Is maturity and empathy possible after recovery?
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Is maturity and empathy possible after recovery?
I would really like some feedback from anyone who's been in a relationship with someone during their alcoholism and after their recovery.
My husband did inpatient treatment for a month and came back so changed...I noticed patience, improved communication and a new zest for life. Fast forward a year later...he had 2 slips both 2 weeks apart and then he finally relapsed after another 2 weeks. He then began replacing alcohol with painkillers and ecstacy/molly. In between the slips he had learned that I cancelled a trip I had planned for his bday and grew extremely angry. He was vindictive and nasty to me off and on for months later. I told him I had to cancel the trip because I ran the risk of losing a lot of $ if he started to binge or got sick at the time of the trip and I was simply trying to protect my finances. I bought him a present which he didn't touch until literally 5 months later. He initially told me to take back whatever the gift was and buy myself something for MY bday which was 3 months away. He left a text message from his ex GF open on his phone and told me that he left it for me to find!! He wanted to intentionally hurt me. All this anger because I cancelled a trip due to HIS RELAPSE!!
Earlier that year I had surgery and he was still sober at this time. A few days after my surgery he seemed to get an attitude when I would tell him that I was hungry, he even left me home with our 2 kids 5 days after my surgery because he needed to go to the studio. I just had abdominal surgery, not some minor procedure. Are you freakin' kidding me! His thought was that if he put them to bed and went to the studio at night that we would be ok!! Who does that??
I don't doubt that he loves me but sometimes his anger fits and lack of empathy are too much to bare.
My question is did he need another year or 2 of sobriety before these things change? Does this behavior continue years after sobriety? Am I wasting my time trying to find out? Does anyone have any experience with recovered behavior, is it still the same?
My husband did inpatient treatment for a month and came back so changed...I noticed patience, improved communication and a new zest for life. Fast forward a year later...he had 2 slips both 2 weeks apart and then he finally relapsed after another 2 weeks. He then began replacing alcohol with painkillers and ecstacy/molly. In between the slips he had learned that I cancelled a trip I had planned for his bday and grew extremely angry. He was vindictive and nasty to me off and on for months later. I told him I had to cancel the trip because I ran the risk of losing a lot of $ if he started to binge or got sick at the time of the trip and I was simply trying to protect my finances. I bought him a present which he didn't touch until literally 5 months later. He initially told me to take back whatever the gift was and buy myself something for MY bday which was 3 months away. He left a text message from his ex GF open on his phone and told me that he left it for me to find!! He wanted to intentionally hurt me. All this anger because I cancelled a trip due to HIS RELAPSE!!
Earlier that year I had surgery and he was still sober at this time. A few days after my surgery he seemed to get an attitude when I would tell him that I was hungry, he even left me home with our 2 kids 5 days after my surgery because he needed to go to the studio. I just had abdominal surgery, not some minor procedure. Are you freakin' kidding me! His thought was that if he put them to bed and went to the studio at night that we would be ok!! Who does that??
I don't doubt that he loves me but sometimes his anger fits and lack of empathy are too much to bare.
My question is did he need another year or 2 of sobriety before these things change? Does this behavior continue years after sobriety? Am I wasting my time trying to find out? Does anyone have any experience with recovered behavior, is it still the same?
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There is a saying " what happens when a drunken horse thief sobers up? Answer is you have a sober horse thief."
That said yes when a person becomes sober they can change. It depends on the person. If they are sincere about getting down to the reasons why they drank alcoholically and really fixing those things miracles can happen. But, they actually have to work on it and want it. Whether they join a program like AA, celebrate recovery, rational recovery, lifering, even joining an online group like Sober Recovery. But they need to do something. Otherwise it is just a miserable dry drunk you are dealing with.
Is he still drinking and doing drugs? If not how long as he been clean?
That said yes when a person becomes sober they can change. It depends on the person. If they are sincere about getting down to the reasons why they drank alcoholically and really fixing those things miracles can happen. But, they actually have to work on it and want it. Whether they join a program like AA, celebrate recovery, rational recovery, lifering, even joining an online group like Sober Recovery. But they need to do something. Otherwise it is just a miserable dry drunk you are dealing with.
Is he still drinking and doing drugs? If not how long as he been clean?
