome this? What are/were your strategies?...
I now understand that my problem is one of "reflexes". When I first start going out with someone my first, initial thoughts happen almost like a reflex, without really evaluating the facts. These reflexes are _always_ wrong, so I have learned to ignore them.
One lady I was dating shared that she had been thru 20 husbands in 30 years. My first reflexive thought was "wow, she's had a rough life". sheesh, how blind can I be ?? I ignored that reflex of mine and took a little time to slowly evaluate that fact. Then it became rather easy to see many other little "signals" that made it clear this lady was not a good match for me.
I hold on hard to the concept that "I would rather live alone than wish I did."
The concept of "relationship addiction" really applies to me. If I find myself feeling _way_ good and constantly thinking about a new person I just met it means I am getting "high" on that relationship. Time to let go.
I have gotten back into ACA the last few years, because my issues all come from those old survival skills of childhood. That has made a huge difference.
Today I find myself attracted to much healthier women. Not rage-alcoholics, not addicts, not professional trophy wives. I take things _very_ slow because I know that the faster I move in a relationship the faster I will end up face-first on the pavement. Speed is my enemy.
I don't think I will ever get rid of those reflexes, but what I am doing is slowly reducing the "volume" on those so I can instead listen to the healthier part of my brain. The part that says "15 children from 8 husbands ?!?!?, there is something wrong here!!!"
Mike
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
I've recently dipped a toe back into the dating pool after a 2 and a half year hiatus from romantic relationships. I spent that time working my Alanon recovery, getting really involved in service work, developing friendships and spending time with my family which allowed me to work on my bad relationship habits and poor communication skills without the added confusion of romantic attachment and filling my life with things that I like and want so that I'm not falling into the old thinking of "needing" a relationship to complete me or my life.
Admittedly this is still in the experimental stages, but so far so good. I'm learning to date casually (no jumping in the sack on the first date, or at all yet), set boundaries, not to have expectations for any particular encounter beyond a cup of coffee and some conversation and to be discriminating about who I am choosing to spend my time on. I'm doing online dating, so any red flags in the initial email gets a polite "no thank you."
This means anyone who mentions being unemployed or looking for a place to live, anyone who sends a 2 a.m. drunkmail, anyone with no profile picture or a username that's something like "BigBone69" and another catchall category of general "weirdos" like guys who send 4 angry block paragraphs of text complaining about their lives. Also anyone whose profile picture looks like Newman from Seinfeld (that's more of a personal preference, some women might be really into that). I also told one guy who slipped through the cracks (married but "separated" geographically, not legally) to hit the bricks after 20 minutes. It only took that long because I wasn't going to leave without finishing my hot chocolate. It was really good.
Anyway, you get the idea. I'm practicing my new, normal personality. I wait at least a half hour before replying to an email or text. I make lots of plans that have nothing to do with dates. In short, I'm learning to make room for dating and relationships in my life instead of having my life revolve around dating relationships as I have in the past.
This is a really good topic. Codependency is a "disease" of relationships, and even though I'm no longer living daily with active alcoholism or addiction, it will continue to crop up in my other relationships, especially if I'm not working a strong recovery program.
Admittedly this is still in the experimental stages, but so far so good. I'm learning to date casually (no jumping in the sack on the first date, or at all yet), set boundaries, not to have expectations for any particular encounter beyond a cup of coffee and some conversation and to be discriminating about who I am choosing to spend my time on. I'm doing online dating, so any red flags in the initial email gets a polite "no thank you."
This means anyone who mentions being unemployed or looking for a place to live, anyone who sends a 2 a.m. drunkmail, anyone with no profile picture or a username that's something like "BigBone69" and another catchall category of general "weirdos" like guys who send 4 angry block paragraphs of text complaining about their lives. Also anyone whose profile picture looks like Newman from Seinfeld (that's more of a personal preference, some women might be really into that). I also told one guy who slipped through the cracks (married but "separated" geographically, not legally) to hit the bricks after 20 minutes. It only took that long because I wasn't going to leave without finishing my hot chocolate. It was really good.
Anyway, you get the idea. I'm practicing my new, normal personality. I wait at least a half hour before replying to an email or text. I make lots of plans that have nothing to do with dates. In short, I'm learning to make room for dating and relationships in my life instead of having my life revolve around dating relationships as I have in the past.
This is a really good topic. Codependency is a "disease" of relationships, and even though I'm no longer living daily with active alcoholism or addiction, it will continue to crop up in my other relationships, especially if I'm not working a strong recovery program.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
I might be quite "selfish" in my recovery, I so do not want a relationship, and I so do not want to share anything with anyone romantically at the moment. I am actually making a bucket list, of things I want to do, exploring my wishes and desires, what makes me happy, what I wanna do, and where I wanna go. And it is me, me, and more about me.
+
I must reconnect with my family and old friends. I must go back to my roots. This is where I find strength. Relationships can wait.
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I must reconnect with my family and old friends. I must go back to my roots. This is where I find strength. Relationships can wait.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 517
Thanks all! This is really helping. I am having a tough time right now because this last relationship is in some sort of limbo state that I don't understand. I want to be prepared to not escape into another one. I really need to stop this because my picker is totally off, apparently. Two people in a row who I thought were at the very least decent and loyal and have done complete 180s on me that other people probably would have seen coming...
I am a bit raw at the moment and can't respond in detail, butI am reading carefully here! <3
I am a bit raw at the moment and can't respond in detail, butI am reading carefully here! <3
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 816
Much wisdom on this thread!! Thanks everyone.
I completely agree it is necessary to be alone and really get to know yourself before getting into romantic relationships. If you don't, well you know the saying, insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different outcome.
Without time to get to really know yourself, likes, dislikes, dreams, goals, vision, boundaries, needs, wants, you will keep doing the same thing.
The more I learn about this dynamic of alcoholic and codependent, I am understanding we codependents lose ourselves in others because of our own fear of failure, or not being enough.
So take the time to discover you are enough!
I completely agree it is necessary to be alone and really get to know yourself before getting into romantic relationships. If you don't, well you know the saying, insanity is doing the same thing over & over and expecting a different outcome.
Without time to get to really know yourself, likes, dislikes, dreams, goals, vision, boundaries, needs, wants, you will keep doing the same thing.
The more I learn about this dynamic of alcoholic and codependent, I am understanding we codependents lose ourselves in others because of our own fear of failure, or not being enough.
So take the time to discover you are enough!
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Alcoholics don't turn people into codependents. Alanon made the biggest difference in my recovery. While therapy is indeed useful. Alanon directly deals with my issues and helps me steer clear of alcoholics and other unavailable people.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by NYCDoglvr
Alcoholics don't turn people into codependents. Alanon made the biggest difference in my recovery. While therapy is indeed useful. Alanon directly deals with my issues and helps me steer clear of alcoholics and other unavailable people.
Alanon did. I've found it's resolved issues which therapy never got anywhere near, not least because sharing by other Adult Children of Alcoholics provided a very clear mirror for me.
And it's free!
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