3 Ted videos on alcoholism that will make you think
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Join Date: Aug 2014
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3 Ted videos on alcoholism that will make you think
I have just watched 3 Ted videos back to back and it took just over half an hour today I want you all to do the same if you can't no problem but please only post if you watch all 3 videos
See what you think then post what you think
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ng?language=en
http://youtu.be/pB3jQqPjxp8
https://youtu.be/LqtZjpI1oVQ
See what you think then post what you think
https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ng?language=en
http://youtu.be/pB3jQqPjxp8
https://youtu.be/LqtZjpI1oVQ
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
I've only made it halfway through the first one (I will watch the others this evening, I have several English lessons coming up) but I very much disagree. Personally I relate much more to the disease modal of addiction. I have plenty of bonds in my life. I have a wonderful, supportive family. I have friends. I have two gorgeous, healthy children worth living for. I have an amazing, soul-mate boyfriend. I have a supportive ex-partner and ex-in-laws. I have enough work to pay my bills. I have a nice home, a garden that keeps me busy and gives me pleasure. I exercise and enjoy it. I get out regularly. I do occasionally get lonely, but my abuse of alcohol started way before I ever found myself in a place where I was lonely.
Lack of bonds is not an issue for me yet I am still addicted to alcohol. And I am not alone. I know a lot of people with FULLY supportive families and partners who are struggling.
So for the first video, no, not a fan at all. I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle- between the disease modal and the psychological modal, but this is too extreme for me.
Lack of bonds is not an issue for me yet I am still addicted to alcohol. And I am not alone. I know a lot of people with FULLY supportive families and partners who are struggling.
So for the first video, no, not a fan at all. I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle- between the disease modal and the psychological modal, but this is too extreme for me.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,286
Thanks for the links, SW!
The first I found interesting - I do believe that for some alcoholics isolation could be causal but wonder more if isolation is a result of drinking. The comments about Portugal were interesting but contained some info that I think might be misleading. I believe he referred to a 1% addiction rate before legalization which he said was reduced by 50% after. 50% is a large and impressive number but consider that the real change was from 1% to 1/2%. That's a good example of how statistics can be used to say what one wants.
The second was ok but I didn't learn anything besides info on drinking in India. Her assertion that in places like the US and Great Britain rehab doesn't carry stigma is, in my opinion, naive.
The third was the best for me. It is a very compelling and informed account of one woman's journey. Interesting specific info about the increase in women drinking and some of the factors behind it. Also that 15% of breast cancer is associated with alcohol consumption. I'd like to read her book.
The first I found interesting - I do believe that for some alcoholics isolation could be causal but wonder more if isolation is a result of drinking. The comments about Portugal were interesting but contained some info that I think might be misleading. I believe he referred to a 1% addiction rate before legalization which he said was reduced by 50% after. 50% is a large and impressive number but consider that the real change was from 1% to 1/2%. That's a good example of how statistics can be used to say what one wants.
The second was ok but I didn't learn anything besides info on drinking in India. Her assertion that in places like the US and Great Britain rehab doesn't carry stigma is, in my opinion, naive.
The third was the best for me. It is a very compelling and informed account of one woman's journey. Interesting specific info about the increase in women drinking and some of the factors behind it. Also that 15% of breast cancer is associated with alcohol consumption. I'd like to read her book.
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,163
I watched them all and think they are all true to a degree. Like most things. However, the thing that resonated the most with me was the idea of inclusion rather than exclusion, which fits within any model. And I loved the piece in the Fix that you posted about the new book by Jack Grisham -- I have not read the book yet, but from the article, he nailed it, at least for me. I do not go to AA, but it seems he has been able to synthesise the core of what it should be about at its best, which fits within any model. Whatever the reason each of us decided to check out through our addiction, when do we wake up and change the positive association of alcohol with the real one. And once we really change that association, for those lucky ones who are able to, they are awake and won't go back. But there is obviously still a physical side, but isn't the point that once we really wake up we won't use, so the physical side doesn't impact us anymore. But the key is both really truly changing that connection, which I have never been able to fully do, and also realising that abstinence is not control, which is the physical part. Great food for thought Wolf, as always. Everyone should check out his link in the Media section to the article abut Grisham's book. Thanks.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Europe
Posts: 259
Thanks for the links, soberwolf!
The first guys thoughts about inclusion rather than exclusion resonated with me. But I don't buy his theory about being isolated is the only reason. Like he said, everyone in our modern society is more and more isolated - but not everyone drinks over it, so I do believe that the brains of addicts are wired in a certain unfortunate way. And I think the example with the rat park isn't completely convincing. I do believe feeling connected to others and having meaningful activities probably reduces the risk of becoming an addict, but that's not everything. As humans, we can be filled with existential angst and feelings of emptiness even with a good job, friends and families.