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I don't doubt that he loves me
hmmmm, reading some of your other posts on this situation i'd have to say at the very least he doesn't ACT very loving TOWARDS you. just the opposite........he does not treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, he goes on months long pouts, he's in contact with an "ex" girlfriend, he is mean and spiteful and shows little real consideration for the safety of his wife and children.
and he's getting high like a teenager. all this really gets my spidey senses going..............
hmmmm, reading some of your other posts on this situation i'd have to say at the very least he doesn't ACT very loving TOWARDS you. just the opposite........he does not treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, he goes on months long pouts, he's in contact with an "ex" girlfriend, he is mean and spiteful and shows little real consideration for the safety of his wife and children.
and he's getting high like a teenager. all this really gets my spidey senses going..............
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Originally Posted by happybeingme 
There is a saying " what happens when a drunken horse thief sobers up? Answer is you have a sober horse thief."
That said yes when a person becomes sober they can change. It depends on the person. If they are sincere about getting down to the reasons why they drank alcoholically and really fixing those things miracles can happen. But, they actually have to work on it and want it. Whether they join a program like AA, celebrate recovery, rational recovery, lifering, even joining an online group like Sober Recovery. But they need to do something. Otherwise it is just a miserable dry drunk you are dealing with.
Is he still drinking and doing drugs? If not how long as he been clean?
That said yes when a person becomes sober they can change. It depends on the person. If they are sincere about getting down to the reasons why they drank alcoholically and really fixing those things miracles can happen. But, they actually have to work on it and want it. Whether they join a program like AA, celebrate recovery, rational recovery, lifering, even joining an online group like Sober Recovery. But they need to do something. Otherwise it is just a miserable dry drunk you are dealing with.
Is he still drinking and doing drugs? If not how long as he been clean?
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
I don't doubt that he loves me
hmmmm, reading some of your other posts on this situation i'd have to say at the very least he doesn't ACT very loving TOWARDS you. just the opposite........he does not treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, he goes on months long pouts, he's in contact with an "ex" girlfriend, he is mean and spiteful and shows little real consideration for the safety of his wife and children.
and he's getting high like a teenager. all this really gets my spidey senses going..............
hmmmm, reading some of your other posts on this situation i'd have to say at the very least he doesn't ACT very loving TOWARDS you. just the opposite........he does not treat you with the respect and dignity you deserve, he goes on months long pouts, he's in contact with an "ex" girlfriend, he is mean and spiteful and shows little real consideration for the safety of his wife and children.
and he's getting high like a teenager. all this really gets my spidey senses going..............
He can be loving; he's affectionate towards me and his children, he's not a cheapskate and Everyone that knows him says he has a big heart. After doing extensive reading I'm starting to wonder if we're all mistaking his "big heart" for his "big ego"! I just think he's so submerged in his own feelings and emotions that there isn't much room for anyone else's.
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Well, then it is possible he may get better. It is hard to know. Before I became an alcoholic I was a decent person. While an alcoholic I was a witch. Now in sobriety I am pretty awesome. Seriously. I work darn hard everyday to be a better person.
I hope he gets a sponsor and works the steps
I hope he gets a sponsor and works the steps
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Originally Posted by happybeingme
Well, then it is possible he may get better. It is hard to know. Before I became an alcoholic I was a decent person. While an alcoholic I was a witch. Now in sobriety I am pretty awesome. Seriously. I work darn hard everyday to be a better person.
I hope he gets a sponsor and works the steps
I hope he gets a sponsor and works the steps
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6 weeks can be a good start, yet it's a very small amount of time for the journey of recovery. That's what I found in my own recovery on this side of things... I've been in Alanon for quite some time and it's been layers for me in first opening up to be willing, then to become willing, then to start lifting layers of denial and stepping into new thoughts and behaviors.
When I'm able to work on myself, it's helped a lot on responding differently to others in my life, alcoholic husband, included -- during times of brief sobriety and in active addiction.
If he really has a commitment to working on his recovery, he'll deal with those things at sometime himself, or not. Some things I've seen aren't viewed the same way my husband saw them, therefore, they may never be addressed. I'm learning to live with that. It's hard for me to stop looking at things that happened in the past or to not future-trip. As I learn to live in the day at hand, things have gotten easier for me.
Have you been to Alanon or any other support groups for yourself? So glad you're here and posting! Smart move on reaching out. That's been a tough thing for me to learn how to do.
A sponsor doesn't make decisions for their sponsees, but can guide them in other ways to view things.
To help one to learn to make healthier decisions for themselves, and more often than not, to wait on making decisions until having more time in recovery. It's often about doing small, next right actions. Not in other people's viewpoint, but gaining from their experiences and learning how to apply it to my own. For me, that next right action is often doing dishes, making a phone call I've been putting off, eating dinner, getting to a meeting, taking care of vehicle maintenance, getting some sleep, etc.
