Kboys

Hi, its kboys again... I'm really relying on you guys a lot lately... Thanks for being here.

I'm trying hard to fight my feelings of guilt for calling police... Trying to trust my head instead of my vulnerable heart, as dandy put it...
But struggling with all of it, and thinking of other ways I could have handled the situation... Like filed for the protective order sooner like was suggested to me by you all (though I would have had guilt over that too) or just leaving the house that night, ( not easy to sneakily flee when hes not looking with a 2 and 3 year old, but ive done it) and filing the order the next day like I was going to...

I did what I felt like I had to do in the moment. I did the right thing, I keep telling myself that, but I'm curious who else has called police, and what was the final straw before doing so?

Thomas45

A normal, sane man would have knocked on the front door, waited for you to answer, and said "Hi honey, I was wondering if I'd be able to come in." He waited until you walked out of the house, crept in through the unlocked door like a stalker/rapist, and heaped abuse on you. He is not a normal, sane man.

This is a form of delaying taking any kind of proactive action out of a desire for avoidance. This is your fear trying to control you. You have conditioned yourself to not stand up to him, and the more you avoid taking action, the longer you enable his abuse to continue. And you can't exactly leave young children in the care of someone who is that drunk.

I called the police on my ex wife when she was drunk and threw a chair through our bedroom window, and I would do it again in a heartbeat if we were still together and it happened again. Why did she do it? Because I had locked myself in the bedroom to separate us, because she wanted to have a drunken argument after she kicked my cat and spat on the neighbor's baby stroller at 3am. Abuse is abuse is abuse. The more you minimize it and refrain from taking action *now*, the longer it happens.

FeelingGreat

K theres a lot of evidence that abusers will keep abusing until there are real consequences to their actions. What if you had managed to 'slip away' or calm him down? He'd feel perfectly justified and entitled to scare you and the kids again.

redatlanta

When my husband relapsed the last night he drank he became manic and insane. We got into an argument and he stood over me with a wooden back scratcher lifted and told me if I uttered one more word he would "smack" me with it. My cell phone was sitting beside me and I was trying to dial 911 without him seeing me, failed, and was too afraid to move. He sat down shortly thereafter and fell asleep.

I did not call once he was asleep. The next day I ended the relationship, he quit drinking and went back to AA. We are still together, I have not experienced it since. At that time I was new to alcoholism and was about 2 month into his relapse, new to SR, and new to Al Anon.

The key here to remember is that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I understand why you feel guilty. Was there another way? Not if the goal was to diffuse the situation as quickly and painlessly as possible for both of you. You see had you tried to sneak out, had you tried to talk to him it could of escalated to people getting hurt. He could be looking at felonies, you could be in the hospital. You cannot depend on a drunk person to make rational decisions.

Is there any difference in an Officer arresting a person who is DD, not far from their home, maybe not that drunk? The DD sees it as not fair they are almost home. The officer will say "I am doing it to protect YOU and others". What if the officers lets the DD go, they drive off and then run over a pedestrian? Now the person could e facing vehicular manslaughter and a family has lost a member., or is dealing with serious injury. Its the right decision ALWAYS to get them off the road.

You did the right thing for BOTH of you. He isn't facing felony charges, you aren't hurt.

For me I have never seen that side of my husband again. You will hear me say every once in a while that if RAH ever relapses again I will end the relationship. That is why. I only needed to see that demon once, God stepped in. I closed my mouth, he fell asleep - had I managed to call the police I would not have felt bad one bit.

Praying that you will receive peace soon regarding your decision.

Refiner

Perhaps the question you should be asking is why do you feel guilty that you called the police on a monster that likes to terrorize a woman and his own children?

AnvilheadII

kboys, this was from your post back in APRIL 2015:

I know I don’t have to wait for him to drink again. But part of me really wishes he would just drink again, and get violent, and I could call the police and he would be arrested and I could get a protective order. The other part of me is terrified of that happening.

you cannot control the outcome and make it all okay when you are dealing with a sick, twisted, abusive person. HIS pattern of abuse is what led to this. this is the only way for it to STOP.

fluffyflea

You probably would have had to call the police even with your protective order.

You did the right thing.

SeriousKarma

I called my XAH's military chain of command to have him removed from our house. It wasn't the police, but I knew when I made the call that there would be potential consequences to his retirement.

He wasn't violent. He wasn't even conscious. He had stumbled in an passed out on the sofa at about 2:00 in the afternoon. This after a stretch of sobriety that had lasted a few months.

I was just over it. After years of this sobriety/binge, sobriety/binge pattern, with no honest attempt at recovery, I had finally reached a point where I knew what I wanted. Serenity. And serenity wasn't going to come while he was in the house.

