The lies just keep coming
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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The lies just keep coming
so after 25 years of marriage he wants to leave. He has emotionally, physically, spiritually, intellectually abandoned me years ago. So why is this a surprise? When he finally gave me the date he was leaving I really was so upset. Crying and basically begging him to stay. My self worth was in the toilet. So he'd say ok I'll stay and we will work on it. Then he gave me a note saying we will work on it in marriage counseling. We go to marriage counseling where he tells me he had no intention of working on it he just wanted me to leave him alone and stop being so sad. Omg. He lied about that?! I told him he was a very sick person and that was just cruel. He talked in counseling through tears about how badly he feels about how my kids had to endure living in an alcoholic home and he will spend the rest of his life fixing it. But me he tossed aside and never even says sorry. Then asks me after counseling if I want to go to dinner? He is so messing with my head I can't handle it. I want to be stronger than I am. Nobody deserves to be treated like this. Much less the mother of his children. I need to dig my self worth and self respect out of the toilet and say enough. Why is it so hard? Why am I so scared?? I'm so tired of all of this. 
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
I've been where you are-with total low self worth abd accepted dispicable behavior and also acted ridiculously (chasing after drunk cursing husband begging him to not leave me...wtf?!) your guy sounds like my ex-but there's nothing special about these guys-just typical alcohokics-total games and manipulation. Bleh. Whatever-I'm worth so much more and so are you. You deserve better...and simply by your posting what you did and recognizing it, YOU are getting stronger. Just wanted to say hello and send hugs and peace. Have a great night.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Amy....when you ask "why am I so scared".....I hope that is just a redundant question (another way of saying "I am so scared").....because you know yourself better than any of us p ossibly can......lol!
Have you ever tried to make a list of the things that you are scared of? That might sound easy...but, sometimes, it isn't.
I challenge you to do it, though.....
On paper, make a l ist of the 10 things you are the most afraid of ....then, arrange them in order of difficulty.. this is for you---not for anyone else's eyes.
You, for sure, are afraid of some things.....even if it is hard to articulate them, right now.
Knowing your fears is a first step in knowing which direction to go in.....with your tensy, tiny, first baby steps.....
I believe that you mentioned your therapit in other posts...(?)....
I hope so.....because, I can assure you that some---if not many----of your fears will be rooted in your childhood.....and carried into this relationship in your emotional carpet bag....(because that is what all of us do ).......especially if the relationship is an unhealthy one and we stay, even so.
I can answer one of the questions that you asked: "Why is this so hard?"
Well, because it just is.....change is hard for humans; there is the necessary grieving period (which I assume that you are already in to some extent)......
and then, there are the practical obstacles of life to be dealt with.......
You can get through this.....and, you will.....it just won't be overnight (don't we all wish that was possible...lol
dandylion
Have you ever tried to make a list of the things that you are scared of? That might sound easy...but, sometimes, it isn't.
I challenge you to do it, though.....
On paper, make a l ist of the 10 things you are the most afraid of ....then, arrange them in order of difficulty.. this is for you---not for anyone else's eyes.
You, for sure, are afraid of some things.....even if it is hard to articulate them, right now.
Knowing your fears is a first step in knowing which direction to go in.....with your tensy, tiny, first baby steps.....
I believe that you mentioned your therapit in other posts...(?)....
I hope so.....because, I can assure you that some---if not many----of your fears will be rooted in your childhood.....and carried into this relationship in your emotional carpet bag....(because that is what all of us do ).......especially if the relationship is an unhealthy one and we stay, even so.
I can answer one of the questions that you asked: "Why is this so hard?"
Well, because it just is.....change is hard for humans; there is the necessary grieving period (which I assume that you are already in to some extent)......
and then, there are the practical obstacles of life to be dealt with.......
You can get through this.....and, you will.....it just won't be overnight (don't we all wish that was possible...lol
dandylion
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Ending a relationship of 25 years is painful even under the best of circumstances. its a death. Human beings will naturally do what eases the pain which is to try an stop it.
You say your husband checked out years ago, my guess is the relationship is painful for you within it as well. Pain in, pain out. Its just that the "out" hurts so much more while the "in" is a much more insidious, slow bleeding out sort of pain that we can become accustomed too. In fact, maybe not even realize its there.
Your husband should not have said what he said, yet I do believe it is natural to try and stop others pain, or our own irritations. The truth is saying he is "sorry" to you would probably be very hollow - would it really do much? I doubt it. Its just a word. Actions are what heal. Your husband could use a good dose of guidance from the therapist in how to healthily handle this because he doesn't have a clue.
I am sorry for what you have gone through. On the other side of it you have a future that can be very different,, and very happy. I doubt that is much relief to you nor do you feel it. I encourage you to search on hear the stories of people in your same situation. There are many on here. There is nothing to me as wonderful as to read that after the fact they are more happy than they thought possible.
Why don't you start by making a list of the bullsh*t you will no longer have to put up with such as being married to a person who has abandoned you while you support him.
