Watching my toxic dance
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New England, USA
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Watching my toxic dance
I'm struggling with a situation at hockey where the mom of a child who was mistreating my son (and others, on our team and opposing ones) is on the attack because I spoke against it to her.
My friends have kind of dropped off the radar since this all happened, but there's one whose kid is on the same team as mine who I see frequently. She's been uncharacteristically quiet on the topic, which is surprising since before I addressed the issue she was frustrated about the kid's behavior.
The mom with the badly behaved kid is popular and persuasive, and I've watched her smear people's reputations - her ex husband's, his mistress', and also other folks' for reasons not clear to me. I can only imagine what she's saying about me, and I've been trying to find out, but getting stonewalled by my friend on the team. They are working on a big project together for the association. If the other mom wasn't saying anything, wouldn't my friend say she hasn't heard anything??
Getting stonewalled by a friend surprises and disappoints me. The other night I passive aggressively retaliated by bringing up a topic that I know gets her ramped up and watched her rip while *I* sat calmly back. I know the resentment, paranoia, and retaliation bring me closer to a drink, but I'm afraid (fear) that if I let it go, my reputation will be wrecked (pride). Fear, pride and anger played starring roles in my 4th and 5th steps.
Today her kid played dirty and got kicked out of a game, but I didn't stay calm and feel vindicated. I didn't let it go. Instead I started digging more and more to my friend about what the other mom is saying about me (pride). My friend stonewalled me again, so I ramped up my efforts (anger). I feel rejected by my group of friends because of this one friend's actions. Afterwards I felt embarrassed that I didn't let the kids behavior speak for itself (pride).
This whole thing is making me a hot mess! My dad was at the game, and afterwards I started telling him the story. Mid story, I heard myself recounting it and I sort of cringed.
There is so much going well in my life. I'm 22 months sober, and I have a wonderful sponsor who's working the steps with me. How have others let go of worrying about friends, social status, and reputation, and stayed focused on what matters?
My friends have kind of dropped off the radar since this all happened, but there's one whose kid is on the same team as mine who I see frequently. She's been uncharacteristically quiet on the topic, which is surprising since before I addressed the issue she was frustrated about the kid's behavior.
The mom with the badly behaved kid is popular and persuasive, and I've watched her smear people's reputations - her ex husband's, his mistress', and also other folks' for reasons not clear to me. I can only imagine what she's saying about me, and I've been trying to find out, but getting stonewalled by my friend on the team. They are working on a big project together for the association. If the other mom wasn't saying anything, wouldn't my friend say she hasn't heard anything??
Getting stonewalled by a friend surprises and disappoints me. The other night I passive aggressively retaliated by bringing up a topic that I know gets her ramped up and watched her rip while *I* sat calmly back. I know the resentment, paranoia, and retaliation bring me closer to a drink, but I'm afraid (fear) that if I let it go, my reputation will be wrecked (pride). Fear, pride and anger played starring roles in my 4th and 5th steps.
Today her kid played dirty and got kicked out of a game, but I didn't stay calm and feel vindicated. I didn't let it go. Instead I started digging more and more to my friend about what the other mom is saying about me (pride). My friend stonewalled me again, so I ramped up my efforts (anger). I feel rejected by my group of friends because of this one friend's actions. Afterwards I felt embarrassed that I didn't let the kids behavior speak for itself (pride).
This whole thing is making me a hot mess! My dad was at the game, and afterwards I started telling him the story. Mid story, I heard myself recounting it and I sort of cringed.
There is so much going well in my life. I'm 22 months sober, and I have a wonderful sponsor who's working the steps with me. How have others let go of worrying about friends, social status, and reputation, and stayed focused on what matters?
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 845
Gleefan, one of my favorite recovery sayings is "what other people think of me is none of my business." Is it a possibility to just let the gossip around the hockey thing go? Sometimes conflict boils up in social groups, and it isn't always for reasons that are right or fair, but it usually blows over if we don't stir the pot. I know how you feel because I often get consumed by worry about what other people think, but I've learned that so long as I feel OK with how I behave and treat others, what other people think truly doesn't matter. I like to cultivate friends in different areas of my life so that if I have some tension with one group, I can just turn my attention to another area while it blows over. Do you have other friend groups who aren't hockey moms? Recovery friends? Or maybe it's time to cultivate a new hobby/friend group?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Have you talked with your sponsor about this stuff? What does she say?
