LiveInPeace

What methods did you use to find people? And did it depend on the exact nature of the harm?

In other words, when did you decide to just let it go, vs doing foot work, and to what lengths, to find someone?

dox

Many years and many miles separate me from most people that I have harmed.

I joined a couple of finding websites like Friends Reunited for one year.
Didn't have too much success in reconnecting.
I have moved on.
A couple of important amends, that resulted from my distant past misdeeds, were made possible through my internet searches.
One important person was contacted serendipitously (or by chance).

I took the "wherever possible" clause in step 9 seriously.
But, I still have many amends to make, if and when we meet again.
I believe that it is important to always remain willing.
You never know who you might run into, unexpectedly.

If I were to give any advice, I would say:
Be as thorough as you can be, whist remaining mindful of the cautions about harming stated in step 9.

It's like rigorous honesty.
When working on YOUR recovery . . .

Why risk anything less than your best?

LiveInPeace

Thanks Dox.

What's bothering me is, two people I want to make amends to had come into my life but I wasn't working the steps at the time.

I was thinking about joining one of those "find people" type websites, but I was unsure.

Can you give me an example of how we might harm someone by trying to find them?

Are we supposed to just let God put the person in front of us, or do our due diligence to find them?

Thanks in advance. Step 9 has just been very confusing for me. I wonder if that means there is something amiss in my recovery from the first 8 steps?

dox

What does your sponsor say?

Not trying to be funny, but he or she would be better placed to answer your specific questions.

With regard to harming them or others:
It's making the amends, or attempting to, that I think the Big Book is referring to in the step; not necessarily trying to find them.
But, why try and find them, if not to follow through with making amends?

Each case is different. Rather than look at theoretical examples of amends, or my candidates for amends, look at your own actual, possible or potential, amends.
Would it harm them or others if you approached them?

At the end of the day, it is your recovery. How diligent you want to be, is up to you.

At this phase of your development, your conscience may be a good enough guide to rely upon.

Please talk it over with your sponsor, if you feel that you need further guidance.

Finding answers here, online, can be a comfort.
The danger is that we may settle for the answers that we want to hear.
Our sponsors know us and our stories, so they will usually give us the answers that we need to hear.

All the best.

Tommyh

I was told by my sponsor to start with those people closest to me,like family.Then move out to those I lived around like neighbors,and then work.
That would create a comfort zone.
I had my amends in 3 basic lists
(1)those around me where it was easy to see,(2)then those I would have to travel a distance to see,and (3)those I did not know who they was or where they was at including those who have passed away.

# 3 was the one that bugged me the most.They are some people I may never see again.It would take God`s help there.In the meantime,I did all I could do to make myself ready to make those amends.I wrote quite a few letters,and had no where to mail them,but I wrote than anyway and burned them.

I have come to the conclusion there are some people I cannot possibly make amends to.I have learned to live with those over time because I know I would go to any length to make then if I could.In these cases,I feel like I have done my best for now.


I have never did much online stuff but google searchs which turned up nothing.I did have some good results once using a newspaper ad and found someone and made amends.

LiveInPeace

It's hard to explain, especially over an internet forum where tone of voice is difficult to get. But the issue is that although she is an excellent, God-centered, spiritual person to have as a step sponsor, her guidance overall has been way too vague and difficult for me to grasp. This seems to happen with each new step. And then the utter frustration sets in and I know that can cause me to go sideways, so I'm trying to avoid that.

I need clear-cut, direct, instructions. Five minutes. That's it. My sponsor before her was a beautifully God-centered spiritual person, too, but was exactly like my current one because they were both step-sponsored by the same person.

They give extremely vague instructions. One time we wasted 3 hours because I could not understand her instructions. But the more I asked for clarity, the more she just thought of a different way to say the same thing, and I just wanted to tear my hair out. So I asked one of the men to instruct me. He told me in 5 minutes what to do, I got it, and I did it. But then I owed her an amend for asking him, after she spent all that time with me and felt manipulated. Again I'm not complaining or gossiping, I am just sharing my frustrating experience. I certainly didn't mean to take 3 hours on purpose. I certainly didn't want to spend an addition 4 hours at Starbucks tearing my hair out trying to understand her instructions. It's really hard to explain over the computer.

