Branches

I'm coming here to vent and to get some clarity and input.

The last time my DH got riproaring drunk was about three weeks ago. While he was drunk, he experienced a major asthma attack, and I went to the store to get some Primatene tablets and managed to also find one of those personal steamers. Fast forward to today. The man keeps thanking me for getting him the steamer. Every time he does, it reminds me of that evening. So this morning he thanks me again, and then a few minutes later tells me that I should never complain about my sister being messy because I left a small dust buster on the hall table and haven't taken it out to my car. When he was drunk he said I should never complain about my sister because I'm just as lazy. Folks, my sister is two steps shy of a hoarder - and I can honestly say I'm not. But instead of asking me to take it to my car, he says that. We had a spat where I told him I could compare him to his sister also - who's a liar and an addict - but I don't. So later on he apologizes. I apologize for m y part and tell him he doesn't have to thank me anymore for the steamer and why. He says he understands, and then follows up with:
"Boy, it's a good thing that driver missed me the other day or we wouldn't be having this conversation. I could have been killed."
Is this supposed to make me feel guilty because I brought his drunken behavior up?
"So, hubby, why are you saying this right now?"
"Well, just because, you never know what can happen in this life. And it made me realize you guys NEED me. I just need to take care of myself, and I keep to myself, you know, I'm kind of a loner because I don't have anything in common with X, Y, and Z (all high school friends and all drinkers and stoners). They're not spiritual."
"I understand, hubby. But maybe you could make some new friends."
"No."
"You're saying there are no Christian men out there who share your love o f music and play guitar and like to ski?"
"Yeah, but I've found most of those guys are boring."
Quack. Quack. "I'm unique." Quack.
I felt a wave of discouragement. He's a dry drunk. I envision a long road ahead before he becomes anything like an emotionally mature human being, and in the meantime, I don't like him much. I'm going to Alanon, working on my issues, but I just felt very discouraged and depressed after this exchange. Thanks for listening.

LexieCat

You aren't obligated to hang around "in the meantime."

This sort of thing has been going on for a very long time, it sounds like. And even if he stays clean and sober in the not-drinking sense, you're right--it could be a very long time before he becomes the kind of partner you want.

If you're OK with that, hey, it's your life. Maybe he'll get there eventually. Personally, I'm not sure I would want to waste any more of my life.

Liveitwell

I'd say you have all the reasons in the world to have doubts-best to stick to your side of the street and he can stick to his. If he feels he should have new friends, he will go find them-or not.

totfit

No such thing as a "dry" drunk.

Refiner

Ok, I'll take your obvious bait... I don't agree. Someone who simply stops drinking without stopping their abusive behavior (manipulation, lies, anger, aggression, etc) IS a dry drunk.

Branches

Thanks for listening.

I used the term "dry" drunk just to refer to someone who's not drinking but not working on recovery.

Lexie, I appreciate your wise words. I am early in my codie recovery too. I'd like to be a little stronger in my own head before I make a permanent decision regarding my marriage - this is marriage number two - and it's been seven months since my dad died, who was my rock. I left my first husband right after my mom died and got involved with husband number two very shortly thereafter. Let's just say I'm not there yet and don't want to repeat my past. I do things on my own and for myself. Today I'm going art supply shopping and having lunch with my daughters and a friend. Tonight I'm going to a meeting. Tomorrow church. I said I was discouraged because one hopes if one's husband, whom one loves if not always likes, gets clean that certain issues in the marriage will improve. I know it's not a guarantee. I've read a lot of posts here - it doesn't seem like there's too many happy endings but I'm not ready to pull the cord on my marriage yet.

jjj111

So you mentioned in a previous post that you are also getting sober/in early sobriety? How's that going? Are you getting any support for that? It must be hard to be trying to sort out your own sobriety and your relationship with him at the same time. I imagine that there would be a lot of blame shifting in a relationship where both parties have resented the other's drinking. Must be hard to sort out your side of the street from his!

dandylion

Branches.....this is precisely why I have always thought that there should be a "law" that the alcoholic live separately from their loved ones during early recovery......that it would be a kindness for all involved. The whole family...every one....could use that time and space to get their bearings.

Early recovery can be a special kind of hell for many people---alcoholic and loved ones, alike.
I think it is an interesting observation that so many marriages will last for years---and, even decades, while the drinking is active. But, many of those same m arriages will break up after the alcoholic puts down the bottle......
There are many, many factors that co ntribute to this, I think......

There is much more to a good marriage than just the absence of drinking.....

dandylion

LexieCat

I get that--not wanting to make "permanent decisions" in the wake of grief from your father's death and the nuttiness of living with an alcoholic.