I have a feeling your friend is trying to stay OUT of this whole debacle--which seems to me like a smart move since no good can come of engaging in gossip. Suppose this woman IS saying awful things about you. SO WHAT? How would your knowing it do you any good? What are you going to do--go meet with anyone she might have repeated it to and plead your "case"? That would be ineffective and would reflect more poorly on you and your own dignity than it would her.
Look, one of the most useful lessons I've learned in my life is (a) not everyone will like me--and sometimes the reasons for dislike will be unfair or unreasonable and (b) they are ALLOWED to dislike me--for whatever reason. Heck, I don't like everyone I meet--even a lot of people who are perfectly OK human beings. Sometimes they just rub me the wrong way, or they might remind me of someone else I disliked. I'm not nasty to them, but I might be cool or distant toward them.
Let it go. "What other people think of me is none of my business."
I have a feeling your friend is trying to stay OUT of this whole debacle--which seems to me like a smart move since no good can come of engaging in gossip. Suppose this woman IS saying awful things about you. SO WHAT? How would your knowing it do you any good? What are you going to do--go meet with anyone she might have repeated it to and plead your "case"? That would be ineffective and would reflect more poorly on you and your own dignity than it would her.
Look, one of the most useful lessons I've learned in my life is (a) not everyone will like me--and sometimes the reasons for dislike will be unfair or unreasonable and (b) they are ALLOWED to dislike me--for whatever reason. Heck, I don't like everyone I meet--even a lot of people who are perfectly OK human beings. Sometimes they just rub me the wrong way, or they might remind me of someone else I disliked. I'm not nasty to them, but I might be cool or distant toward them.
Let it go. "What other people think of me is none of my business."
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
gleefan.....I can speak to this sort of thing in general terms.....I have had lots of opportunity to observe community groups over the years.....
This kind of crap happens in groups.....and, it is well defined by sociologists who study that sort of thing.....
My feeling on the subject is that when you find yourself swept up in it and begin to feel tormented, emotionally.....it is time to expand your other areas of life and drop back from the group in question.....
Mostly, it is a tempest in a tea cup sort of thing.....and petty, petty , petty......
Life is too vast and important to exhaust your adrenals on small stuff in small ponds......expand your horizons....turn your attentions elsewhere....and, you will find that this shrinks in importance in the big picture......
Also...."Pride goeth before the fall"
dandylion
This kind of crap happens in groups.....and, it is well defined by sociologists who study that sort of thing.....
My feeling on the subject is that when you find yourself swept up in it and begin to feel tormented, emotionally.....it is time to expand your other areas of life and drop back from the group in question.....
Mostly, it is a tempest in a tea cup sort of thing.....and petty, petty , petty......
Life is too vast and important to exhaust your adrenals on small stuff in small ponds......expand your horizons....turn your attentions elsewhere....and, you will find that this shrinks in importance in the big picture......
Also...."Pride goeth before the fall"
dandylion
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Do you really care what she thinks?? Or says for that matter? She sounds like a nosy gossip that has corralled a group of kiss asses that ask "how High" when she says "jump". NO THANKS.
Fact of the matter is if you did know what she said about you exactly what could you do about it? Nothing. Best thing to do is ignore her. Don't bring it up with your friends. If asked, or if comes up....say you don't care to discuss her nor do you care what she says about you because she is a gossip.
Don't give her any power. Trust someone has run back to her and told her inquiring minds want to know what the queen has said. She loves that!
Take up knitting. More productive and stress relieving.
Fact of the matter is if you did know what she said about you exactly what could you do about it? Nothing. Best thing to do is ignore her. Don't bring it up with your friends. If asked, or if comes up....say you don't care to discuss her nor do you care what she says about you because she is a gossip.
Don't give her any power. Trust someone has run back to her and told her inquiring minds want to know what the queen has said. She loves that!
Take up knitting. More productive and stress relieving.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 3,958
Thank you, all. 
My sponsor's suggestions are similar to all of yours, that I pull back from this social group and I let this go. We even did an exercise where we both wrote down things that we need to let go, and put it in a box.
I'm at a point in my recovery where I understand why I need to let it go, but back in the dark recesses is that insecure girl who thinks she needs to plead her case (as Lexie referenced).
There's also the girl who's angry that no one is sticking up for her. During my 4th and 5th steps I realized my parents didn't stick up for me when I was mistreated by their partners.
