HBO Documentary
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Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
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HBO Documentary
I was watching the HBO documentary on the heroin epidemic in Cape Cod. There are a bunch of 20 somethings featured in the film along with their grieving mothers/families. My heart aches for the families of these young addicts. Many of the addicts started on pain meds due to car accidents, injury, surgery etc... Maybe a dumb question but I'll say it anyway,
Isn't there some sort of diagnostic or at the very least, probability testing to find out if these young humans are addicts? Before they are prescribed opiates?
The other topic that struck a chord with me... these poor families affected by addiction are suffering in their own neighborhoods, place of work, and in their own community as a whole as they have been ostracized. These poor young souls are looked down upon like garbage and many do not want any involvement. One mother said "where's my casserole?"
When you're sick or someone in your family is sick with a physical ailment you receive tons of support and "casseroles" however because this is considered mental illness her support system suddenly vanished ...This mother wants her casserole, just as she has made for others. So sad.
I have been told the dealers purposely poison the heroin to increase sales. The word on the street about a few overdosing users simply means to an addict "oooh that's some good ****" where can I get that stuff. Being bullet proof, the knowledge of serial overdoses doesn't affect them negatively but does just the opposite by making the addict seek out the brand it was stamped with. I'm all over the map tonight. Just disgusted.
The government isn't doing enough. Why?
Isn't there some sort of diagnostic or at the very least, probability testing to find out if these young humans are addicts? Before they are prescribed opiates?
The other topic that struck a chord with me... these poor families affected by addiction are suffering in their own neighborhoods, place of work, and in their own community as a whole as they have been ostracized. These poor young souls are looked down upon like garbage and many do not want any involvement. One mother said "where's my casserole?"
When you're sick or someone in your family is sick with a physical ailment you receive tons of support and "casseroles" however because this is considered mental illness her support system suddenly vanished ...This mother wants her casserole, just as she has made for others. So sad.
I have been told the dealers purposely poison the heroin to increase sales. The word on the street about a few overdosing users simply means to an addict "oooh that's some good ****" where can I get that stuff. Being bullet proof, the knowledge of serial overdoses doesn't affect them negatively but does just the opposite by making the addict seek out the brand it was stamped with. I'm all over the map tonight. Just disgusted.
The government isn't doing enough. Why?
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
>>>>The government isn't doing enough. Why?<<<<<<
Because when they DO try to do their jobs, they get sued and/
or fired. We fire 80% of CPS workers to save $$ and when some
winner puts her baby in a microwave-----we look for blood....we want
the job and/or freedom of the person who had last official contact with
them. Ignore the fact that said worker had a caseload of 400, and fifteen
minutes/yr to devote to each of them.
So the game becomes CYA. Do everything you can to avoid exposure.
Just like MDs who order scads of unnecessary tests------to cover their butt.
Like so many industries I could name:
Give me everything, give it to me for cost (or less!!), and I don't care if you
have to liquidate your employees retirement to save me a nickel:
"I want that nickel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Vale doesn't pretend to have any answers, but he IS old enough to
remember a time when globalism didn't rule. He remembers a time
when globalism promised a short interlude of growing pains----
followed by an era of unprecedented wealth, happiness,
and reward for all.
We (as a planet)......bought that line of BS.
What we got the new feudalism. This isn't a personal whine,
my family and I are doing VERY well, thank you-----but few
can seriously deny the middle class is in freefall.
There is no more "government". If there was, Opana would not
have been rubber stamped through to approval like it just was.
Because when they DO try to do their jobs, they get sued and/
or fired. We fire 80% of CPS workers to save $$ and when some
winner puts her baby in a microwave-----we look for blood....we want
the job and/or freedom of the person who had last official contact with
them. Ignore the fact that said worker had a caseload of 400, and fifteen
minutes/yr to devote to each of them.
So the game becomes CYA. Do everything you can to avoid exposure.
Just like MDs who order scads of unnecessary tests------to cover their butt.
Like so many industries I could name:
Give me everything, give it to me for cost (or less!!), and I don't care if you
have to liquidate your employees retirement to save me a nickel:
"I want that nickel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Vale doesn't pretend to have any answers, but he IS old enough to
remember a time when globalism didn't rule. He remembers a time
when globalism promised a short interlude of growing pains----
followed by an era of unprecedented wealth, happiness,
and reward for all.
We (as a planet)......bought that line of BS.
What we got the new feudalism. This isn't a personal whine,
my family and I are doing VERY well, thank you-----but few
can seriously deny the middle class is in freefall.