You say your husband checked out years ago, my guess is the relationship is painful for you within it as well. Pain in, pain out. Its just that the "out" hurts so much more while the "in" is a much more insidious, slow bleeding out sort of pain that we can become accustomed too. In fact, maybe not even realize its there.
Your husband should not have said what he said, yet I do believe it is natural to try and stop others pain, or our own irritations. The truth is saying he is "sorry" to you would probably be very hollow - would it really do much? I doubt it. Its just a word. Actions are what heal. Your husband could use a good dose of guidance from the therapist in how to healthily handle this because he doesn't have a clue.
I am sorry for what you have gone through. On the other side of it you have a future that can be very different,, and very happy. I doubt that is much relief to you nor do you feel it. I encourage you to search on hear the stories of people in your same situation. There are many on here. There is nothing to me as wonderful as to read that after the fact they are more happy than they thought possible.
Why don't you start by making a list of the bullsh*t you will no longer have to put up with such as being married to a person who has abandoned you while you support him.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Oh honey, you need to go to counseling alone, without him, for you.
That was the best thing I could have done for myself. Going made me stronger and good with myself, to the point that I knew whatever happened I would be OK, and my kids would too. And you know what, we are. I am now divorced and a much happier person. Take a look at the reasons you want him to stay. Is it him, or are you scared to be alone?
Sometimes the idea of that person is a lot better than they actually are.
I am so sorry you are hurting. Many hugs.
That was the best thing I could have done for myself. Going made me stronger and good with myself, to the point that I knew whatever happened I would be OK, and my kids would too. And you know what, we are. I am now divorced and a much happier person. Take a look at the reasons you want him to stay. Is it him, or are you scared to be alone?
Sometimes the idea of that person is a lot better than they actually are.
I am so sorry you are hurting. Many hugs.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
(((((Amy))))) It sounds like he hasn't been seeing you as a person in many years, friend. Like he's just so used to discounting you & steamrolling over you that he views you inanimately at this point & can't even manage empathy.
There's the possibility that his ego refuses to allow him to accept the real depths of the shame & blame he feels for his treatment of you over the years.... so he's choosing to run away from it rather than deal with it. That's certainly easier & fits in perfectly with the way he's been off & running into this new life as if his old one never existed. This is hurtful; in truth we can leave our spouses but not our children.
And sometimes there just IS too much to try to work through. There have been times ~many of them~ where I've been the one throwing up my hands & saying that this is too impossible to fix - everything is just too muddled, too convoluted, too hard to separate.
He's like 6 months into recovery at this point, right? Still early, still watch-n-see time, IMO. I'd do my best to disengage & separate as much as possible & observe, observe, observe. He's demonstrated how he can maintain a façade for a very long time before the cracks start to show.... what else will be revealed? In 5 yrs, you'll look back & see this time very differently. Does his attitude change when you stop engaging in the way he expects but in a way that honors your own needs?
Fear accompanies the unknown - that's why you're so scared. And if you're right about your codependency, it means you have a lot of work to do internally to start defining yourself differently & that's hard, vague work with no end, no trophies, no tangible way of measuring your success. That's daunting! It's EASIER to continue with the old rut we've been existing in - it's predictable.
There's the possibility that his ego refuses to allow him to accept the real depths of the shame & blame he feels for his treatment of you over the years.... so he's choosing to run away from it rather than deal with it. That's certainly easier & fits in perfectly with the way he's been off & running into this new life as if his old one never existed. This is hurtful; in truth we can leave our spouses but not our children.
And sometimes there just IS too much to try to work through. There have been times ~many of them~ where I've been the one throwing up my hands & saying that this is too impossible to fix - everything is just too muddled, too convoluted, too hard to separate.
He's like 6 months into recovery at this point, right? Still early, still watch-n-see time, IMO. I'd do my best to disengage & separate as much as possible & observe, observe, observe. He's demonstrated how he can maintain a façade for a very long time before the cracks start to show.... what else will be revealed? In 5 yrs, you'll look back & see this time very differently. Does his attitude change when you stop engaging in the way he expects but in a way that honors your own needs?
Fear accompanies the unknown - that's why you're so scared. And if you're right about your codependency, it means you have a lot of work to do internally to start defining yourself differently & that's hard, vague work with no end, no trophies, no tangible way of measuring your success. That's daunting! It's EASIER to continue with the old rut we've been existing in - it's predictable.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 333
Originally Posted by FindingAmy 
Then asks me after counseling if I want to go to dinner?
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 222
ForOurGirls, thank you for your post and your support. Knowing others have been in my shoes is so much comfort. For years I thought I was crazy, he called me crazy constantly. Through this site I realize, while it takes two, I wasn't crazy. I was reacting. And obviously still am, but working on it every day.
