Standing up for myself

Old 11-02-2015, 04:40 PM
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Standing up for myself

Be forewarned. I am using this thread to figure some stuff out.

I am many years past living with a problem drinker. Luckily my recovery journey continues way past that relationship.

I consider myself a nice person. Thoughtful, putting others needs in front of my own, considerate, polite etc. This is some old FOO stuff for me which I am in tune with an aware of.

I saw my therapist last week and realized in the session that I feel like I am in a battle right now, a constant battle, and as I talked my therapist gently pointed out to me that I am in a battle.....with myself.

I am being really challenged right now around this ingrained belief system and I am curious to get other's opinions and experiences around this.

Kind of from all sides (job, personal life, running into my ex etc) I am realizing that being nice, polite and "shutting" down when I am challenged is not working for me. I tend to put more emphasis on what someone else "tells" me about me and what I need to do, and not about my own worth. Some of the people I am struggling with are open to hearing some feedback regarding this, others are not. I finally have a lot of anger coming up in my life, and I am trying to be conscious that this is a part of my experience right now. My anger does not feel destructive right now, but it feels like it is moving me forward.

Being nice, polite and about everyone else is not working for me any longer. I am aware of this and can accept that I need to make some changes, but I am unclear what to do.

One of my bosses is one of the challenges. I work only part time for the department but I feel like she is constantly challenging my decisions, undermining my work, and frankly though she is trying to be helpful, making my job a lot more work and frustration. Today again she questioned my integrity on something, and I actually did not back down, did not defend myself but did say I was upset that she had questioned my integrity. She is not necessarily open to this feedback, but I can no longer back down.

So my questions for all you wise folks.
1. How do you decide which battles to choose?
2. What do you do? How do you prepare for this discussion?
3. How is your decision influenced by the fact that the person on the other end may not be able to hear you?

I think I have more of this that needs to come out. I have decided that in the big picture over the next year I would like to move and will change jobs.....but it will take me some time.

Thanks for your time, thoughts and experiences.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:12 PM
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I have ONE person in my job (hey, we have fewer than 10 people in the whole organization) who makes me want to SCREAM on a regular basis. She will torture me over minor details (re trainings and such) and what makes me even more crazy is she can't take YES for an answer, making giving in as torturous as fighting. She frequently won't drop an issue until I have actually agreed with her.

She doesn't do this every day, or even every week, but it's just often enough to make me think about quitting every few weeks. HOWEVER, so far the positives of my job outweigh this periodic torture.

She is a well-meaning person, I'm convinced. She isn't coming from a place of malice. But there is simply no dealing with her when she gets like this. I can't complain to my boss because they were essentially partners in creating this organization, and I'm far more expendable in my boss's view than she ever will be.

Here's how I deal with her (not necessarily recommended, but it's working well enough for me right now). If I can see I'm not getting anywhere with her, I ask myself whether it's worth it to argue. Many times the issues are so trivial that I cannot believe I am having an argument about it. But even when I'm positive I'm right, and should prevail (by all that is holy and just in this world), I am likely (a) to fail to "win" the argument and (b) to get myself worked up into a state of complete and utter, hair-pulling, screaming-into-a-pillow rage. Knowing that, should I drop the rope? Occasionally (but less often than it would seem), it is a position worth defending in spite of the cost to myself. Most of the time, though, I drop the rope (even as she keeps trying to shove it back into my hands).

Yes, it makes me unhappy. But I know of no way to solve the problem otherwise--I cannot control her behavior, the person who has the power to do something about it will not (I've tried, and so have others in our organization--they eventually quit), but as of right now, my choices are to live with it as serenely as I can, or to quit, myself. I'm not ready to quit. As with many people here, the pain of staying does not yet outweigh the pain of leaving. When/if it gets to that point, I'll go. I'm keeping my eyes out for places I might be able to land if it does get to that point. She's expecting her first baby in a few months, she will be out on maternity leave and even when she comes back, she will have someone more important to control and to treat like the infant that I am not.