I guess I needed some corroboration that doing something different and letting it go wouldn't harm me in some way. I really appreciate you all taking the time to explain this new approach to me, and also how you think through it.
I do have other social outlets, fortunately. In fact last night my husband and I went out to dinner with a couple that's not a part of this group, and I was sharing my dilemma. My friend said that she decided to stay out of her children's PTO that several of her mom friends are involved in due to dynamics that were similar to my hockey dynamic.
This morning I'm headed to a game I'm going to try to keep my behavior oriented toward recovery, serenity, peace, and joy. I'm not going to pry about what she said. I'm not going to plead my case. I'm going to watch my son play and be friendly. Well I'm going to try!
Thanks for talking me through this. I'm so grateful to have folks like you to turn to for ESH!! ((((Hugs))))
My sponsor's suggestions are similar to all of yours, that I pull back from this social group and I let this go. We even did an exercise where we both wrote down things that we need to let go, and put it in a box.
I'm at a point in my recovery where I understand why I need to let it go, but back in the dark recesses is that insecure girl who thinks she needs to plead her case (as Lexie referenced).
There's also the girl who's angry that no one is sticking up for her. During my 4th and 5th steps I realized my parents didn't stick up for me when I was mistreated by their partners.
I guess I needed some corroboration that doing something different and letting it go wouldn't harm me in some way. I really appreciate you all taking the time to explain this new approach to me, and also how you think through it.
I do have other social outlets, fortunately. In fact last night my husband and I went out to dinner with a couple that's not a part of this group, and I was sharing my dilemma. My friend said that she decided to stay out of her children's PTO that several of her mom friends are involved in due to dynamics that were similar to my hockey dynamic.
This morning I'm headed to a game I'm going to try to keep my behavior oriented toward recovery, serenity, peace, and joy. I'm not going to pry about what she said. I'm not going to plead my case. I'm going to watch my son play and be friendly. Well I'm going to try!
Thanks for talking me through this. I'm so grateful to have folks like you to turn to for ESH!! ((((Hugs))))
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
gleefan.....one of the things that I was going to ask....was if any of this mirrors or corresponds to other similar experiences in your childhood or in school.....but, your sponsor beat me to it.....LOl!....
Seems like you have identified why this galls you so much.....now, you can w
through it with your sponsor, your therapist or such..
As I said before, this sort of crap happens in these k inds of groups.....I saw it in my children's sports groups....and in other groups, also......
As people jocky for their place in the group.....you will see people ating out their own p ersonal pathologies, all over the place. Sometimes, it almost comes to physical blows......
For me....I always took the attitude....I am here to see my child perform, mainly.... And, even at that...I was mostly unnecessary....
I am of the opinion that children don't need their parents at every single game...or, hardly at all.....And, as they get ol der...they need them less and less...
When you see these gung-ho parents at games....it is mostly the parents acting out their needs....not the needs of the child.....
I agree...just observe the game and keep socialization to a civil and, very casual level.....
while we are on this subject...I will say that my kids taught me...that they didn't need or WANT my commentary about the game. Not during the game...or afterward.
dandylion
Seems like you have identified why this galls you so much.....now, you can w
through it with your sponsor, your therapist or such..
As I said before, this sort of crap happens in these k inds of groups.....I saw it in my children's sports groups....and in other groups, also......
As people jocky for their place in the group.....you will see people ating out their own p ersonal pathologies, all over the place. Sometimes, it almost comes to physical blows......
For me....I always took the attitude....I am here to see my child perform, mainly.... And, even at that...I was mostly unnecessary....
I am of the opinion that children don't need their parents at every single game...or, hardly at all.....And, as they get ol der...they need them less and less...
When you see these gung-ho parents at games....it is mostly the parents acting out their needs....not the needs of the child.....
I agree...just observe the game and keep socialization to a civil and, very casual level.....
while we are on this subject...I will say that my kids taught me...that they didn't need or WANT my commentary about the game. Not during the game...or afterward.
dandylion
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 3,958
You all are so awesome and supportive.
I suspected what Dandy said all along regarding adults' behavior at their childrens' sports (or school, or band, or scouts, or whatever the child is involved in).
I'm in kind of a unique situation to observe this because my older son has autism. He's very high functioning, right on the cusp of typical, and can do lots of what typically developing kids can do with school and sports - except make friends.