There is no more "government". If there was, Opana would not
have been rubber stamped through to approval like it just was.
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Yesterday at work my coworker mentioned her son's birthday was coming up. He died of heroin OD. Then another co-worker mentioned she had funeral to attend later in the week - a young woman who OD with a note - so some sort of addictive suicide.
Another coworker told me over Christmas she has been to 4 young male funerals in her small town in the last 18 mo. Only one family was open about it being an OD. Her son grew up with these young men, so she just shrugs and says, 'You can't force the truth over a casket.'
Addiction is being discussed a little bit more than it used to be.
Another coworker told me over Christmas she has been to 4 young male funerals in her small town in the last 18 mo. Only one family was open about it being an OD. Her son grew up with these young men, so she just shrugs and says, 'You can't force the truth over a casket.'
Addiction is being discussed a little bit more than it used to be.
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
What is happening on the Cape in MA has been happening in other areas. The heroin shifted out from the Camden’s and Dorchester’s of the areas into the affluent, cushier, sleepy type towns. And this isn’t new, kids were dying from years before and a lot of them. But the kids that died close to the known drug areas weren’t always talked about.
What should the government do?
Look what happen when they responded to pressure from parents about oxy. Now we have a huge increase in heroin use. Not sure why anyone felt the need to push people to heroin. The government responded to public pressure but in this instance the public pressure was driven by fear and a need to save and our children are still dying at an alarming rate. More and faster than before. Nothing in the past few years, no education, no monitoring, no oxy formula change, no closing down pill mills has even made a dent in the amount of users. Addiction adapts well and absolutely thrives in all the help and saving.
Heroin has been taking every opportunity it’s been given since the early/mid 80’s to come back and be supreme. To get to today you have to go back . It’s more than just the pain killers a lot more.
It sadly will get worse before it gets better.
What should the government do?
Look what happen when they responded to pressure from parents about oxy. Now we have a huge increase in heroin use. Not sure why anyone felt the need to push people to heroin. The government responded to public pressure but in this instance the public pressure was driven by fear and a need to save and our children are still dying at an alarming rate. More and faster than before. Nothing in the past few years, no education, no monitoring, no oxy formula change, no closing down pill mills has even made a dent in the amount of users. Addiction adapts well and absolutely thrives in all the help and saving.
Heroin has been taking every opportunity it’s been given since the early/mid 80’s to come back and be supreme. To get to today you have to go back . It’s more than just the pain killers a lot more.
It sadly will get worse before it gets better.
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 393
Mama,
"The word on the street about a few overdosing users simply means to an addict "oooh that's some good ****" where can I get that stuff. "
I volunteer with an organization which provides some services to the homeless here in town. Some of them have substance abuse problems - alcohol, drugs or both; others with mental problems; others with just a run of bad luck.
A fellow named Bill is the homeless guru for our town (no it is not Bill W.!)
He told me the same story a few years back when fentanyl laced heroin hit our town - "....that must be some really good ****!"
He told me the addicts were telling each other, "Go out, get done, stay alive." Immortal they were.........
One day at a time,
Jim
"The word on the street about a few overdosing users simply means to an addict "oooh that's some good ****" where can I get that stuff. "
I volunteer with an organization which provides some services to the homeless here in town. Some of them have substance abuse problems - alcohol, drugs or both; others with mental problems; others with just a run of bad luck.
A fellow named Bill is the homeless guru for our town (no it is not Bill W.!)
He told me the same story a few years back when fentanyl laced heroin hit our town - "....that must be some really good ****!"
He told me the addicts were telling each other, "Go out, get done, stay alive." Immortal they were.........
One day at a time,
Jim
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
The government isn't doing enough. Why?
The US government has been engaged in a War on Drugs for how many decades at the cost of how many trillions of dollars? It hasn't been effective at all in achieving its purported goal, which is to combat drug addiction. The only thing it's done is help make sure that our country has the highest incarceration rate of any industrialized country, even greater than China's.
At the end of the day, we can't save people from themselves. Look at, for example, the recent passing of Scott Weiland, formerly of Stone Temple Pilots. Here's someone who tried cocaine when he was in high school, and then tried heroin in 1993. How many times was he arrested for possession? How many times was he imprisoned? How many times did he go to rehab? And yet last month, he was found dead at age 48 on his tour bus from an accidental overdose of cocaine, alcohol, and MDA. He had more than enough opportunities for 30 years to embrace recovery. He chose not to.
The sad truth is some people simply don't want to give it up. Weiland drank until his death. Phillip Seymour Hoffman gave himself permission to drink after nearly two decades of sobriety, and that led to his death from a heroin overdose.