So from a cost-benefit standpoint, I am better off, at the moment, dealing with the intermittent torture.

I'm not sure how helpful that was, but it made me feel better to vent, lol.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:39 PM
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When I'm not treading the boards on the weekends, I have a full time day job supporting seventeen people. These people are universally Type-A go-getters, most of them VERY good at what they do and VERY successful at it. In a nutshell, I build presentations that help them win new business. I have been building presentations for one company or another for almost twenty years. This dovetails nicely with my work in theatre, because winning new business relies on telling the story that gets my folks the assignment. I am really really good at my job.

Still, there are seventeen of them, and with that comes seventeen different levels of trust, seventeen spots on the spectrum of aesthetic skills and tastes, and seventeen different preferences for every possible facet of the story we're telling. It's not possible for me to remember that one of them prefers a certain element this way, and another one that way, so I keep copies of everything I produce handy and catalogued (I'm a little bit OCD in my organization on the job), easily accessible so I can at least give myself a shot at getting things right the first time.

Most of them respect my experience and skill and afford me an equal spot on the team. They listen to my ideas and feedback, and even if they don't take the them, they are comfortable debating the point without things getting personal. Regardless, at least once a week there is an event that creates (or has the potential to create) tension within my milieu. Usually it's because I'm asked to do something late in the game without regarding to how long it takes me to physically accomplish what is being asked. It's always, always, always about expectations.

1. How do you decide which battles to choose?

A lot of this is about time. The work has to be completed, and on time. Still, I won't let someone else's laziness or procrastination constitute an emergency on my end. If someone asks for something I can produce without incurring overtime, I just do it, even if I am angry that they waited so long. If someone asks me for something I can't accomplish in time (whether because they simply haven't given me enough time or because I have other deadlines for other people that need to be prioritized), I never just say No. I make suggestions for alternatives -- whether it's seeing if someone else can give them what they are looking for, or a simpler version of what they want. The most important thing is to remember that they aren't doing this TO me. There is nothing that happens in that workplace that I should be taking personally. If I am, I have to ask myself what's really going on with me that I am allowing my professional life to interfere with my emotional health. So I choose my battles based on a lot of parameters, 90% of which are logistical. The rest...well. When someone asks me, "Don't you think the title would look better centered here?" I don't have any problem shutting them down with "If I thought it would look better that way, I would have done it in the first place." Smiling, of course. But it's important that they know this is My Job, and that I Take It Seriously, and that I Am Thoughtful About It. They won't learn that if I just give in on every small detail, and I will make myself miserable for having lowered that expectation.

2. What do you do? How do you prepare for this discussion?

In the handful of times I have had to have a discussion (which feels a lot like a confrontation, which is so uncomfortable!!!), I arm myself with facts and experiential evidence. I keep it professional. I don't make excuses but I am not above reminding folks that I support a lot of people and that I have to make decisions every day about how to juggle my workload. I believe I am fair. I welcome constructive feedback that takes my perspective into account. But mostly, I gather support and positive feedback for how I take care of things. Doing that usually preempts the need to have these conversations. Mostly, I try to understand and remember that it is going to take time and a collection of positive experiences for some folks to trust me. I take every opportunity I can get to build that trust with every individual I work for.

3. How is your decision influenced by the fact that the person on the other end may not be able to hear you?

If someone isn't going to hear me, I don't waste my time trying to convince them. I say what I think is reasonable and non-inflammatory and then I try to let it go. I can only hope I get the opportunity to SHOW my real value to that person over time. I cannot take 100% of the responsibility for any relationship in my life, including (and in some ways especially) the ones I have with the people I work with. Basically, i try to detach from any behavior I consider unhealthy, but to reinforce positives and take opportunities to show rather than tell.

Ugh, that's probably way more than you wanted, and way less specific than you deserve. I hope there's anything in there that helps. xoxo.