He's only a couple years older than the son whose team I'm talking about. He plays hockey too. Peer groups (and therefore parents) overlap.
I knew something was amiss with my older one when as a toddler I couldn't socialize vicariously through him. I say this half kiddingly because, honestly, his struggle in group settings is how I realized he had social issues.
As a stay at home mom, it was tough to not have anyone who wanted play dates with my oldest! During step work I realized this micro-trauma is playing out in the younger one's hockey drama too. I am very jealous of parents who have the choice to live vicariously through their children's social and athletic success. Who don't have to trail their kid's every move and provide that exhausting scaffolding that I have to.
One time I dropped the older one off at a birthday party with this mixed age group and we got a text that he fell asleep. Fell asleep in the middle of a pool party with his buddies! While I'm friends with the moms and my husband is friends with the dads, we don't get included in family/kid stuff. One time we were accidentally given the wrong day for a picnic, we showed up with the kids, and the family was hosting a birthday party with all our friends' kids. It's was pretty embarrassing.
I guess I have a lot to work through.
I suspected what Dandy said all along regarding adults' behavior at their childrens' sports (or school, or band, or scouts, or whatever the child is involved in).
I'm in kind of a unique situation to observe this because my older son has autism. He's very high functioning, right on the cusp of typical, and can do lots of what typically developing kids can do with school and sports - except make friends.
He's only a couple years older than the son whose team I'm talking about. He plays hockey too. Peer groups (and therefore parents) overlap. I knew something was amiss with my older one when as a toddler I couldn't socialize vicariously through him. I say this half kiddingly because, honestly, his struggle in group settings is how I realized he had social issues.
As a stay at home mom, it was tough to not have anyone who wanted play dates with my oldest! During step work I realized this micro-trauma is playing out in the younger one's hockey drama too. I am very jealous of parents who have the choice to live vicariously through their children's social and athletic success. Who don't have to trail their kid's every move and provide that exhausting scaffolding that I have to.
One time I dropped the older one off at a birthday party with this mixed age group and we got a text that he fell asleep. Fell asleep in the middle of a pool party with his buddies! While I'm friends with the moms and my husband is friends with the dads, we don't get included in family/kid stuff. One time we were accidentally given the wrong day for a picnic, we showed up with the kids, and the family was hosting a birthday party with all our friends' kids. It's was pretty embarrassing.
I guess I have a lot to work through.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 574
Life can show us who is important and shares our values. Stand tall and proud because you already know the secret by caring for your son. My girls, both grown with a child of their own, continue to teach me about 'life'. I would take that over someone who plays this kind of game. My youngest was a 'busy' child ... diagnosed with adhd around 12. She was very social and I trusted few. At her soccer games, she would harass me about not socializing with the other parents. She ignored me at times, left me to collect my things while going on ahead to the car, expressed anger about me sitting alone while reading a book during the breaks. I explained that I wasn't always reading the book, but I liked having it because then I didn't hear the things they would say about each other or other parents. When she was grown, she understood and liked that I did what I needed to do and was glad that I was not 'one of those' parents.
Do something that makes you happy, each day. Maybe something that you fear. Something new .... it grows us more confidence, inner peace and being able to stop the focus on someone else's deed.
Also - as you work your program and change ... you may outgrow your old friendships. I have given up two of my best friends in the last 3 months because I can now see who they were and who they are. I don't fit in with that any longer. Sure it's sad but I feel freer than I ever have.
Best to you, stay focused .... you can do this !
Hugs
Joie
Do something that makes you happy, each day. Maybe something that you fear. Something new .... it grows us more confidence, inner peace and being able to stop the focus on someone else's deed.
Also - as you work your program and change ... you may outgrow your old friendships. I have given up two of my best friends in the last 3 months because I can now see who they were and who they are. I don't fit in with that any longer. Sure it's sad but I feel freer than I ever have.
Best to you, stay focused .... you can do this !
Hugs
Joie
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
gleefan, sorry to hear you are struggling , on the bright side , awareness is on your side. You speak clearly of your current struggles , and I believe the fact that you know what the underlying issues are , will help you to arrive at a better place.
I will share this with you, I have not spoken one word to my best friend of 50+ years in over a month, no Merry Christmas or Happy New Year exchanged, no how you doing today, ( as we have talked everyday for the last 50+ years) and while I am concerned for her, and her well being, I just cannot be dragged into her unacceptable crazy, crazy world. Which reminds me of one of my favorites, let go or be dragged.
