Update on my son

Old 11-23-2015, 07:15 AM
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Update on my son

I want to thank you all for your kind (and not so kind) words and stories, they've been extremely insightful. Last week I was on edge as to my AH's reaction to something my son said about him being a "hypocrite". For those of you that know the story and may have been wondering what ended up happening I just wanted to let you know that the answer is nothing. I worried and feared that my husband would blame me for what his son said but he didn't, in fact we never spoke about it but I did notice that he took the pictures off his instagram. I don't know why it took for this to happen but I was glad that he did it regardless.

I've been trying to give us both space, I'm trying to work on myself and detach from unhealthy behavior (both myself and AH) for myself and my children. This "distance" and "detachment" doesn't seem to be going well with AH and we ended up in an argument yesterday. He called me on Saturday to ask why I didn't call him all day, I let him know he was doing his video shoot and there was no need to call since there was nothing pressing with the children so I avoided contact. He said he didn't think that was the reason. Then yesterday he shows up later than he promised (to bathe kids & help with homework). He asked me about the distance and I told him that we need space to work on ourselves. He started with his "you always treat me like a yo-yo" spiel and how mad he is that I get to choose the status of our relationship...blah blah. I then very nicely told him that I felt like I've been begging for respect in this relationship and that I can no longer just be in a relationship with someone who asks and expects things of me that they do not give in return. We went back and forth for a very short time and then we calmed down. 30 mins later after he bathed our daughter he makes a comment about the way I'm positioned in the corner of the bed (he called it strategically place) and engaged in my phone. I knew what he was insinuating and I very softly said "if you think I'm speaking to a male I'm not". He always thinks there's a man I run to when I'm hurt, upset or when we're having issues. He says "it doesn't matter because you're single". He ended up leaving shortly thereafter very angry, of course.
My son arrive home with my father after AH left, my son was extremely tired and began acting out because he was eating a lollipop and when my dad gave one to my daughter he started having a whining fit. Long story but he ranted on for about 2 hours about the things she gets and comparing them to the things he gets or doesn't get. He did this all the way up until bedtime, I was really upset because I knew he was tired but I also know it was coming from somewhere.
After searching for a few counselors I came across a few that I'm going to call by the end of the day to make an appt. but I'm confused right now as to WHEN and WHAT I tell AH. Do I tell him the full story of why I'm looking into therapy? Do I tell him now or after I've made the appointment and invite him? Again, walking on eggshells because of his possible reaction. I think he may feel guilty or think I'm exaggerating and his son doesn't need therapy. He may think sending him to therapy will CAUSE him problems that aren't there now. He's always so paranoid and private, I don't know how to go about this, any advice....PLEASE!
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:23 AM
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He's in recovery (2 months sober) and I don't want to give him any additional guilt or stress but I don't think he should know what's going on with his son.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:45 AM
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Look, the most important thing is that you get help for your son. His family situation has changed and he is acting out and it is more than you can deal with right now, under current circumstances. Period. What your husband chooses to do and feel about that information is entirely his business and his choice.

In families with addiction, life swirls around the addicted parent. Children are not capable of understanding the ins and outs of why that happens, and blame themselves. Focusing on your son and getting him the help he needs to understand that none of the discomfort in the household has ever been his fault is the priority, not what your husband thinks about it. Allowing that to factor into how and when you get your son help just perpetuates the cycle.

That being said, he is your son's father and I don't see how you can withhold information from him about his well being. But you CAN detach from the outcome here, and allow your husband the dignity of working through his feelings about it on his own.
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Old 11-23-2015, 07:59 AM
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Is it possible to just accept that maybe your husband won't like it, but you're doing what's right for your son and that's what matters? What is it that you're afraid your husband will do when he finds out, besides fuss? Part of the beauty of being separated is that you don't have to worry as much about his fussing--you're free to do what feels right to you!

Is it possible that your husband has a point that you are engaged in a "come here, go away" pattern with him? You've mentioned dating other people recently but still seem to be keeping him pretty close. Maybe you should try out actually being separated? Like maybe a whole month or two with no sleepovers or physical intimacy? It seems like you want that on some level.
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:09 AM
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As a recovering alcoholic I am going to say stop coddling your husband. Probably the single biggest thing we have to work on in recovery is the fallout from our alcoholism.

Your son needs help. You are getting him help. That is all that matters. Better now than when he is a teenage and is acting out in all sorts of inappropriate and self destructive ways.
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:21 AM
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I think it'll do you good to stop thinking about it from RAH's POV & think about it from DS's perspective. Instead of worrying how RAH is going to take the news, worry what will happen with DS's entire future if he doesn't get the help he needs. He has ONE childhood. He didn't make a single decision that created the need for therapy, none of this is DS's doing.