When I'm able to work on myself, it's helped a lot on responding differently to others in my life, alcoholic husband, included -- during times of brief sobriety and in active addiction.
If he really has a commitment to working on his recovery, he'll deal with those things at sometime himself, or not. Some things I've seen aren't viewed the same way my husband saw them, therefore, they may never be addressed. I'm learning to live with that. It's hard for me to stop looking at things that happened in the past or to not future-trip. As I learn to live in the day at hand, things have gotten easier for me.
Have you been to Alanon or any other support groups for yourself? So glad you're here and posting! Smart move on reaching out. That's been a tough thing for me to learn how to do.
A sponsor doesn't make decisions for their sponsees, but can guide them in other ways to view things.
To help one to learn to make healthier decisions for themselves, and more often than not, to wait on making decisions until having more time in recovery. It's often about doing small, next right actions. Not in other people's viewpoint, but gaining from their experiences and learning how to apply it to my own. For me, that next right action is often doing dishes, making a phone call I've been putting off, eating dinner, getting to a meeting, taking care of vehicle maintenance, getting some sleep, etc.
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Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
He does have a sponsor but I feel a little uneasy that he has to speak to him about every decision he makes. Why if his sponsor want to lead him into breaking up his marriage or leads him in the wrong direction. He's putting his Life and future in someone else's hands and it bothers me.
Personally, I found my first husband's sponsor to be a godsend. My ex tells me he remembers my saying, "Go call Joe, and tell him not to bring you back till you're FIXED." LOL, I don't have a distinct recollection of saying that, but it wouldn't surprise me if I did.
Sponsors provide terrific guidance because the alcoholic's own best thinking is what gets them into trouble to begin with. Their view of reality is often pretty skewed and an objective third party can be very helpful. You're too close to the situation to make decisions for him, and it isn't really healthy for either of you, or the relationship.
Sponsors don't provide marriage counseling or tell people to leave their spouses. But they can be great for bouncing ideas off of, talking things through with, examining one's own motives.
Have you been to Al-Anon? It can be great for getting your focus OFF the alcoholic and on to something you CAN control--yourself and your own behavior and attitudes.
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only thing i will say is dont play down the "he slipped" thing.
he drank,used, relapsed...whatever ya want to call it.
probably pre meditated,too.
slips happen on ice.
ok, something else to say:
"He's putting his Life and future in someone else's hands and it bothers me."
why?
he drank,used, relapsed...whatever ya want to call it.
probably pre meditated,too.
slips happen on ice.
ok, something else to say:
"He's putting his Life and future in someone else's hands and it bothers me."
why?
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Location: America
Posts: 4,136
Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
I just think he's so submerged in his own feelings and emotions that there isn't much room for anyone else's.
You've nailed it and I sense you've got a good handle on it. It is so true that when are so very wrapped up in ourselves, it's hard to stop and consider how others are and how to even be sensitive and careing toward others. You've pointed out some of his redeeming qualities. There must have been something wonderful about him at one time or you wouldn't have married him and had kids with him. Yes, it likely takes time and if you try to point out to him where he is not treating you right it could end up in a fight, but you deserve to be treated right period. He may not for whatever reason have that CAPACITY right now and you could be waiting around for who knows how long for him to come around and treat you right.
In the meantime, do you best to treat yourself right! (easier said than done sometimes). Life happens and we sometimes forget to treat ourselves good.
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Originally Posted by tomsteve
only thing i will say is dont play down the "he slipped" thing.
he drank,used, relapsed...whatever ya want to call it.
probably pre meditated,too.
slips happen on ice.
ok, something else to say:
"He's putting his Life and future in someone else's hands and it bothers me."
why?
he drank,used, relapsed...whatever ya want to call it.
probably pre meditated,too.
slips happen on ice.
ok, something else to say:
"He's putting his Life and future in someone else's hands and it bothers me."
why?
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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First of all, you only have his word on what his sponsor is telling him. Those discussions are really between the two of them, so I would stay out of analyzing it.
Second, reasonable professionals (and sponsors) can disagree about things like whether it's a good idea for him to give up his music. Something like that can cut both ways, and it isn't necessarily "safer" for him to give it up. People also relapse because they see sobriety as only sucking the joy out of life. If his music is important to him, it might be important for him to learn to enjoy it sober.
What are you doing for YOURSELF? I'm hearing a lot of resentment, and that's just as bad for us as it can be for the alcoholic. Your husband isn't going to fix you, even if he gets solidly sober. That's an inside job for you.