When I ask her for clarification, she doesn't give it. Something about that I shouldn't have to ask for all the details. I see my part in it, but she does not see hers.

I guess she wants me to figure it out. But that leads to an awful lot of frustration on my part because I want to do the steps right, but if I don't understand what I'm supposed to do, it's not easy. When I ask her these questions, she does not answer them. I am assuming in my AA program, we're supposed to just figure out what the big book wants us to do.

This was extremely helpful. I did not understand this. So it's about the *willingness* vs actually going to any lengths to find the person to make the actual amends, yes? I'm not sure I understand your last question.

This was not something my sponsor discussed. I will need to look at each case on my own and try to discuss them with her. For example, if I happen to find someone I hurt 25 years ago, would it hurt this person to have the reminder of me and what I did? That's not something my sponsor and I have discussed at all. Our recent conversations have only been 5 minutes or so.

Well I want to be diligent about my recovery. That's why this is very frustrating. I feel like I am missing something and when I ask for clarification from my sponsor, I'm not getting it.

That's a good point. My frustration with Step 9 has kept me from praying. When I need to pray most, that's when it falls off. So frustrating because then I get stuck in self-anger.

I've tried multiple times. Fortunately I found someone else who worked a very similar program that I have, who is willing and able to clarify things for me. My sponsor's been going through a lot of personal things lately so perhaps she needs a break from me, I don't know. It's been years since I've called her to talk about "my problems", but I guess timing is just bad. She's been going through a lot the last couple of years. Plus she doesn't have her own sponsor to talk to. She does Step 10 automatically in her head at this point. I've hinted to her about her lack of talking with her own sponsor, but it's so not my place. And I once heard a podcast speaker say "You only get as well as your sponsor" or something like that. Who am I to judge her? I can't.

I agree. I left this forum because things get misinterpreted online. I appreciate your pointing out the danger in settling for answers we want to hear, but I am way beyond that at this point in my recovery, thank God. I'm not looking for someone to say "you don't have to do that amends" or whatever. I'm looking for someone to clarify Step 9 for me.

I think I need to go and write Step 10 on my sponsor, as much as I hate and feel guilty about resenting her, I do.

Thank you. To you as well.

LiveInPeace

UPDATE: She finally told me that my amends are really not that big of a deal compared to most people. I guess when I drank and acted out with my other addictions, I acted inward instead of outward. Many of my amends will be living amends, too. I wonder if I should focus more on that.

I think she's probably waiting for me to focus more on my most important amends, to my spouse, which I'm willing to make but haven't done so. Perhaps I'm spending way too much time focusing on the dozens of little amends?? Am I trying to be perfect? Maybe I misunderstood what constitutes an amends and what really doesn't? Maybe I'm being too hard on myself?

Maybe she was frustrated hearing about these amends that weren't really amends. I don't know. Just a sense I got from her end. I wish she had told me this sooner, but I'm glad she sort of verbalized it now.

dox

Maybe that is what she is waiting for.
What are you waiting for ?

When I was entirely willing to make amends to everyone on my step 8 list, my spouse was the first one that I went to.
I am still making living amends ten years later.
Our marriage has never been better.

I'm not sure what you mean by "focus" or "focusing".

If you have done your step 8, you have your focus.
It's time for some painstaking action on your part.

I'll never forget something I heard at a Step 8 meeting.
I happened to be on holiday at the seaside and working on my step 8 at the time.
An old-timer said: "How do you know that you are willing?"
Then he knocked on a table and said: "When you hear the sound of your knocking on that persons door."

Please don't let step 9 be a stumbling block for you, LiveInPeace.

The step 8 and 9 promises, which start at the bottom of page 83 of the Big Book really do come true if you work for them.

A life beyond our wildest dreams?

