The confusion of denial
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 158
The confusion of denial
Hello everyone
I think Iīm in need of some support here. An update:
Two weeks ago saturday my ABf had a terrible rant and practically chased me out of his house when we were supposed to be out celebrating my birthday. I didnīt hear from him since and assumed I wouldnīt, and was actually enjoying some peace and quiet.
But this saturday he called me and told me he had a Christmas present for me and that he had seen on Facebook I was going to a concert in a church on monday and would I be singing (Iīm in a choir) and would it be alright if he went too? It was so surreal!
So then I said he had been very hurtful the last time we saw each other and that I hadnīt expected him to call me again.
Somehow he believed I had gone back to his house that night in the middle of the night (I didnīt!!) and was about to lecture me on not disturbing him when he was sleeping. But when he realized I was quite firm, telling him about how I could not accept unacceptable behavior, he agreed and then just turned things around, saying there are different sides to everything, and that he saw it differently. That he had always felt we both understood that his declarations werent to be taken seriously, that he had always believed I understood this was just irony.
I said yeah, in the beginning we both laughed at ironic remarks but that had nothing to do with how things had evolved, that he was becoming more and more aggressive when he drank and that I really believed he had a drinking problem and that this is what was killing our relationship.
On some other occasions when I had told him he became aggressive when he was drinking he had tried to reach a compromise, saying we should meet when he wasnīt drinking then (although he would soon forget that). But now he just denied he drinks a lot. He said he worked very hard every day so he was entitled to have one drink on saturday night and nobody had ever seen him drunk, not his family nor colleagues and it was too bad I had been around exactly on the only occassion he has one drink - this is someone who drinks every night, both wine and vodka or rum.
He also said that he doesnīt have a problem because he has been drinking since he was 15 and his father was an alcoholic (he stopped drinking when he developed diabetes, though), so he knows how to handle alcohol - what the what now??
Then he went on about how it had been wonderful to be in a relationship with me and he would always remember it fondly. This left me very confused. I never told him I was breaking up, I was just expressing how I felt.
And then I was left wondering if it had been a good idea to break up with him - which I hadnīt - and wasnīt I exaggerating? We did love each other, after all.
Now that Iīm writing this all down I suppose there was some manipulation/gaslighting. I do think he was surprised to find me unwilling to engage in the habitual BS and drama but the turn the conversation took just left me completely confused. And his denial is so absolute that itīs hard for me to stick to what I know is true - that he is an alcoholic.
I would appreciate some comments, I canīt seem to focus on myself, have a constant headache and am feeling like a real hostage.
I think Iīm in need of some support here. An update:
Two weeks ago saturday my ABf had a terrible rant and practically chased me out of his house when we were supposed to be out celebrating my birthday. I didnīt hear from him since and assumed I wouldnīt, and was actually enjoying some peace and quiet.
But this saturday he called me and told me he had a Christmas present for me and that he had seen on Facebook I was going to a concert in a church on monday and would I be singing (Iīm in a choir) and would it be alright if he went too? It was so surreal!
So then I said he had been very hurtful the last time we saw each other and that I hadnīt expected him to call me again.
Somehow he believed I had gone back to his house that night in the middle of the night (I didnīt!!) and was about to lecture me on not disturbing him when he was sleeping. But when he realized I was quite firm, telling him about how I could not accept unacceptable behavior, he agreed and then just turned things around, saying there are different sides to everything, and that he saw it differently. That he had always felt we both understood that his declarations werent to be taken seriously, that he had always believed I understood this was just irony.
I said yeah, in the beginning we both laughed at ironic remarks but that had nothing to do with how things had evolved, that he was becoming more and more aggressive when he drank and that I really believed he had a drinking problem and that this is what was killing our relationship.
On some other occasions when I had told him he became aggressive when he was drinking he had tried to reach a compromise, saying we should meet when he wasnīt drinking then (although he would soon forget that). But now he just denied he drinks a lot. He said he worked very hard every day so he was entitled to have one drink on saturday night and nobody had ever seen him drunk, not his family nor colleagues and it was too bad I had been around exactly on the only occassion he has one drink - this is someone who drinks every night, both wine and vodka or rum.
He also said that he doesnīt have a problem because he has been drinking since he was 15 and his father was an alcoholic (he stopped drinking when he developed diabetes, though), so he knows how to handle alcohol - what the what now??
Then he went on about how it had been wonderful to be in a relationship with me and he would always remember it fondly. This left me very confused. I never told him I was breaking up, I was just expressing how I felt.
And then I was left wondering if it had been a good idea to break up with him - which I hadnīt - and wasnīt I exaggerating? We did love each other, after all.
Now that Iīm writing this all down I suppose there was some manipulation/gaslighting. I do think he was surprised to find me unwilling to engage in the habitual BS and drama but the turn the conversation took just left me completely confused. And his denial is so absolute that itīs hard for me to stick to what I know is true - that he is an alcoholic.