They hoisted him up and drove him away. That was the last time we lived together, and the last time I saw him drunk. Let me say that again.... The last time I saw him drunk.

That was two years ago. We are divorced now, and getting along fine. If all goes according to plan I will never see him drunk again.

It's as though having him removed from the house was the physical manifestation of me saying that his drinking was no longer going to be my problem.

It was not easy, but I'm very happy I did it.

You did the right thing Kboys. You know you did.

jjj111

I had to call the police on the first guy I dated seriously. When I tried to break up with him, he got drunk and tried to kick down my door. It was terrifying, and I still remember how hard it was to pick up the phone and make that call.

But in the years since then, I realize that I did the right thing. These days, I think a good rule of thumb is: if someone becomes physically or verbally threatening, call the police. The first time. If you're scared, that's a good enough reason to call. NO second chances, letting it slide this once, etc. As other posters have mentioned, every time you find a reason to put it off, the message that the abuser gets is that they can get away with it.

LexieCat

I've never, personally, been in a situation where I had to call the police (and by that I mean I was never in a situation where I felt at risk--no history of physical violence, no situation where I felt I was in danger of it).

Here's a factoid that you and others might find interesting, though. When risk of lethality is being studied, researchers found that a prior arrest for DV somewhat reduced the risk of an eventually fatal attack. Maybe it's because the reality of criminal justice consequences has made an impression.

When you think about it, though, each time a batterer escapes serious consequences, they gain more of a sense of power.

Suppose you hadn't called the police--that you'd managed to escape (with terrified children in tow). Wouldn't that have simply upped the ante? Might he not conclude that next time he needs to make sure you have no avenue of escape?

What would prevent him from doing it again--over and over, confident that you wouldn't do anything to stop him?

Apart from the emotional danger to the kids, too, I cannot tell you how many cases I've had where the victim has been punched or strangled with her child in her arms. Or cases where the child tries to protect mom by getting between her and the attacker, only to be injured. It happens ALL THE TIME. Tell me, when he's drunk and furious, isn't that a possibility?

By your own account, he's committed worse acts against you without any law enforcement involvement. How has that worked out, in terms of his sense of what he can do to you with complete impunity?

ladyscribbler

I called the police a few times, and the neighbors called them another time when they saw him trying to shove me outside and lock me out of the house, but they only "took him away" once, and that was after he charged at one of the officers who responded. The other times they kept him away from me so I could get the kids out of the house.
The time he got arrested he had been drinking all day and the kids and I were in bed. He came upstairs and turned on all the lights and was slamming the dresser drawers open and shut throwing clothes all over the room. I woke up and asked him to keep it down. I was worried he'd wake up DS who was 2 at the time. He ripped the covers off me and dragged me out of the bed, screaming and cursing. I ran downstairs and he followed me. I grabbed the phone and dialed 911 and he ripped the phone out of my hand and smashed it, but the call was long enough for them to trace. He chased me around downstairs kicking and punching me until the police knocked at the door, then he immediately turned into Mr. Reasonable (funny how that works) and answered the door wearing only underwear.
I was in the kitchen standing at the sink. He tried to get rid of the cops, but they insisted on coming in to talk to me. The 911 dispatcher had mentioned hearing a woman screaming in the background before the call was cut off.
I told them what had happened, and they tried to get him in the other room, but he lunged at one of the cops and the cop twisted his arm behind his back and put handcuffs on him. They took him out on the porch wearing boxer shorts and handcuffs and gave me a card for the local DV shelter. I asked if they wanted me to get him a pair of pants and they said yes, so I brought him down a pair of pants so that he wouldn't get arrested in his underwear.
I found his clothes later when I went down to put in a load of laundry. He had crapped his pants, which is why he came upstairs in a rage and started ransacking the dresser.
I told that story for the first time a few weeks ago when we had our court date. He wouldn't even look at me while I was talking. Just sat there with his head down, staring at the table.
He got arrested two other times for public intox, but I didn't even know about either of those until he was ranting about paying the fines later.
I eventually quit calling for help because I got tired of the way it felt to have the cops looking at me, and the neighbors seeing the police cruisers in front of the house, running to his parents for a few days until they kicked us out because "he sounded sober" and was promising to do better. Once he even sent flowers. I called the DV number once and they asked if I had enough money for a hotel, so that was the end of that. I even quit calling for medical help when he hurt himself, because he used to get enraged after trips to the ER. They always did a blood alcohol test and recommended treatment. He hated that and always took it out on me afterward. Once he was so angry that one of the ER nurses called me and told me that I might want to get out of the house before they released him. That was when I called the DV hotline. So it was another middle-of-the-night trip to his parents' house.
I stayed for more two years after that night he got arrested. Life slowly deteriorated, came unraveled. I got more broken down, more stuck, more depressed. I seriously considered suicide just to get away from it. The only thing that stopped me was knowing that he and his parents would end up raising our son.