I had to stop thinking of it in terms of swimming away from RAH while he (chose to) drown & think of it in terms of swimming toward my DD, standing on the shore. He was an adult living with his own decisions, she was a child with one chance for a decent childhood.

Remember that just being sober alone isn't enough to create change - the secret-keeping is just another way he's choosing to drown, do you see that?
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:43 AM
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I got really accustomed to walking on eggshells, trying to be my alcoholic ex's caretaker, thinking it was my job to manage his reactions to life's curveballs. When we lived together and he was drinking, this was mainly a safety issue. But it got so ingrained into my mentality that I continued the behavior even after our relationship ended.
It was the reason I avoided immediately filing for child support, avoided the legal custody issue for so long and neglected lots of other responsibilities. I was afraid of his reaction. I was still scared of making him mad, of provoking a negative reaction.
A lot of this was behavior that was ingrained in me from childhood. I was made to feel responsible for other people's emotions, especially the negative ones. I still struggle with it today. My first instinct is always to appease, smooth over, fix or otherwise try to manage other people's bad moods and negative emotional reactions. I have to force myself not to do it.
You're doing the right thing for your son. As others have mentioned, your husband is an adult and responsible for his own stuff, however much he may have tried to hand you the burden of his emotions in the past. I know that it feels "wrong" to take an action that might provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person, but that feeling isn't a fact. Your focus is where it needs to be right now. You are protecting your child. That is ALWAYS the right action. Your husband is an adult. If he's upset about this, then it's a good time for him to talk to his sponsor or a counselor and see how he might use this as an opportunity to strengthen his own recovery tools.
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:49 AM
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I think the current arrangements are confusing for all of you. Are you separated or not? Separated people don't check in with each other just to chat, generally speaking--not in the "hi, how's your day going" kind of way. But he's over there every evening and sleeps over there often. If he weren't there he wouldn't have any reason to comment on how you are sitting on the bed. No wonder you're all confused.

If I were you I'd seek out a therapist who will get input from both of you. You can tell your husband that you're concerned about changes in behavior, that you're not excluding him from anything. If he's mad, he's mad. Seems like he's upset a lot anyway, regardless of what you do. This is important.
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Old 11-23-2015, 08:58 AM
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I was coming back to say about the same thing as Lexi - alcoholism aside, just the separation alone is confusing & difficult to deal with for kids. And when the arrangements are so cloudy with no real boundaries I'm sure it just keeps compounding those feelings.
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Old 11-23-2015, 09:33 AM
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Have you decided, in your mind and heart, if you are separated or not?

That's a big challenge, and a hard one. You've taken some steps to be physically separated. You're living apart, although he does visit for the sake of your kids. If he's coming over to help with the kids, then that's what he needs to focus on when he's over.

When you're living apart, it's a lot easier to set up and keep boundaries. If your mind is in turmoil and you're not so sure you're there yet, it is going to be hard to do that. The biggest challenge will be disengaging. He starts getting into an argument ot starts trying to pick a fight, then shut it down. Let him know that you're not talking about that. He came over to spend time with the kids, and he can do that or leave.

That's one thing you can do - don't allow yourself to be guided into those arguments. It does sound like that's what you're doing and it takes a lot of work to get there. If you're still struggling in your mind and heart it's going to be a challenge for you, but it gets easier with time. Just decide your boundaries that you need, and don't let him cross them.

As far as your son, I wouldn't think you need to go into detail, again, about your concerns and why you're taking him to a counselor. You've already told him your concerns. Based on that, you've decided the route of the counselor. You can simply let him know of the appointment and that you're doing what is best for your son. He can come to the appointment, or he can choose not to. End of discussion.

Keep your boundaries strong, and do your best to stop concerning yourself with how he will react. You know he'll react at some point, and you can't control why or when or how. You can control how it affects you and you can distance yourself from that fallout. He's a grown man. He's gotten himself into the position he's in. He's going to have to just flail around unti he understands that - it's not your duty to guide him to that. So let him flail, and keep concentrating on you and your son.

Until you get your heart and mind on the same page, it's going to be difficult. That's what this place is for. That's what al anon is for. Transitions are always rough at first, but they'll get better by working on and working through them.