Second, reasonable professionals (and sponsors) can disagree about things like whether it's a good idea for him to give up his music. Something like that can cut both ways, and it isn't necessarily "safer" for him to give it up. People also relapse because they see sobriety as only sucking the joy out of life. If his music is important to him, it might be important for him to learn to enjoy it sober.
What are you doing for YOURSELF? I'm hearing a lot of resentment, and that's just as bad for us as it can be for the alcoholic. Your husband isn't going to fix you, even if he gets solidly sober. That's an inside job for you.
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If you are going to continue this relationship, you need to consider stepping waaaaaaaay back out of his recovery. It is his to manage, and if he is not allowed to do that on his own - to succeed or fail - it will be pointless anyway. Take all this worry energy and invest it in taking care of your side of the street.
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Dimndaruf.....It might help you to keep in mind....that, at the bottom line, they want him to stay sober.
You are not their concern....or, at least , not a high priority to them.
If you asked them about it---they would probably say that he isn't worth much to anybody if he isn't sober first.
You don't have control over these people...no matter how angry you are....nor, him either.
The bottom line for you is the same as it is for everyone in your shoes......He is gonna do what he is gonna do---and, it is your responsibility to decide what you are going to do. To ask yourself what you are really worth (to yourself).
to my way of thinking about it--that is the bare bones.....
So sorry to be so blunt...but, I don't know of any other way to put it.....
He has others who care about him and are there to prop him up and to encourage him......
Who is there or you(besides us...lol).
dandylion
You are not their concern....or, at least , not a high priority to them.
If you asked them about it---they would probably say that he isn't worth much to anybody if he isn't sober first.
You don't have control over these people...no matter how angry you are....nor, him either.
The bottom line for you is the same as it is for everyone in your shoes......He is gonna do what he is gonna do---and, it is your responsibility to decide what you are going to do. To ask yourself what you are really worth (to yourself).
to my way of thinking about it--that is the bare bones.....
So sorry to be so blunt...but, I don't know of any other way to put it.....
He has others who care about him and are there to prop him up and to encourage him......
Who is there or you(besides us...lol).
dandylion
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
First of all, you only have his word on what his sponsor is telling him. Those discussions are really between the two of them, so I would stay out of analyzing it.
Second, reasonable professionals (and sponsors) can disagree about things like whether it's a good idea for him to give up his music. Something like that can cut both ways, and it isn't necessarily "safer" for him to give it up. People also relapse because they see sobriety as only sucking the joy out of life. If his music is important to him, it might be important for him to learn to enjoy it sober.
What are you doing for YOURSELF? I'm hearing a lot of resentment, and that's just as bad for us as it can be for the alcoholic. Your husband isn't going to fix you, even if he gets solidly sober. That's an inside job for you.
Second, reasonable professionals (and sponsors) can disagree about things like whether it's a good idea for him to give up his music. Something like that can cut both ways, and it isn't necessarily "safer" for him to give it up. People also relapse because they see sobriety as only sucking the joy out of life. If his music is important to him, it might be important for him to learn to enjoy it sober.
What are you doing for YOURSELF? I'm hearing a lot of resentment, and that's just as bad for us as it can be for the alcoholic. Your husband isn't going to fix you, even if he gets solidly sober. That's an inside job for you.
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Originally Posted by Dimndaruf
I would really like some feedback from anyone who's been in a relationship with someone during their alcoholism and after their recovery.
My husband did inpatient treatment for a month and came back so changed...I noticed patience, improved communication and a new zest for life. Fast forward a year later...he had 2 slips both 2 weeks apart and then he finally relapsed after another 2 weeks. He then began replacing alcohol with painkillers and ecstacy/molly. In between the slips he had learned that I cancelled a trip I had planned for his bday and grew extremely angry. He was vindictive and nasty to me off and on for months later. I told him I had to cancel the trip because I ran the risk of losing a lot of $ if he started to binge or got sick at the time of the trip and I was simply trying to protect my finances. I bought him a present which he didn't touch until literally 5 months later. He initially told me to take back whatever the gift was and buy myself something for MY bday which was 3 months away. He left a text message from his ex GF open on his phone and told me that he left it for me to find!! He wanted to intentionally hurt me. All this anger because I cancelled a trip due to HIS RELAPSE!!
Earlier that year I had surgery and he was still sober at this time. A few days after my surgery he seemed to get an attitude when I would tell him that I was hungry, he even left me home with our 2 kids 5 days after my surgery because he needed to go to the studio. I just had abdominal surgery, not some minor procedure. Are you freakin' kidding me! His thought was that if he put them to bed and went to the studio at night that we would be ok!! Who does that??
