LiveInPeace

I am dumbfounded by why and how to make amends to myself, to God, and to people who abused me.

Please shed some light on this.

Please don't suggest I call my sponsor. She's going through a stressful time right now and I'd to give her some space.

LiveInPeace

Edit: Maybe not so much God, but definitely myself and abusers.

LiveInPeace

Edit: maybe not so much an abuser, but someone who was verbally abusive and a bully (and still is).

sugarbear1

We forgive ourselves by staying stopped.

We forgive others by knowing we can not control them and that they have their own journey in life. We forgive by forgiving and letting go of the hurt. pp 66-67 has a prayer for others.....

LiveInPeace

Thanks, sugarbear. I get a lot of your posts. I'm not sure I get this. Do you mean that I need to realize I hurt myself and others by my addiction? Because some days I'm stuck in self-loathing and I could sense that's how a relapse could happen. So I'm not sure I fully understand this, and I would like to.

I guess I should have re-written my question in that I am in fear of doing a direct amends that I had the willingness to do, until being in contact with this person again made me see her abusive ways all over again. She bragged about some of it on the phone.

I'm not sure I understand how to make a direct amends to an abusive person while protecting myself from their abusive behavior.

I'm assuming I make amends to God by treating myself and others with love, forgiveness, and kindness, as we are all God's children?

Tommyh

I can`t help but feel like amends to an
active abuser will be wasted effort on
everyone but I may be wrong.
At the least,it would be difficult

except when to do so would injure them
or others

you are included in "others"
if I am there to try to sweep off my side of
the street,it would be bad to get abused by
them to the point of spiritual or emotional injury to myself

just a few thoughts....

Gottalife

I have to say I disagree with Tommy above. I don't know anywhere in the AA program where it even remotely suggests we can count ourselves as "others" if we will be hurt by an amends. Quite the opposite. I have heard that that is an NA position.

My thoughts on this are firstly that each amends needs to be discussed with your sponsor and a plan made. Your sponsor should be the last person you see before you go and make amends, and the first person you see afterwards. Amends are fraught with risks and great care needs to be taken.

In the case you describe above, making amends to a very sick person, the part of the step that may be applicable might be " wherever possible".

Remembering that amends is the restorative justice part of the AA program, and our amends is about making the other person feel better, to heal old hurts etc, (it is not about making ourselves feel better) it may be that an effective amends is not possible at the moment with this person. Only you and your sponsor would be in a position to know.

sugarbear1

yes. don't drink, no matter what!

I kinda lost my self loathing while working those steps and by working with my sponsor. I worked those steps at 2 weeks, 4, 8, and 18 months of sobriety, each with it's own spiritual awakening....and more learning about self.

My sponsor stresses being useful to others regularly and consistently.....



We keep our side of the street "clean" by making amends and we treat those who are ill as ill people. What others think of me is none of my business and what they say or do is on them, not me. I don't take things personally as much anymore (I'm a work in progress).

I don't know what your situation is, but maybe work with your sponsor and your network for this situation.

Gottalife

Amends to self? The result of working the steps is about the best amends I could hope for

" He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self discipline."

Ken33xx

However, a sponsor might not be adequately qualified to give advise on certain sensitive issues. Ultimately, it is the sponsee who needs to make the final decision. In this instance I would recommend the OP get feedback from others before making any decision.

Earlier this year at a speaker meeting a fellow went on about contacting his brother/sister who had made it clear they wanted nothing to do with him. It was all rather sad. He tried getting in touch and it went bad. He was really down about it.

And I`m thinking who told you to contact them vie Facebook.

Or the guy who was engaged to get married but still have a roving eye for the ladies. He was going to do a fourth/fifth step on this dilemma and everyone in the room nods in agreement.

And I`m thinking ... you might want to consider postponing the wedding before you do anything else..

The rooms of AA are filled with well meaning members/sponsers but ultimately you`ve got to make your own decisions.

Ken33xx

Good advise as long as I don`t use it (helping others) to avoid addressing my own issues.

Ken33xx

Interesting take on the word "others" but if it works for the OP it`s all good.