I would appreciate some comments, I canīt seem to focus on myself, have a constant headache and am feeling like a real hostage.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Well, I would block him on facebook and not answer his calls, for one thing. (Two things.)
If you're broken up, no need to be accepting gifts for Christmas, either.
The worst part of breaking up is the back and forth. If you're done, be done.
I don't get why he started calling you again after two weeks.
If you're broken up, no need to be accepting gifts for Christmas, either.
The worst part of breaking up is the back and forth. If you're done, be done.
I don't get why he started calling you again after two weeks.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
My ex said a lot of similar things. The purpose is to protect his drinking. Everything that comes out of his mouth can be translated to: I'm not ready to quit drinking. As a result he will go to great lengths to convince himself and others that he doesn't have a problem.
If you were to believe my ex, his problems are caused by everything in the world EXCEPT alcohol. As hard and hurtful as this is, it's really not personal. He wants to keep drinking. He's not going to see "your side" of this because it involves him admitting that alcohol is causing problems in his life.
I think that blocking him on social media and going no contact will greatly increase your peace of mind and reduce your heartaches and headaches.
Sorry you are experiencing this. You deserve much better in your life and relationships. I hope your concert goes well. I can't carry a tune in a paper bag, so I'm always slightly in awe of musical folks like you.
If you were to believe my ex, his problems are caused by everything in the world EXCEPT alcohol. As hard and hurtful as this is, it's really not personal. He wants to keep drinking. He's not going to see "your side" of this because it involves him admitting that alcohol is causing problems in his life.
I think that blocking him on social media and going no contact will greatly increase your peace of mind and reduce your heartaches and headaches.
Sorry you are experiencing this. You deserve much better in your life and relationships. I hope your concert goes well. I can't carry a tune in a paper bag, so I'm always slightly in awe of musical folks like you.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
You referred to him as your ABF not as your exabf.
You were sticking to your boundaries in the conversation of not accepting unacceptable behavior that stemmed from his excessive drinking.
BUT then he said: how wonderful it was too had been in a relationship with you and he will remember it fondly.
Then you questioned yourself about if it had been a good idea to break up with him which you state you didn’t do but he thinks its over and now you feel confused.
Sounds like you were still “hoping” he’d change and become the BF you dreamed about having not the actual one with the drinking problem that he won’t acknowledge he has.
Usually confusion happens when we are not accepting reality and trying to remain in that land of hope.
Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on his denial and focus on your denial which is now causing you to question whether or not his drinking is even an issue.
Let him go……………..accept that this relationship is over and begin the next chapter in your life.
You were sticking to your boundaries in the conversation of not accepting unacceptable behavior that stemmed from his excessive drinking.
BUT then he said: how wonderful it was too had been in a relationship with you and he will remember it fondly.
Then you questioned yourself about if it had been a good idea to break up with him which you state you didn’t do but he thinks its over and now you feel confused.
Sounds like you were still “hoping” he’d change and become the BF you dreamed about having not the actual one with the drinking problem that he won’t acknowledge he has.
Usually confusion happens when we are not accepting reality and trying to remain in that land of hope.
Maybe it’s time to stop focusing on his denial and focus on your denial which is now causing you to question whether or not his drinking is even an issue.
Let him go……………..accept that this relationship is over and begin the next chapter in your life.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 171
Not sure if he's doing it consciously or not, but he's letting you know that he will choose alcohol over you, every time.
That is the message you should pay attention to.
Are you okay with being second to alcohol in a relationship? Nobody here can answer that - it's up to you.
That is the message you should pay attention to.
Are you okay with being second to alcohol in a relationship? Nobody here can answer that - it's up to you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
Then he went on about how it had been wonderful to be in a relationship with me and he would always remember it fondly. This left me very confused. I never told him I was breaking up, I was just expressing how I felt.
And then I was left wondering if it had been a good idea to break up with him - which I hadnīt - and wasnīt I exaggerating? We did love each other, after all.
i'm sure you have loving feelings towards him, but i'd be less positive about his LOVE for you. in his limited daily incapacitation, he deosn't really have the clarity or ability to feel something as deep and abiding as love. and he seems rather ok with your relationship becoming more past than present.
the man told you LIES straight up to your face about his drinking. THAT is his true love, and he will do anything and everything to protect HER....he will forsake all others, he will gladly give his life one swig at a time, he will continue to push more and more real people away, so that it can just be the TWO of them.
this is really a great spot to get of the crazy train. no christmas gifts, no coming to church, no more rehashing the intrigues of his iron clad denial.