ShootingStar1

Kboys, you did the right thing. The only thing to keep you and your children safe.

Here's an interesting perspective on this:

Physicist Isaac Newton's Third Law of Physics is:

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The website, The Physics Classroom, goes on to explain what this means, saying

"When you sit in your chair, your body exerts a downward force on the chair and the chair exerts an upward force on your body. There are two forces resulting from this interaction - a force on the chair and a force on your body. These two forces are called ACTION and REACTION forces and are the subject of Newton's third law of motion.

The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is Opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces Always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs."

This isn't as esoteric and removed as it may seem. After all, the Laws of Physics are the very basis of how our world works.

To me, this is all about balance. If a bird flaps its wings downward in flight, the air beneath it "pushes" back, upward, and that is the source of the lift that lets the bird fly.

Our justice system is based on this equation. If a person uses their freedom of motion to break into a house and steal from someone, the justice system reacts by taking away their freedom of motion and jailing them. We consider that fair. We consider that necessary to keep our society safe.

What has happened to you is that, over the years of abuse you have suffered at the hands of your alcoholic husband, you have forgotten that you have the right to respond to his actions with an equal and commensurate reaction.

His domination, threats, and abuse have severely compromised you, and instead of responding directly to his abusive actions with an equal and opposite reaction, you thwart yourself and let his actions push you over.

I think that this may be at the heart of abuse: when one person terrifies and overwhelms another emotionally, verbally and/or physically so much that they penetrate the other person's boundaries and freeze their responses.

Your husband cannot be allowed to violate anyone's boundaries, physical safety, and emotional sanctity. That is what he is doing to you and your children.

Your husband's behavior is abnormal. It is beyond the bounds of what our society allows legally and morally. In terms of Newton's Third Law of Physics, his actions push past the boundaries of what our society and our laws have determined to be legal and safe behavior.

You, like many of us who have been abused, have been brainwashed and gaslighted and victims of Stockholm Syndrome. We have lost all comprehension of what is normal and healthy behavior because that is what our abusers intended for us. In order for our abusers to continue to act as they want, they have to co-opt our independence and make us complicit in accepting their outrage.

That is co-dependence.

The police are NOT co-dependent. They clearly understand the law and violations of the law. We are disarmed in taking normal and necessary reactions to abuse because our independence has been stunted by our abusers. We no longer recognize the boundaries of healthy behavior versus abuse. We often side with our captors, as did the victims of Stockholm Syndrome, against our own best interests.

The police, the law, the judgment system knows what we do not internalize anymore: what is right and what is wrong. Their actions are based on laws that are written and agreed to by our democratic government to protect our citizens. We, as the abused, need to defer in our emotional capitulation to our abuser, and let the law, the moral and legal standards of behavior take over.

We often absorb emotionally the consequences of our abusers' independent actions, as if we had done the abuse, and/or as if we were accountable for suffering the consequences that should belong solely to our abusers. That is what your guilt and your post above are about.

HE DID IT. ALL BY HIMSELF. OF HIS OWN WILL AND VOLITION.

You did not do this. You did not make him do this. You are not responsible for any consequences he must suffer from his chosen behavior.

Loving someone does not mean that they can delegate the accountability for their bad behavior to us. Loving someone does not mean that we give up our souls and suffer their consequences in their stead.

Recovery, to me, means that we finally comprehend and live with the law of the world: each person is free to choose their own actions, for better or worse, and each person must then suffer the consequences of their choices.

Kboys, it has taken me over 3 years since leaving my then alcoholic abusive addicted husband of 20 years to begin to understand this and articulate it. Coming to these realizations is the most powerful freeing journey I have ever taken, and I will continue to learn these lessons the rest of my life.

Your focus can freely and joyfully be only on yourself and your children. You have the right and the opportunity to create the life you want, the life that makes you all healthy, happy, and free WITHOUT restriction. You have the right to require - and only allow - people to be in your life who are healthy, positive and take your life and your children's lives in a constructive direction.

Take what you want, leave the rest; written with great empathy.

ShootingStar1

dandylion

kboys......picking up on shootingstar's post...perhaps you could do a google search for Stockholm Syndrome.....and "trauma bonding". This might give you more understanding of why you might feel guilty.
Feeling guilty is pretty standard for someone who has been subjected to long term abuse.....both emotional and physical.