LiveInPeace

Thank you, Tommyh. I was wondering what you thought about this. You verbalized my fear. That if I make an amends to someone that sick--an active abusive person--it would be a waste. That it's not going to have the effect an amends usually has. It won't set them free. It will give them fuel to their fire. I have two family members in mind--one I owe an amends to, and one I'm not sure needs one and I'm relying on my therapist for that one. I just fear if I visit the one family member in person, she's going to retreat to treating me like she did years ago, or get angry that I am no longer the family scapegoat and she can't treat me like that. I don't know if that makes sense.

I shared that exact same thought at a Step 9 meeting. But then my sponsor told me that one of the girls made amends to her ex-husband who yelled at her and was very angry. I get that. I was told by another sponsor, we take it, but only a few minutes. But this isn't like that. It's hard to explain. These family members are sort of addicted to power and control. I fear an amends, especially in person, would give them that which they crave, vs setting them free. Or maybe it would somewhat set them free.

This is what confuses me most. When is it "spiritual or emotional injury to myself", and when is it "my not being able to forgive a sick person"??? I'm underlining this because I think is truly the key question.

As always, I am thankful for your taking time to share your thoughts.

Fly N Buy

LiveInPeace - I found that when I was uncertain about some of the things you've posed, I simply paused and just let time go by. God will reveal the answers to us - I don't react to what flesh tells me to do once I've asked God for guidance. I wait for His answers, which may come today, tomorrow or 20 years from now - if ever.

As long as I am willing, that's the key I have found.

Glad you're here with us, you bring tremendous spirit to our corner of recovery - thank you

LiveInPeace

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Gottalife. My personal take is that "others" includes anyone, because it does not say "except self". That's interesting that NA does not include "others". Hmm. I guess since I follow AA's program, I'll follow that.

Wow. I never heard this before. I like it. I think my program is different. They sort of just say to make the amends, and then you're on your own (with God) to figure it out.

What kind of risks are amends fraught with?

What is the "great care" that needs to be taken?

I am grateful for my program, but I sure wish there was more guidance like this.

Hmm. This confuses me. I read "wherever possible" as, if you can buy a plane ticket or drive to see the person. It's interesting to see you read "wherever possible" as "unless person is very sick." (I sure wish there was a cliff notes to the big book! ;-)

Thank you. More food for thought. I do wish these people would feel better, because then maybe they'll heal their old hurts.

I had a parent who used to rage at me when I was child (and I am not using that term lightly or exaggerating) and then after she calmed down, or after I ran out of the house and came back, would coldly and harshly make me apologize to her for it. It was f*cked up. I just don't want an amends to be like that, and I fear it would be.

LiveInPeace

[QUOTE=sugarbear1;5659752]yes. don't drink, no matter what!

If I still have self-loathing, what part of my step work is amiss?

You had spiritual awakenings at each step? I'm not sure I'm learning enough about myself. How can I improve on this?

I do that as my "living amends". It feels good and I see the effect it has on others, both in and out of fellowship.



So then I just need to keep reminding myself that these people are ill, so as not to take it personally or let their behavior affect me? Perhaps I fear I'll keep giving them my power away and that's what I need to remind myself of; that it's my power, it's God given, so they can't take it away.

Thank you. I have a great, spiritually-well sponsor, but she's not equipped to understand psychological disorders. It's helped to network here, though, to hear other thoughts from people who may have had similar experiences.

LiveInPeace

That's a good point. It also reminded me about the promises.

LiveInPeace

This is a fantastic point. I should probably pray on it more because the more I think about it, the more confused I get.

That is very sad. I think it took a lot of courage on his part to do this. It's a shame the siblings were too sick to see his effort and forgive him. I hope it didn't effect his sobriety, because if he had the willingness to make amends, and if he went out to try to do it, then he did his part. He changed.

Oops that was a misunderstanding on my part. I asked my sponsor again about this and she said, "you don't make amends on facebook." It wasn't really an amends that needed to be made. It was one of those small things that was bothering me, but that my sponsor didn't think needed to be an official amends. Since I found the person via facebook, she thought it'd be ok to send her a message. I guess it was an apology vs an amends. My sponsor also thought I might be remembering little things I did, vs focusing on the true amends, as a distraction.

That sums it up well. I think I'm in fear of making the wrong decision. If I don't make amends, I won't be free. If I do make amends, it could harm me.

Thanks for your post.

LiveInPeace

Fantastic point.

LiveInPeace

What does OP mean?