As for the second one, well, yes alcohol is a kind of disease. I saw one of the comments "if it is, then why isn't anyone born alcoholic?". To them I would reply that I probably was born an alcoholic, I just didn't discover it until I first tasted beer in my teens. Because already back then, I didn't drink in the same way as other people.
I liked the third one most, maybe partly because she's been through it, she knows exactly what it's like. And also how she brought up the increasing number of women who get addicted. But I don't think it's only because of target marketing, but by and large because of increasing equality between men and women. Women have both more freedom and more responsibilities than previous generations and as she stated, it's not looked down on women who drink like men. In my parents generation I've noticed it's almost always the wifes who keep an eye on their husbands drinking, I think they were brought up to believe that women should be careful with drinks. Not really so in my generation. I've met many men who'be been more like "wow, you can keep up with me". yeah..."wow".
The first guys thoughts about inclusion rather than exclusion resonated with me. But I don't buy his theory about being isolated is the only reason. Like he said, everyone in our modern society is more and more isolated - but not everyone drinks over it, so I do believe that the brains of addicts are wired in a certain unfortunate way. And I think the example with the rat park isn't completely convincing. I do believe feeling connected to others and having meaningful activities probably reduces the risk of becoming an addict, but that's not everything. As humans, we can be filled with existential angst and feelings of emptiness even with a good job, friends and families.
As for the second one, well, yes alcohol is a kind of disease. I saw one of the comments "if it is, then why isn't anyone born alcoholic?". To them I would reply that I probably was born an alcoholic, I just didn't discover it until I first tasted beer in my teens. Because already back then, I didn't drink in the same way as other people.
I liked the third one most, maybe partly because she's been through it, she knows exactly what it's like. And also how she brought up the increasing number of women who get addicted. But I don't think it's only because of target marketing, but by and large because of increasing equality between men and women. Women have both more freedom and more responsibilities than previous generations and as she stated, it's not looked down on women who drink like men. In my parents generation I've noticed it's almost always the wifes who keep an eye on their husbands drinking, I think they were brought up to believe that women should be careful with drinks. Not really so in my generation. I've met many men who'be been more like "wow, you can keep up with me". yeah..."wow".
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Originally Posted by Meraviglioso 
I've only made it halfway through the first one (I will watch the others this evening, I have several English lessons coming up) but I very much disagree. Personally I relate much more to the disease modal of addiction. I have plenty of bonds in my life. I have a wonderful, supportive family. I have friends. I have two gorgeous, healthy children worth living for. I have an amazing, soul-mate boyfriend. I have a supportive ex-partner and ex-in-laws. I have enough work to pay my bills. I have a nice home, a garden that keeps me busy and gives me pleasure. I exercise and enjoy it. I get out regularly. I do occasionally get lonely, but my abuse of alcohol started way before I ever found myself in a place where I was lonely.
Lack of bonds is not an issue for me yet I am still addicted to alcohol. And I am not alone. I know a lot of people with FULLY supportive families and partners who are struggling.
So for the first video, no, not a fan at all. I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle- between the disease modal and the psychological modal, but this is too extreme for me.
Lack of bonds is not an issue for me yet I am still addicted to alcohol. And I am not alone. I know a lot of people with FULLY supportive families and partners who are struggling.
So for the first video, no, not a fan at all. I am sure that the truth lies somewhere in the middle- between the disease modal and the psychological modal, but this is too extreme for me.
good luck with your lessons Bella Thank you for your thoughts
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Originally Posted by Meraviglioso
I just watched the second one and agree much more with her line of thinking. I look forward to watching the third. Thanks for sharing SW
stay awesome Mera XO
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Originally Posted by Saskia
Thanks for the links, SW!
The first I found interesting - I do believe that for some alcoholics isolation could be causal but wonder more if isolation is a result of drinking. The comments about Portugal were interesting but contained some info that I think might be misleading. I believe he referred to a 1% addiction rate before legalization which he said was reduced by 50% after. 50% is a large and impressive number but consider that the real change was from 1% to 1/2%. That's a good example of how statistics can be used to say what one wants.
The second was ok but I didn't learn anything besides info on drinking in India. Her assertion that in places like the US and Great Britain rehab doesn't carry stigma is, in my opinion, naive.
The third was the best for me. It is a very compelling and informed account of one woman's journey. Interesting specific info about the increase in women drinking and some of the factors behind it. Also that 15% of breast cancer is associated with alcohol consumption. I'd like to read her book.