Getting a little distance might be the best possible thing for you right now, though. Have you considered a separation? It would give you both the opportunity to focus on your own issues and you the chance to see whether he's seriously committed to recovery and making progress toward becoming a real partner.

AnvilheadII

since it's only been 3 weeks since his LAST drunken event, i wouldn't put too much stock in much of anything he says or does right now. if you can try not to read any deeper meaning into his words....just let them be words.

you are correct, IF he was to begin growing up/maturing out TODAY, it's still a long road. even if NOT drinking becomes permanent. but if you are waiting for him to become a fully actualized present adult partner, you are likely just wasting your precious time.

Petcat

Firstly, I will speak from my experience as does everyone else here. I say that because it is worth remembering no two situations are the same. There is never only one way to deal with the sort of questions you are facing - nor is there one right way.

My younger sister (50) died last year from cirrhosis only a few months after her diagnosis. For the last four years of her life I rented her my investment house. At times I didn't like her either -addicts can be so selfish, petty, and self-absorbed and calculating hurtful or at least she was. But she never stopped being my little sister that I loved to bits. At times I would just have to walk away for a few days so neither of us would say words in the heat of the moment that could never be unsaid.

So how does this relate to you - I not sure. But for me if you love someone (despite not always liking them) you do hang in. I never did the tough love thing with my sister despite much advice from others to show her the door. Because as a woman I never wanted my sister to live on the streets.

This is sounding more about me than you. But you don't stay with a man because you don't wanted a second marriage not to work - you stay with him because you love him. My sister and I shared so much good times over that four years despite her hurting me more than anyone ever has.

Next time he is asleep and you look at him - think does he gladden your heart, make you smile despite the challenges or do you have a sick dread with your life is becoming, that sees no upside.

Take care

HoldOnLoosely

This is so true. My husband and I are one year into early recovery. His alcoholism probably kicked in 2-3 years ago so it was not a theme/issue in our marriage. Interestingly, it was his deep rooted issues that made early recovery so hellish.

I don't know. Drinking puts a strain on a marriage/relationship and then comes along the early recovery and more strain. Then, add tackling the deep rooted issues and EVEN more strain on the relationship. It takes a lot of hard work and it's quite the journey. It might take years. My marriage counselor once shared with me - it would take years for my husband and our marriage to be in a better place. Years... I can see it.

I'm sorry you are going through this. Take care of yourself. Keep posting. There's so much wisdom and support here. You have gotten excellent advice from everyone above.

Branches

Thank you, everyone for sharing your experience and wisdom.

As for my own sobriety, I bounce back and forth between both sides of SR, I go to Alanon and AA. My habit was generally three glasses of wine a night, and although I kind of miss it, I feel way, way, way better physically and much more sharp mentally without it. Tea in the evening has become my new best friend. My stomach also is very happy.

With deference to all of your experiences, I feel like we both need some AAs and sobriety under our belts before I make a definitive decision about this marriage. My DH would get Dr. Jekyll- Mr. Hyde drunk about two times a year, not an every day or every week thing. If that were the case, my decision would be a lot easier. I told him three weeks ago if it continued, I would leave him. We both decided to put down our respective vices - my wine and his pot / wine. Although he's much more of an ass drunk and much more lovable stoned, pot is more his weakness. He has been sober for long stretches of time in the past , as in three or four years at a time without a drink. As far as I know, he hasn't smoked or drank in three weeks. He's gone to one AA meeting and is going to another one tonight. Is he a ******** all of the time? No. Some of the time, like this morning, definitely. At this point in time, it seems to me to be a trifle dishonest to say, "Hey, if you don't sober up I will leave, " and then three weeks later when he's done what I've asked say, "I'm leaving anyway because you're an emotionally immature ******** at times." That could happen in the future, I don't know. But although I appreciate the suggestions to dump him now, I personally am not in the headspace to do it at the moment.

Let me perhaps be clearer. Is there anyone on this board who is still married to a recovering alcoholic? If so, what helped you.? What did you do for yourself? How did you handle the early days of your spouse's sobriety? That probably was the question I should have asked. That's really what I'm looking for.

dandylion

Branches......I didn't see where anyone suggested that you "dump him".....agreeing that early recovery can be really tough...and that sometimes some distance during that time can actually be easier and helpful (for all).....is not the same as saying "dump him".......
There are actually sober l iving houses that are created just for this purpose....because it is a good option for so me during early recovery.....

dandylion

Cyranoak

...I'm not sure "tough love," and "boundaries" are necessarily the same thing, and I don't believe either term means not helping people when you are willing and able to do so without hurting yourself or others.