I don't doubt that he loves me but sometimes his anger fits and lack of empathy are too much to bare.
My question is did he need another year or 2 of sobriety before these things change? Does this behavior continue years after sobriety? Am I wasting my time trying to find out? Does anyone have any experience with recovered behavior, is it still the same?
My husband did inpatient treatment for a month and came back so changed...I noticed patience, improved communication and a new zest for life. Fast forward a year later...he had 2 slips both 2 weeks apart and then he finally relapsed after another 2 weeks. He then began replacing alcohol with painkillers and ecstacy/molly. In between the slips he had learned that I cancelled a trip I had planned for his bday and grew extremely angry. He was vindictive and nasty to me off and on for months later. I told him I had to cancel the trip because I ran the risk of losing a lot of $ if he started to binge or got sick at the time of the trip and I was simply trying to protect my finances. I bought him a present which he didn't touch until literally 5 months later. He initially told me to take back whatever the gift was and buy myself something for MY bday which was 3 months away. He left a text message from his ex GF open on his phone and told me that he left it for me to find!! He wanted to intentionally hurt me. All this anger because I cancelled a trip due to HIS RELAPSE!!
Earlier that year I had surgery and he was still sober at this time. A few days after my surgery he seemed to get an attitude when I would tell him that I was hungry, he even left me home with our 2 kids 5 days after my surgery because he needed to go to the studio. I just had abdominal surgery, not some minor procedure. Are you freakin' kidding me! His thought was that if he put them to bed and went to the studio at night that we would be ok!! Who does that??
I don't doubt that he loves me but sometimes his anger fits and lack of empathy are too much to bare.
My question is did he need another year or 2 of sobriety before these things change? Does this behavior continue years after sobriety? Am I wasting my time trying to find out? Does anyone have any experience with recovered behavior, is it still the same?
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
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OK, great. It's a process, and it takes time. One of the things that I've found works well for getting rid of resentments is to pray for the person I'm feeling resentful toward. The tricky part is that we don't pray for them to behave the way we wish they would, we pray for them to have peace and happiness--all the things we want for ourselves.
I'm not a religious person--I'm pretty much what you'd call an agnostic. I think there's probably something out there, but I don't think it's anything anyone here can ever hope to understand. So I'm not suggesting you have to believe that a Supreme Being will swoop in and grant wishes (no disrespect to those who believe in a personal God). The deal is, the act of praying in that way does something to/for ME. It opens my heart somehow, and I'm better able to see those I'm feeling resentful toward as ordinary human beings, struggling with life the same way I am. It makes me feel more compassionate, and lighter and free-er.
Just a thought, you might try it.
I'm not a religious person--I'm pretty much what you'd call an agnostic. I think there's probably something out there, but I don't think it's anything anyone here can ever hope to understand. So I'm not suggesting you have to believe that a Supreme Being will swoop in and grant wishes (no disrespect to those who believe in a personal God). The deal is, the act of praying in that way does something to/for ME. It opens my heart somehow, and I'm better able to see those I'm feeling resentful toward as ordinary human beings, struggling with life the same way I am. It makes me feel more compassionate, and lighter and free-er.
Just a thought, you might try it.
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Originally Posted by teatreeoil007
This.
You've nailed it and I sense you've got a good handle on it. It is so true that when are so very wrapped up in ourselves, it's hard to stop and consider how others are and how to even be sensitive and careing toward others. You've pointed out some of his redeeming qualities. There must have been something wonderful about him at one time or you wouldn't have married him and had kids with him. Yes, it likely takes time and if you try to point out to him where he is not treating you right it could end up in a fight, but you deserve to be treated right period. He may not for whatever reason have that CAPACITY right now and you could be waiting around for who knows how long for him to come around and treat you right.
In the meantime, do you best to treat yourself right! (easier said than done sometimes). Life happens and we sometimes forget to treat ourselves good.
You've nailed it and I sense you've got a good handle on it. It is so true that when are so very wrapped up in ourselves, it's hard to stop and consider how others are and how to even be sensitive and careing toward others. You've pointed out some of his redeeming qualities. There must have been something wonderful about him at one time or you wouldn't have married him and had kids with him. Yes, it likely takes time and if you try to point out to him where he is not treating you right it could end up in a fight, but you deserve to be treated right period. He may not for whatever reason have that CAPACITY right now and you could be waiting around for who knows how long for him to come around and treat you right.
In the meantime, do you best to treat yourself right! (easier said than done sometimes). Life happens and we sometimes forget to treat ourselves good.
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