The first I found interesting - I do believe that for some alcoholics isolation could be causal but wonder more if isolation is a result of drinking. The comments about Portugal were interesting but contained some info that I think might be misleading. I believe he referred to a 1% addiction rate before legalization which he said was reduced by 50% after. 50% is a large and impressive number but consider that the real change was from 1% to 1/2%. That's a good example of how statistics can be used to say what one wants.
The second was ok but I didn't learn anything besides info on drinking in India. Her assertion that in places like the US and Great Britain rehab doesn't carry stigma is, in my opinion, naive.
The third was the best for me. It is a very compelling and informed account of one woman's journey. Interesting specific info about the increase in women drinking and some of the factors behind it. Also that 15% of breast cancer is associated with alcohol consumption. I'd like to read her book.
Do your best
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Originally Posted by Dropsie
I watched them all and think they are all true to a degree. Like most things. However, the thing that resonated the most with me was the idea of inclusion rather than exclusion, which fits within any model. And I loved the piece in the Fix that you posted about the new book by Jack Grisham -- I have not read the book yet, but from the article, he nailed it, at least for me. I do not go to AA, but it seems he has been able to synthesise the core of what it should be about at its best, which fits within any model. Whatever the reason each of us decided to check out through our addiction, when do we wake up and change the positive association of alcohol with the real one. And once we really change that association, for those lucky ones who are able to, they are awake and won't go back. But there is obviously still a physical side, but isn't the point that once we really wake up we won't use, so the physical side doesn't impact us anymore. But the key is both really truly changing that connection, which I have never been able to fully do, and also realising that abstinence is not control, which is the physical part. Great food for thought Wolf, as always. Everyone should check out his link in the Media section to the article abut Grisham's book. Thanks.
Do your best
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 67,047
Originally Posted by Dallow
Thanks for the links, soberwolf!
The first guys thoughts about inclusion rather than exclusion resonated with me. But I don't buy his theory about being isolated is the only reason. Like he said, everyone in our modern society is more and more isolated - but not everyone drinks over it, so I do believe that the brains of addicts are wired in a certain unfortunate way. And I think the example with the rat park isn't completely convincing. I do believe feeling connected to others and having meaningful activities probably reduces the risk of becoming an addict, but that's not everything. As humans, we can be filled with existential angst and feelings of emptiness even with a good job, friends and families.
As for the second one, well, yes alcohol is a kind of disease. I saw one of the comments "if it is, then why isn't anyone born alcoholic?". To them I would reply that I probably was born an alcoholic, I just didn't discover it until I first tasted beer in my teens. Because already back then, I didn't drink in the same way as other people.
I liked the third one most, maybe partly because she's been through it, she knows exactly what it's like. And also how she brought up the increasing number of women who get addicted. But I don't think it's only because of target marketing, but by and large because of increasing equality between men and women. Women have both more freedom and more responsibilities than previous generations and as she stated, it's not looked down on women who drink like men. In my parents generation I've noticed it's almost always the wifes who keep an eye on their husbands drinking, I think they were brought up to believe that women should be careful with drinks. Not really so in my generation. I've met many men who'be been more like "wow, you can keep up with me". yeah..."wow".
The first guys thoughts about inclusion rather than exclusion resonated with me. But I don't buy his theory about being isolated is the only reason. Like he said, everyone in our modern society is more and more isolated - but not everyone drinks over it, so I do believe that the brains of addicts are wired in a certain unfortunate way. And I think the example with the rat park isn't completely convincing. I do believe feeling connected to others and having meaningful activities probably reduces the risk of becoming an addict, but that's not everything. As humans, we can be filled with existential angst and feelings of emptiness even with a good job, friends and families.
As for the second one, well, yes alcohol is a kind of disease. I saw one of the comments "if it is, then why isn't anyone born alcoholic?". To them I would reply that I probably was born an alcoholic, I just didn't discover it until I first tasted beer in my teens. Because already back then, I didn't drink in the same way as other people.
I liked the third one most, maybe partly because she's been through it, she knows exactly what it's like. And also how she brought up the increasing number of women who get addicted. But I don't think it's only because of target marketing, but by and large because of increasing equality between men and women. Women have both more freedom and more responsibilities than previous generations and as she stated, it's not looked down on women who drink like men. In my parents generation I've noticed it's almost always the wifes who keep an eye on their husbands drinking, I think they were brought up to believe that women should be careful with drinks. Not really so in my generation. I've met many men who'be been more like "wow, you can keep up with me". yeah..."wow".
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