Every single of one us -- addicts and non-addicts -- are capable of not being honest with ourselves. The difference between addicts and non-addicts, however, is the price the addict pays for not being honest with themselves can kill. We can't prevent people from falling victim to their own cognitive distortions, or from making bad decisions. And we can't prevent people from experiencing the consequences of those decisions.
My $0.02.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
That is so true, Zoso. Was there ever a time the 'government" could
save individuals from killing themselves.
My deepest sense is that entire classes of human beings are killing
themselves for a reason. The demographic trend of early deaths in
certain subgroups (at least here in the USA) seems to be closely tied to
opiate intake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...2a7_story.html
Perhaps even SR itself is but a symptom of a far greater
"event sociological" that future generations will consider
profound-----yet is nearly invisible to us even as we are right
in the middle of it.
Any event that moves population stats in a measurable way is
PROFOUNDLY powerful.
save individuals from killing themselves.
My deepest sense is that entire classes of human beings are killing
themselves for a reason. The demographic trend of early deaths in
certain subgroups (at least here in the USA) seems to be closely tied to
opiate intake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...2a7_story.html
Perhaps even SR itself is but a symptom of a far greater
"event sociological" that future generations will consider
profound-----yet is nearly invisible to us even as we are right
in the middle of it.
Any event that moves population stats in a measurable way is
PROFOUNDLY powerful.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
Originally Posted by Vale 
That is so true, Zoso. Was there ever a time the 'government" could
save individuals from killing themselves.
My deepest sense is that entire classes of human beings are killing
themselves for a reason. The demographic trend of early deaths in
certain subgroups (at least here in the USA) seems to be closely tied to
opiate intake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...2a7_story.html
Perhaps even SR itself is but a symptom of a far greater
"event sociological" that future generations will consider
profound-----yet is nearly invisible to us even as we are right
in the middle of it.
Any event that moves population stats in a measurable way is
PROFOUNDLY powerful.
save individuals from killing themselves.
My deepest sense is that entire classes of human beings are killing
themselves for a reason. The demographic trend of early deaths in
certain subgroups (at least here in the USA) seems to be closely tied to
opiate intake.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...2a7_story.html
Perhaps even SR itself is but a symptom of a far greater
"event sociological" that future generations will consider
profound-----yet is nearly invisible to us even as we are right
in the middle of it.
Any event that moves population stats in a measurable way is
PROFOUNDLY powerful.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Delray Beach, Florida
Posts: 215
I understand addicts can't be saved unless they decide to save themselves. My AH says those who get thrown in jail for possession/drug charges basically go to jail and don't get the help they need. He says it's a revolving door. Go back out, use, go back to jail...He feels there needs to be more programs and affordable treatment options and stop throwing these peeps in jail and rehabilitate them instead....BUT if they don't want to rehabilitate then what a waste!
I feel addicts who make the choice to go to the street and buy drugs should be thrown in jail. Excuse me but last time I checked it's a crime to purchase street drugs. Its wrong...you made your choice...end of story. So they deserve treatment rather than penalty? I know it's a disease but don't you always have a choice not to take that first line, that first needle, that first pill? You have a responsibility to yourself to get help in times of weakness. AH says....You will never know or understand what it's like being an addict....it's not that simple. I'm not worldly or wise. I don't have experience with addiction nor am I up to the minute with the war on drugs. So maybe he's right, it isn't that simple.
I feel addicts who make the choice to go to the street and buy drugs should be thrown in jail. Excuse me but last time I checked it's a crime to purchase street drugs. Its wrong...you made your choice...end of story. So they deserve treatment rather than penalty? I know it's a disease but don't you always have a choice not to take that first line, that first needle, that first pill? You have a responsibility to yourself to get help in times of weakness. AH says....You will never know or understand what it's like being an addict....it's not that simple. I'm not worldly or wise. I don't have experience with addiction nor am I up to the minute with the war on drugs. So maybe he's right, it isn't that simple.
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Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
I think this is a nice way to wind down the thread.
Well, perhaps it's not that simple for the addict. But for us, those who love them, it is that simple. Whatever the addict chooses to do, we have choices, too. I think Ann's story, for example, is poignant because she went above and beyond in her efforts to help her son. And how did that go for her? He never stopped using, and she nearly lost everything. Who knows where he his now, but thank God Ann's here to share her experiences and comfort those who are where she was. She survived to tell the tale, even though she got dinged up in the process.