Edited to add: I am not entirely sure anyone at my office would consider me particularly, "nice." Even though I am. I use humor and sarcasm to defuse situations a lot. I don't pretend that I'm not smart or that I don't know what I'm doing. When I need help I ask for it, but mostly I try to figure things out for myself.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:50 PM
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I don't know - each situation is so unique & not that there are different rules necessarily, but I tend to be a lot more "real" with this stuff in personal relationships.

I try to think it through - play the tape all the way to the end- and make sure I'm seeing the situation as objectively as possible. If I'm being short-sighted, I try to uncover it. I would likely talk the situation through with a trusted friend or colleague, just to hear myself run through the scenario. A lot of the time I find my own mistakes that way - hearing them out loud like that. Many times my friend will ask questions or point out something I hadn't thought of because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't see the other person's POV. That convo helps me to organize & condense my thoughts - especially in business, I like to be direct & exact in as few words as possible. Too many words creates miscommunication many times, IMHO, so I aim to cut the flowery adjectives & stick to the nouns & verbs. Talking it through first also helps me remove the emotions & remember the facts.

During the discussion, I pay attention to my tone & body language. Something like 70% of what we communicate happens non-verbally.... I aim for calm but not condescending, right without self-righteousness.

I also try to always bring a potential solution when I bring up a problem. Even if it's not ideal but all I've got, I throw it out there with that disclaimer. I like to show that I'm not about blame but about finding cohesiveness & solutions - sometimes it diffuses that defense/offense feel of these confrontations. Sometimes not. I can't ever control the other party or their reactions or emotions, so I go into everything like that with the only expectation being that I'll have tried my very best to communicate my issues. I have zero expectations of the other person.

I gotta say though, if you've been "nice, polite & about everyone else" you're going to probably experience some backlash when you "change all of a sudden". You'll see this wide-eyed, "what happened TO YOU?" look in other's eyes while they struggle to figure out how to dance to your new choreography.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:56 PM
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Thank you both so much ladies.

A follow up question.

I am hearing in you both that though you are "dropping" the rope at times and letting things go that you still experience frustration, annoyance etc?

That actually helps me immensely. I think because of my FOO I think that I am not supposed to have feelings. Rather what I am reading that you both alluded to is that you have emotions and are making decisions in spite of your emotions. I think I am suppose to feel happy go lucky when I make these decisions (or I take them on as my fault).

What brings me to this edge today is that I feel that my integrity is challenged (again). I am in a clinical position in healthcare. My boss is in marketing. I struggle when I feel I am being questioned about how I do my job.

I have not been saying anything (except to my therapist) about these challenges, but the last couple of weeks the simmering pot of yuck is not working for me any longer. Twice in the last week I have admitted to being upset regarding two different items, today I admitted I was upset at her.

I was worked up earlier that I had done it, but am calmer now (and am okay that I did it). I like her just fine, but the last six months have been really challenging for me. I typically take the "work" I need to do for recovery to work first....then it translates it into my personal life. I get that doing this right now is what I am learning, but it is so uncomfortable and I "hate" the feeling that I am a bad employee. I worked for the same company but a different boss and experienced some really big challenges before this (after nine years being very content with a boss). I am starting to feel like as I am getting healthier I appear like I am the crazy one.

Thanks again.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:06 PM
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This is -- of course, because it's coming from you -- extremely insightful.

Yes, I experience frustrations and annoyance but my confidence in my abilities is solid, as is my confidence in my ability to discern and accept good feedback. In my last review, one of my folks said, "SparkleKitty could do a better job at making everyone she supports feel like her number one priority." Pre recovery this comment would have devastated me. Now I am thrilled that I have somehow managed to convinced 16 out of the 17 people I support that they are number one for me.

I try to remember that hurtful criticism says more about the person giving it than about me.