I am imagining that you may be rehearsing, in your brain, how you are going to "explain" your actions to him, down the road.....and, what his reaction will be...and how you will have to justify your reasons. all in the hope or fantasy that he will see that you had a right to do what you did.....
Or, maybe you are visualizing having to justify to others...parents, his friends,
etc.....that you will lo ok like the "bad guy".........That he will look "right" and you will look "wrong"........am I a little bit warm?

dandylion

Liveitwell

Kboys!!!! I should have called the police on my husband at least ten to twenty times...but I was afraid that would escalate the situation so I did not-ESP with two young kids in the house. I did finally call the police and thank God I did-because my ex is an abusive monster as his actions continue to show. You did the right thing-part of abuse, and you were abused, is that the abuser will make you try to feel guilty for outing them. You did the right thing.

totallytrying

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Also, KBoys, read back to the thread you started on October 19th, where you wrote that your husband said to you:

"Do you know how hard it is for me to not splatter your face all over the walls?
******* piece of ****
I hope you burn in hell
I’ll make sure you burn in hell
I’m a sick ************
I ******* hate you
Your best isn’t good enough
******* ******
I want to slit my throat
All you have is your *****
I don’t give a **** about you or your *****
**** all you people
**** you and your parents and all your dreams
I hope this house burns to the ground
You don’t know what it means to be a family
You will never be a real woman
How did I end up with a disappointment like you?"

I post this not to throw it in your face, but to keep you from letting your guard down and excusing his actions. He's a very dangerous person capable of seriously injuring or killing you and your children, and this pattern has gone on for a long time. Please, please stay strong and try to put an end to it.

maia1234

Kboy,
Don't question what you did, as it is done with and you can't take it back. My AXH broke down my bedroom door that I had locked. He smashed it into pieces, before we were even married. (Hello). Not sure what I was thinking but tolerated this crxp for many many years. You did the best thing at the time that you could think of. The kids need to comprehend that this is unacceptable behavior and you get arrested for these incidents. You don't want them to learn this from their Dad or live in fear that he will repeat this.

I have one question. If one of us had come on sober recover and stated what happened to you, wouldn't you tell us to protect ourselves and our kids and to call the police????

LexieCat

Yes, re-read that post from October. Copy it, and replace the asterisks with the ACTUAL WORDS he used. That's what you want to tell the police/prosecutor about, and what you want to tell the court when you apply for the protective order.

Remember, this man picked up a knife and placed it in your hands, urging you to "slit his wrists." He is potentially suicidal AND homicidal. I also wouldn't be surprised if that particular gesture was a ploy on his part so he could claim YOU attacked HIM.

Also recall that you were desperately trying to call the police during that incident, but he followed you and took your phone away. In the present incident, you tried to call 911 but hung up BECAUSE HE WAS COMING, AND YOU WERE SCARED. You didn't hang up because it was no big deal. Thankfully, 911 calls are traceable and the police showed up in spite of his best efforts to prevent it.

Don't EVER hesitate to call the police if you're scared. Nobody should be scared in her/his own home.

LexieCat

Oh, maia's post just brought back a memory for me that I had pushed to the back of my mind. My second husband, before we were married, did something similar. We had both been drinking (I was a lightweight next to him) and I had locked my bedroom door to get away from him. I don't remember what we were arguing about, but I was very upset. He used a screwdriver to take off the doorknob and then he came in the bedroom and stood next to me while I was in bed, laughing maniacally. So even though it wasn't overtly "threatening"--it scared the crap out of me. Looking back, I would have been well-justified in calling the police. Maybe it wasn't a huge deal and maybe I was not at serious risk of being harmed, but I was made to feel unsafe in my home. And for all I knew, the situation could have devolved into violence.

NYCDoglvr

What helps me is to remember "feelings aren't facts". Just because you feel guilty doesn't mean you've done anything wrong.

Kboys

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate you sharing your stories and all the insight

Definitely warm, yes... And I also keep going over im my head all the things I should have included in my statement that night..
I realize I will have opportunity to do that later.
And the officer arrrsted him so obviously it was " bad enoufg". But I feel like I want to call officerand further explain... I won't, but yeah, you're right, I do feel like I need to make sure no one sees me as the "bad guy"

I read the incident report on Friday..which did make me feel a little better
It definitely made him look like an ass if nothing else...
He admitted to the officer that what set him off was that I didnt come say hello to him (drunk and passed out) and that I didn't make stew for the kids but fed them taquitos (when he was home all day.. He totally had time to make some stew which the kids would have maybe eaten a few carrot s out of anyway..maybe) And I was at work all day.

Also, I showed officer some of the damage he's done to the house like holes in the walls. He asked AH about it and he blamed the kids. He noted in the report that the holes were 4 ft high.
Out of kid's reach.
His BAC was .26