Try not to take others actions, words/ or lack of actions and words too personal. You never really know what others are struggling/ dealing with, and sometimes the best we can do is protect ourselves, distance ourselves, and remain silent, less is more.
My personal thought, you are consumed with the poor actions and choices of this kid and the mother, I'd be searching for a much healthier focus for my life. You certainly know , your thoughts and words are not going to change these folks, so perhaps focus that energy on something that will have positive results, something to add joy to your life.
And a big congrats to you on 22 months sober, way to go!
I will share this with you, I have not spoken one word to my best friend of 50+ years in over a month, no Merry Christmas or Happy New Year exchanged, no how you doing today, ( as we have talked everyday for the last 50+ years) and while I am concerned for her, and her well being, I just cannot be dragged into her unacceptable crazy, crazy world. Which reminds me of one of my favorites, let go or be dragged.
Try not to take others actions, words/ or lack of actions and words too personal. You never really know what others are struggling/ dealing with, and sometimes the best we can do is protect ourselves, distance ourselves, and remain silent, less is more.
My personal thought, you are consumed with the poor actions and choices of this kid and the mother, I'd be searching for a much healthier focus for my life. You certainly know , your thoughts and words are not going to change these folks, so perhaps focus that energy on something that will have positive results, something to add joy to your life.
And a big congrats to you on 22 months sober, way to go!
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,042
Hey gleefan! Congratulations on 22 months and a program of recovery! It's progress, not perfection. Your awareness that your stress over this situation is a tad over-the-top is important if you want to change your reactivity.
Over the last 4 months I've been embroiled in some nasty work politics that really test my ability to restrain pen & tongue and remember that the only thing I can control is me. I try to avoid conversations that will make me speculate about others' motives, create resentments, and feed them with gossip. I literally tell people, hey, there's nothing I can do here, so call me if you need me for something real.
Can you use that tactic at games? Find yourself some service there that will keep your hands busy but your tongue and mind easy? You might consider it avoiding the problem, but you could also consider it accepting the fact that you can't control others, even when their behavior affects your own son. That's hard!
Over the last 4 months I've been embroiled in some nasty work politics that really test my ability to restrain pen & tongue and remember that the only thing I can control is me. I try to avoid conversations that will make me speculate about others' motives, create resentments, and feed them with gossip. I literally tell people, hey, there's nothing I can do here, so call me if you need me for something real.
Can you use that tactic at games? Find yourself some service there that will keep your hands busy but your tongue and mind easy? You might consider it avoiding the problem, but you could also consider it accepting the fact that you can't control others, even when their behavior affects your own son. That's hard!
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 3,958
You all have such good perspectives and everyone said something that resonated. I'm very grateful for this fellowship!!
Courage - It's wonderful to see you!! It sounds like we're both growing.
Honestly it's a miracle for me to be here sober, seeking ways to diffuse conflict. I first came over to the friends and family side to work through my befuddlement over how to handle my relationship with my husband, who was still drinking after I stopped. I saw myself not just in the folks who couldn't understand why their spouses still drank -- but also in their descriptions of their alcoholic spouses' behavior. It opened my eyes to ME, my toxic patterns, and helped me get real and see my role in life's challenges.
I don't want to minimize my husband's willingness to work hard to get our relationship to a more stable place. I don't know if I would have "seen" it if I didn't look more deeply at my own pathologies. Looking at myself realistically and "keeping my side of the street clean" is my ESH for those just starting out on their recovery journeys.
Courage - It's wonderful to see you!! It sounds like we're both growing.
Honestly it's a miracle for me to be here sober, seeking ways to diffuse conflict. I first came over to the friends and family side to work through my befuddlement over how to handle my relationship with my husband, who was still drinking after I stopped. I saw myself not just in the folks who couldn't understand why their spouses still drank -- but also in their descriptions of their alcoholic spouses' behavior. It opened my eyes to ME, my toxic patterns, and helped me get real and see my role in life's challenges.
I don't want to minimize my husband's willingness to work hard to get our relationship to a more stable place. I don't know if I would have "seen" it if I didn't look more deeply at my own pathologies. Looking at myself realistically and "keeping my side of the street clean" is my ESH for those just starting out on their recovery journeys.
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