And now I am remembering a lot of pre recovery devastation in the workplace. It was not a comfortable transition for me into confidence, and into seeing myself a valuable and equal member of the team. But you know what they say (and I am living proof), being uncomfortable never killed anyone.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:28 PM
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Yeah, it doesn't bother me too much that the aggravation still gets to me. One of the drawbacks to my current job is that I'm isolated much of the time. We keep in touch with each other during the day using email and IMs, plus the occasional phone call. In my previous job I had colleagues whose offices I could go into and vent away. Now, I have ONE person (at the moment) who I can call and rant and rave to, and he TOTALLY understands. I'm not as close to the other people--there was one other person, but she left to go out on her own. I still call her once in a while and still rant and rave about my experiences with this one individual.

Much of the time, I find a good vent gets me to the point where I'm not carrying around anger and resentment. I HATE feeling resentful. But I really do need that pressure relief now and then. It's a lifesaver for me.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:41 PM
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One of the partners in the CPA firm in which I've worked for almost 20 years is a brilliant man but he's capable of losing his temper, insulting and yelling at - well, anyone else in the office. The other partners, the professional staff, the administrative staff, even temps. People have quit because of the way he treated them.

Years ago he did not like a budget I prepared for something. He said something like, "What the f is this?"

I don't put up with that and it's not like I'm a prude about swearing but I will not let anyone swear AT me. I asked him - calmly - not to use that language with me. I could tell he didn't even really listen. So I said it again. Calmly. I told him I don't speak that way in the office and I did not want him to speak that way to me. Finally he heard me, apologized, and never did it again. After that incident I never had any problems with him. He respects me and I manage large groups of his accounts.

Pick your battles, IMO, and deal with what's important to you. I am not a confrontational person at all. I'm quiet and cooperative. It was not comfortable to confront this guy about his language but it had to be done or I would've had to leave an otherwise very good job.

Last edited by 53500; 11-02-2015 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Added
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Old 11-02-2015, 10:30 PM
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These days when I am feeling challenged in a situation,/ life I am able to acknowledge the situation, but then I seem to do my own little dance, usually responding with,
"can I get back with you in a few" or "let me check on that" or " I haven't given it much thought, but I will."and my favorite just "hmmm" it gives me time to gather/compose my thoughts and words. ( and a "few" doesn't always mean minutes.)

Otherwise I would be blurting out all kinds of unnecessary stuff, (because maybe like yourself, I maybe angry also ) And you are correct, anger does carry you along. I can function being angry, just don't force me into a conversation/ situation that I do not want to be in at the moment. There is no immediate, right now for me . I am not hopping on that crazy, and being led where I do not want to go.

I do not need to substitute someone else's judgement for my own, if it doesn't feel right , I simply am not going to that place of discontent, and if that's selfish, so be it.



This is an insightful post Life, you truly expressed what I often feel.
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Old 11-03-2015, 01:58 PM
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Dear all-

So some more confrontation happened today, but also some resolution.

In a nutshell last week I was placed in a compromising position involving a lawsuit for the company I work for and HIPAA. It took me until this morning to report "how" I was going to address it (which included reporting to my boss). She found out through other means and wanted more info from me. She was upset that I would not discuss with her. I was upset and felt like she was appropriately representing where I work, but not taking into account my personal license.

We had a brief confrontation earlier today. I ended up resolving my concerns with the companies legal council without breaking HIPAA afterwards.

I am frustrated and annoyed that I had to have another confrontation, but now feel VERY secure that I would behave in the same way again if faced with the same situation. Though I was appropriately concerned for my place of employment I also have a right to be concerned for my own wellbeing. Legal council and other departments reported to me that I did exactly what I should have.

I feel really firm in my whole body about this. That it was a good learning experience for me (i.e. it had to happen), that I maintained my personal and professional integrity.

I am hearing from you all that though it might not ever be comfortable; it may get easier.

I suspect there is more to come in this learning curve for me.

Thanks for all your support.
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