I found, in my situation, that sometimes direct communication (talking in person or on the phone) was almost worthless. I ended up setting up a different line of communication - text or email. I'm not sure what possibilities are there for you in your situation, but I know it helped me to not engage in the back-and-forth arguments. And of course my own situation was different - no kids, etc., but it was easier for me to communicate that way some times because I could get to the point of what I wanted to say, and there was no immediate feedback or opportunity for interruption or change of subject.
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Old 11-23-2015, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jjj111 View Post
Maybe you should try out actually being separated? Like maybe a whole month or two with no sleepovers or physical intimacy? It seems like you want that on some level.
We did have a "real separation" at one time until it turned back into us trying to work things out again. I realize now that we are both in no position to be in a healthy relationship with each other and it's time a for a "real separation" again. My focus is on me and my children.
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Old 11-23-2015, 10:17 AM
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I've made the intake appt (1 week from today) for my son, the psych suggested that AH be there and I told her that he will be invited but I cannot promise that he will be there. I still haven't spoken to him since yesterday when he left but I will just wait until he does call, the appt isn't until a week away so I have time to invite him-no rush. I will simply tell him I've made the appt and its suggested that he attend. I know questions will arise from this but I will give my best attempt to not get sucked into a debate or argument.

What Lexi said is good - to just say that I'm concerned about his changes in behavior.
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Old 11-23-2015, 11:07 AM
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Hey, good for you! You are taking care of your son, you are taking care of yourself, and you are ready to get a real boundary between you and your husband. What that will give you is time to get out of the mode of reacting to everything he says.

For me, it took me significant time alone to realize that I was mainly perceiving the world through the lense of my husband's eyes and perspective. I found that I would, when I saw something happen or contemplated taking an action, knee-jerk first to "what will he say or do if I do XY or Z"

Then, with some time on my own, I was able to step back from that response and say to myself "hey, the question is what do I think?" And finally, I was able to think on my own. This is tough stuff because we have let ourselves become brainwashed that our partner's feelings and thoughts are right and matter more than ours do. Eventually, we get to understanding and believing that we are important too, and that it is okay to make a decision that we feel is right, even if it doesn't please our spouse.

This isn't necessarily commenting on whether we do or don't want to stay with our spouses. The first part of this is to get enough emotional freedom to realize what we do feel and think.

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Old 11-23-2015, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ShootingStar1 View Post
For me, it took me significant time alone to realize that I was mainly perceiving the world through the lense of my husband's eyes and perspective. I found that I would, when I saw something happen or contemplated taking an action, knee-jerk first to "what will he say or do if I do XY or Z"

Then, with some time on my own, I was able to step back from that response and say to myself "hey, the question is what do I think?" And finally, I was able to think on my own. This is tough stuff because we have let ourselves become brainwashed that our partner's feelings and thoughts are right and matter more than ours do.
Dimndaruf, these parts of Shooting Star's post stuck out to me like--well, like a shooting star at midnight. I posted way back this past summer about beginning to see so many ways of thinking and handling things and even habits around the house were not mine; they were HIS and I'd been doing them so long I never noticed the difference. That was only the tip of the iceberg. As I begin to do my own problem solving and work out my own plans and routines, I see that I come at things from a completely different place than he did in a lot of ways. I have learned from him, no doubt, and there will always be a dollop of what I found useful from him mixed in w/my own thinking, but I am letting go of the rigidity and perfectionism he brought to life and man, I am breathing easier these days...

I don't feel I can speak to the rest of your situation. All I can do is feel for you and let you know that once you start being your own person again, you will be simply amazed at how contorted your thought process was, and truly, you never saw it. It's like the bars of the cage are so close, so tight, they're under your skin and you can't even see them any more. You don't know they are there until they start to be gone.
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Old 11-23-2015, 12:06 PM
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Dimndaruf....I am, also, in agreement with the commentaries that you have already received.

I will just add this: When you change a behavior that others have come to expect from you-----you will always get a reaction from them....
If they do not like the "new behavior".....they will usually intensify their pushing of your buttons....doing what always "worked" before.....except with more frequency or intensity. .....
There is not much you can do about that...except to maintain your own boundaries until they wear themselves out.....and just stop trying to get you to change back.....
They may express a lot of anger toward you....or become very critical of you....or any number of maneuvers....just l ike your h usband is doing.....

This will probably be the hard part for you....learning that it is his problem if he gets mad....Remembering that the world doesn't come to a stop just because he is unhappy. He is not the king of the forest.

Change can be very hard....at first. But, it seems that you are realizing that change has to take place.....

I am soooo glad that you are wise enough to get some support for y our son.
It is the right thing to do.....and, you will never regret it.

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