You can believe it.

Live it.

LiveInPeace

This was extremely helpful. Thank you for sharing those directions with me. :-)

Wow that is so cool you found someone via a newspaper ad.

LiveInPeace

She told me to get the easy ones out of the way. But then when she had me do a family amends, she said to do family first since I'll feel freer. So I'm not waiting for anything other than clear instructions to not make me confused.

If she had told me to make amends to my spouse first, I gladly would have. But she's not giving me clear directions and when I asked her again she said "there's no formal order to do things." I am 100% willing to make amends to my spouse and know that will be the longest, most time consuming, but most powerful. But I also know I need to speak with my sponsor first before I do it, to make sure I write down everything on the index cards so I won't leave anything out. I've been in the meantime making living amends to him, as she first suggested to me before I really dug into Step 9.

That any time I speak with my sponsor, I am asking her for guidance on what words to say when I email someone, etc., but it's on the minor amends and not the major ones. I only did one major one so far but it was confusing because at first she had said to do that one in person, but then she changed it to say do it over the phone and then ask if you could visit. It went well but that's not the point. She told me today that a lot of the ones I have as amends aren't really amend-worthy. If she had said from the start, "I think you'll feel best if you make amends to your husband first", that would've changed everything I've been doing this past month. But she never once brought my husband up. Just that that one would take longer to go over and wouldn't be able to do on one index card, of which we had a laugh. But that was it.

It's hard to take action when you don't understand the directions. It's like someone is telling me to go to the store to buy them bread, but I don't know which store they want me to go to, or which type of bread they want me to get, and I have to figure it out but I can't.

I've heard that, too. I like that. I am willing. I am just confused as to how.

I'm trying not to.... that's why I'm here....

I believe it. I've seen it in others. I want it. I know it will happen. I am ready for them. I just don't fully understand how to get there.

I do believe it. I want very badly to live it.

So do you think I should put aside the silly little amends and go to my spouse? My sponsor seems to think the little amends are "distractions". She doesn't seem to believe me that I thought they were real amends. I'm a little OCD so perhaps it's me being too overly thorough again, like I was in my inventory. If someone says the words "Live, go make amends to your spouse" I will drop everything and do it.

Fly N Buy

My sponsor suggested to me I was trying to get an A in AA - he gently reminded me we don't get grades, just stay sober. Additionally I learned to take the action and not be concerned about the outcome. It is in the willingness we find humility and peace - the process of a spiritual awakening.

This helped focus me where I needed to be.........

Thanks for the post! Sounds like your on the right track - lots of good advice from our friends here~

LiveInPeace

Wow you hit it. That is so me. My therapist brought something like this up to me recently, actually. I've been in fear since day 1 of starting this program that I'm not going to do it right, I'm going to make a mistake and I'll be the one they talk about in "Rarely have we seen a person fail..." because I didn't understand the directions.

After my steps 6 and 7, I was in a tremendous amount of fear that I did it wrong, because it was so short and simple I didn't think I did it right. Childhood survival skills popping up here I guess...

It is extremely hard for me to take action with anything, really, until I am certain I understand all the details within that action, because of how strong my fear of making a mistake is. It's hard to explain.

Fortunately my willingness to those people who my sponsor and I agree that I owe amends to, has been very strong since the get-go. The one person I feared contacting, actually went beautifully well. Another person I was hoping would go well, didn't go well at all but the amends was made and the outcome is out of my hands.

Good point. I need to focus on "action" and not beat myself up if my action isn't perfect. There was one very general amends that I only made to have an excuse to call someone, that someone from another amends asked me to call.

The amends was well-received, but I screwed up what could've been a mended relationship because something I said came out the way it wasn't intended. I apologized for it later, but I didn't get a reply. So I know that had my action been perfect, I wouldn't have screwed this up. It's hard to let that go.

It helps to hear from others that I am actually on the right track! I needed to hear if I was or wasn't.

Yes thank you everyone for all the great advice!!! It's greatly appreciated.