It is not necessary for us to fully understand what it's like for the addict in order for us to make the best decisions we can for ourselves. Can that understanding be a useful data point? Sure. But that data point is just that, a data point. In other words, we don't need to understand why the addict is behaving the way they are to recognize that they are, indeed, behaving badly.
And with that, I'm tapping out.
So maybe he's right, it isn't that simple.
It is not necessary for us to fully understand what it's like for the addict in order for us to make the best decisions we can for ourselves. Can that understanding be a useful data point? Sure. But that data point is just that, a data point. In other words, we don't need to understand why the addict is behaving the way they are to recognize that they are, indeed, behaving badly.
And with that, I'm tapping out.
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I wouldn't say the Government does nothing......The rise in heroin use is directly correlated with "The Government" responding to the pill epidemic. So they shut down the pill mills, and have gone into all pain management clinics, and put the doctors under microscopes with very strict adherence to scripting out opiates.....some have decided they will not prescribe them anymore. Not worth losing a license over. In response we now have a higher rate of heroin usage than ever before. Its much cheaper as well......
The problem as I see it is not the Government doesn't try, but where they point the guns. As long as there are customers there will always be manufacturers. If there were no customers, there would be no problem. The failure is in not addressing the addiction/person; rather, choosing to snuff out the un-snuffable. Our government has tried for years, to no avail, to crack down on the drug cartels, manufacture, and sales. Its never been effective.
Still, it is up to the person to choose to get sober. Would more access to rehabs work? Stiffer penalties for drug usage/sale? I dunno. When someone decides to get sober, and really commits most do it through free programs anyway. I think more should be done to lift the shame of addiction I DO think that would help. I'd like to see insurance pick up 90 rather than 28 days of rehab.
To answer your original question there is no testing for addiction possibility.
The problem as I see it is not the Government doesn't try, but where they point the guns. As long as there are customers there will always be manufacturers. If there were no customers, there would be no problem. The failure is in not addressing the addiction/person; rather, choosing to snuff out the un-snuffable. Our government has tried for years, to no avail, to crack down on the drug cartels, manufacture, and sales. Its never been effective.
Still, it is up to the person to choose to get sober. Would more access to rehabs work? Stiffer penalties for drug usage/sale? I dunno. When someone decides to get sober, and really commits most do it through free programs anyway. I think more should be done to lift the shame of addiction I DO think that would help. I'd like to see insurance pick up 90 rather than 28 days of rehab.
To answer your original question there is no testing for addiction possibility.
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Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I watched this and found it very interesting. It really gives a detailed look into what goes on in the mind of an addicted person, namely a child. I have a child who is addicted and it helped me to see what goes on in her head and how this addiction has taken over her life. Very good watch, but upsetting at the same time. Thanks
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Originally Posted by elissa1962
Just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I watched this and found it very interesting. It really gives a detailed look into what goes on in the mind of an addicted person, namely a child. I have a child who is addicted and it helped me to see what goes on in her head and how this addiction has taken over her life. Very good watch, but upsetting at the same time. Thanks
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I dont blame the government. I feel addiction has been handled wrong for decades. Their involvement is going to improve treatments and change the misconceptions about addiction is how I feel. But it wont be quick because the current system needs a total overhaul. Its not simple.
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Originally Posted by Refiner
Oh good grief, really? The government is supposed to cure all? WHERE is the personal responsibility!?!
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Mama - have you been to this site? National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) its recommended reading at smart recovery, and it explains a lot including rhe whys, and how to treat, and how family can help. And they link to othee sites with similiar info. My husband can get help from the VA and Im grateful they follow the recommended guidelines for treatment. Ive been looking at whats available recently.
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Originally Posted by AnonWife
Mama - have you been to this site? National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) its recommended reading at smart recovery, and it explains a lot including rhe whys, and how to treat, and how family can help. And they link to othee sites with similiar info. My husband can get help from the VA and Im grateful they follow the recommended guidelines for treatment. Ive been looking at whats available recently.
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The only substantial advances in addiction medicine in the past couple of decades-Buprenorphine and Naltrexone both came out of the private sector. IMO, government research has succumbed to politics and justifying the $500 per second spent on The War on Drugs. I would love to see the wasted money funneled more to private research institutes, universities, and labs and get the government out of the healthcare business.
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Originally Posted by mamaof3boyz
Not all of us understand addiction so yes, I asked the question. Not once did I say the government is suppose to be a cure all. I wish you would not jump to conclusions and make sarcastic comments. People come here to learn, share and try to get through their personal struggles. We don't come to this forum so we can feel dumb for asking a question. So thank you Refiner for your amazing insight. Hope you feel better about yourself now.
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