With my alcoholics, I try to be aware, often successfully and sometimes not, why I am helping or not helping. Some of the filters I run it through are these:

1. Will it hurt me to do it?
2. Will it hurt them to do/not do it?
3. Can they do it themselves?
4. Can I do it?
5. Is it necessary it be done at all?
6. Do I want to do it?

I don't think boundaries or tough love ask you to put your loved ones on the street "just because," to make a point, or to teach "them" a lesson. I think boundaries or tough love ask you to do so if you have no choice in order to save yourself or your children.

Having said all of that, and as somebody who has not put my alcoholic on the street, I always wonder... if I did would she find permanent sobriety? Is the fact that I don't keeping her from finding recovery? Am I rationalizing to make myself feel better about myself? Why the **** am I still in this?

I don't know the answers to these questions. What I do know is I can't put her on the street right now. What I do believe is that, categorically, you DO NOT stay with people just because you love them if it hurts you or others to do so. There is no worse reason, and it is the epitome of codependency.

More will be revealed.

C-

OnlyOneProblem

My RAH is sober a little over 2 years. It has not been an easy time. Life with a recovering alcoholic will always have challenges. What is helpful? I work my program (Al-Anon) and he works his (AA). We are blessed to have a wonderful marriage counselor whom we see together and separately for the past 2 years. We celebrated our 10 year anniversary recently.

I began my program a couple years before he began his recovery. For me, this time gave me the clarity to know that I did not want to spend my future days on the crazy alcoholic merry go round. I was going to do what I needed to do for me and the only way I would consider a future with him was if he quit and worked a program. He quit and went to AA but was still heavily in denial. I withdrew from our relationship but remained in our home. I could have made it easy for him and moved out and divorced him but I wanted him to own his decision to drink. If that is what he wanted then he would need to own his decision to divorce me. We lived our own separate lives during this time and it was not until several months into his program that we considered working on our marriage. Those early MONTHS were all about the fog lifting. It takes time. He did 90 meetings in 90 days. Actually more. Most days he went to 2 meetings a day. We learned that stopping drinking didn't fix our problems. Life was better but there were still issues.

When "I" got a sponsor and started working the steps is when "I" began to learn how to better handle the times when he was triggered - which would always trigger me.

Al-Anon, my daily reading here on SR, marriage counseling, learning to stay on my side of the street and a growing relationship with my HP have all been instrumental in my serenity.

Sending you positive energy to carry you through the rough times.

redatlanta

Yes I am still with my husband and we have a healthy marriage. He relapsed 3 years ago or so for a couple of months. I was not with him the first go round of active alcoholism he was sober when we met.

I would say the health in our marriage has more to do with me making changes than him. Its a given that returning to sobriety was a big change for him, and for me a deal breaker. I wouldn't have stayed if he kept drinking.

Working the steps in Al Anon and ending my co=dependent behaviors is what I am talking about. I was very controlling mostly in a passive aggressive way rather than in an in your face way. I stopped living to fix my husband and his problems, and focused on fixing me and mine. I was a "do everything" in the house and marriage.. I had taken most of the responsibility willingly (more of that control thing) , yet I resented him for it. I stopped coddling him - he has health issues too - I just stopped it all. I allowed him to "grow up" rather than suffocate that with my do-everything fix-everything mentality, then bitch about it in my head.

Let me be clear, its not that he was fine, and I was all screwed up. He could be a complete asshat and strike up a conversation or defense very similar to your husband in defense of his own behavior. I don't feed into that anymore. The comment that your husband made about almost being killed and such - don't respond to ridiculous assertions which are nothing more than to deflect in someway his behavior or get a compliment out of you about how needed he is. Comparing you to your sister is another way for him to PA insult you. Don't feed into it by engaging in a list of proofs why you aren't your sister, or why he is more like his. These are circular conversations that get NOWHERE and its insulting (to you).

How I would have handled that would not be to tell him what he should say to me (why not just ask me to put it back in my car), I would say to him if it bothers him to put in my car for me, or that I will when I get around to it. End of discussion.

Work on yourself do the steps in Al Anon. It will change your marriage. I can't say that it will save it - or make it what you want it to be, but you have as good a chance of it being positive as negative.

Liveitwell

Red-thanks for your words! A lot of what you mentioned is exactly how I had become in my marriage-typical Codie traits, I guess. But stuff I saw and needed to work on. For sure. Congrats to both of y'all for doing the hard work.
Branches-it can be done....just takes two willing people to step out of denial.