And then I was left wondering if it had been a good idea to break up with him - which I hadnīt - and wasnīt I exaggerating? We did love each other, after all.
i'm sure you have loving feelings towards him, but i'd be less positive about his LOVE for you. in his limited daily incapacitation, he deosn't really have the clarity or ability to feel something as deep and abiding as love. and he seems rather ok with your relationship becoming more past than present.
the man told you LIES straight up to your face about his drinking. THAT is his true love, and he will do anything and everything to protect HER....he will forsake all others, he will gladly give his life one swig at a time, he will continue to push more and more real people away, so that it can just be the TWO of them.
this is really a great spot to get of the crazy train. no christmas gifts, no coming to church, no more rehashing the intrigues of his iron clad denial.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
^^ anvil says things so incredibly well. I always read the posts and think, "yes, yeah-that is exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't write it that way". 
. Seriously, great info and very accurate....iron clad denial is spot on and so is the fact that alcohol is his first love-his mistress-he will do anything for her and will continue to betray you. Yep.
. Seriously, great info and very accurate....iron clad denial is spot on and so is the fact that alcohol is his first love-his mistress-he will do anything for her and will continue to betray you. Yep.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 715
Hi Blu
I read your first post after I read this one. My question to you is this:
Why are you allowing this guy to hold the cards in this "relationship"? Why are you waiting for HIM to tell you if it's over or not?
Seems as if this guy is NOT in denial about his alcoholism. It's clear he knows he has a problem but is not wanting / willing to do anything about it. He's your BF not your husband, count yourself lucky that it will be a lot easier than many of the ladies here have it just to tell him to get lost. I know it hurts, believe me I know but is this really the way you want to spend another minute of your life? LOVE does not act like him.
I read your first post after I read this one. My question to you is this:
Why are you allowing this guy to hold the cards in this "relationship"? Why are you waiting for HIM to tell you if it's over or not?
Seems as if this guy is NOT in denial about his alcoholism. It's clear he knows he has a problem but is not wanting / willing to do anything about it. He's your BF not your husband, count yourself lucky that it will be a lot easier than many of the ladies here have it just to tell him to get lost. I know it hurts, believe me I know but is this really the way you want to spend another minute of your life? LOVE does not act like him.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
It will take some time for your emotions to catch up with your actions. You took good actions and have acted in your own best welfare, in the long run.
You will go through a grieving process for a while, also......and, that part sucks.
for now....keep your good head in charge....your heart is too vulnerable to be trusted, just yet...lol....
Make a list of all of the terrible aspects of the relationship,,,,,carry it with you, and read it every time you feel weak......
This is short-term pain for the long term pain....
It won't always feel like this.....
dandylion
You will go through a grieving process for a while, also......and, that part sucks.
for now....keep your good head in charge....your heart is too vulnerable to be trusted, just yet...lol....
Make a list of all of the terrible aspects of the relationship,,,,,carry it with you, and read it every time you feel weak......
This is short-term pain for the long term pain....
It won't always feel like this.....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 430
Hi Bluelily,
Did you read the thread "Facing Facts," posted by NowInSituation yesterday? I'm in a somewhat similar situation to yours, and that posting has been really helpful in terms of getting clarity, which can be so hard when the A is a good liar who knows how to manipulate you and really really wants you to believe his lies.
Did you read the thread "Facing Facts," posted by NowInSituation yesterday? I'm in a somewhat similar situation to yours, and that posting has been really helpful in terms of getting clarity, which can be so hard when the A is a good liar who knows how to manipulate you and really really wants you to believe his lies.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Then he went on about how it had been wonderful to be in a relationship with me and he would always remember it fondly
Ex alcoholic would say stuff like this, I view it as their opportunity to bait you, to see if you will engage. Or worse, begin to get emotional and proclaim that you don't want the relationship to be over. ( you know, maybe we can work on this issue together, crapola)
Run for the hills, my friend you really don't need this unhealthy person in your life.
Suuround yourself with people who add value and joy to your life.
I can assure you, he will repeat this same tactic if you allow it.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by bluelily 
He also said that he doesnīt have a problem because he has been drinking since he was 15 and his father was an alcoholic (he stopped drinking when he developed diabetes, though), so he knows how to handle alcohol - what the what now??
"I say mean things when I get drunk and it's negatively affecting my relationships, but it's okay, I don't have a problem! Because even though I inherited my father's genes and alcoholism has an enormous genetic component, I've been drinking my whole life so I'm an expert at it!"
For what it's worth, bluelily, my ex wife used that same line on me saying that I shouldn't take what she says or does while drunk seriously "because she doesn't mean it." The problem with that is that we aren't robots who can just turn our emotions on and off, and hurtful words and actions still hurt even when they come from a drunk person.
Search through my forum history and take a look at my very first post on this forum to see how bad things can get when you force yourself to stay in a relationship like that. It can get BAD. He's putting the onus on you to accept his unacceptable behavior, rather than working on rectifying his unacceptable behavior. He's said flat out that he doesn't see an issue with what he's doing because you're supposed to let it slide. The relationship may be 'wonderful' for him, but if he can't pick up on the obvious clues that his actions are making things very un-wonderful for you, that shows an inability to empathize (aka narcissism) and it may be prudent to put your running shoes on and get away from this one.
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