DandyLion he is moving out on November 7 which as I am healing and preparing is seeming like way too much time. Once we tell the kids, I want him out. He struts around the house doing his normal routine, happy as a clam. Going out with his AA buds, working out, going out to eat for 3 meals a day. He is a constant reminder that this is over and I feel like I can't heal properly with him sashaying throughout the house. I'm trying very hard to stay on my own path, but I feel like when he is not in my face and a reminder of the hard times and the loss of our future together, it will be slightly easier to move ahead.
As far as my fears, that was a good idea to list them. I'll put some thought into that. I think my biggest fear is that I went from college to married to kids. I am not sure about work (even though we own a biz together that probably will end) or finances. My biggest fear is telling my kids and that we will change their lives forever and I have incredible guilt about that even though I didn't do anything wrong, I feel awful. I come from a divorced home and I never wanted that for my kids and I feel my hands were forced. And sometimes I really hate him for that. For this.
Redatlanta, you are right on the money there. His leaving is incredibly painful, but his staying was a slow death to me. Your words were perfect, " insidious, slow bleeding out sort of pain that we can become accustomed too. In fact, maybe not even realize its there." That is so true. That's exactly what it was. And i was more comfortable being unhappy than being uncomfortable. I feel like we put off the inevitable for many years. It's just the reality and finality of it all.
Your advice to make a list of things I won't miss was a real eye opener. It made me REALLY realize I never ever had a husband or a partner. He was never there for me, since the beginning, emotionally, physically, intellectually, spiritually, or anything else. From the beginning I used to complain that I was raising the kids alone, that I was budgeting our finances alone, that he didn't get my jokes, that he couldn't have conversation, that he couldn't connect. I always thought it was me being needy. But he offered me nothing. I was 22 when I got married and it seemed like a good idea at the time! Who knew I'd end up here. I handle all the finances, the house, the kids, the dog, the food, everything. He didn't offer me any type of companionship. Ever. When my mother had a stroke and was in a coma he recently told me he was happy in a way because I spent all my time at the hospital and he would stay home and drink. I was like, oh my god, right, he never ever came to the hospital. I was so wrapped up with my mother I never realized he never offered me any support or comfort. My mother had a seizure last night and I had to run over to the hospital to see she was ok and I didn't even bother telling him because there was no reason, then or now. He wouldn't have offered me any support anyway.
My stepfather used to say X is going to do what X is going to do. He lives in his own head and does whatever he wants. I finally get what he meant. My husband is quite the narcissist.
FireSprite you are right about the rut being predictable. It sucked but it's what I knew. Looking back on this in 5 years? I hope I have done tremendous healing, love who I am, find myself worthy, have found new adventures, have found financial stability, have found someone who honors and cherishes me. 5 years. Boy, I look forward to 5 years from now. For me AND my kids. I hope they heal as well.
Lastly, Thomas45, it is a sadistic attempt to manipulate me. Anyone that meets my husband says he is the nicest guy, best guy, sweetest salt of the earth kind of guy, the guy that would give you the shirt off of his back. Nobody knows. He uses his "nice guy" attitude to manipulate people. He uses it to mess up, forget, be unreliable, and then be a "nice guy" and apologize to no end and everyone forgives him because he's so "nice". When I would tell people how he screams at me and bangs things, nobody believed it. I'm sure they feel I drove him to be like that because there is no way he would be like that on his own, he's too nice. Right.
I remember when I started therapy a year or so ago, my therapist said anyone that is that "nice" can be a red flag that something is going on. Seems she was right. His nice guy thing he used to pull on me was he'd totally disappoint me for the millionth time, I'd hit the roof in complete and utter frustration, and then he'd say, whats the big deal, you gotta relax, you get so bent out of shape, it's not the end of the world, etc. That's when I'd walk away thinking I was crazy. He admits all of that now. What a "nice guy".
In the end, yes, he shows a clear lack of true empathy. Not once, since he came out with being an alcoholic has he apologized, shown any remorse, etc. Even with leaving he says he's doing it for him because he wants to be alone and I'm a reminder of how it "was". He feels badly about how he treated our kids with his lies, but not me.
I'm so done. I need to get my life back. I am eternally grateful for all of you and this site.
DandyLion he is moving out on November 7 which as I am healing and preparing is seeming like way too much time. Once we tell the kids, I want him out. He struts around the house doing his normal routine, happy as a clam. Going out with his AA buds, working out, going out to eat for 3 meals a day. He is a constant reminder that this is over and I feel like I can't heal properly with him sashaying throughout the house. I'm trying very hard to stay on my own path, but I feel like when he is not in my face and a reminder of the hard times and the loss of our future together, it will be slightly easier to move ahead.
As far as my fears, that was a good idea to list them. I'll put some thought into that. I think my biggest fear is that I went from college to married to kids. I am not sure about work (even though we own a biz together that probably will end) or finances. My biggest fear is telling my kids and that we will change their lives forever and I have incredible guilt about that even though I didn't do anything wrong, I feel awful. I come from a divorced home and I never wanted that for my kids and I feel my hands were forced. And sometimes I really hate him for that. For this.
Redatlanta, you are right on the money there. His leaving is incredibly painful, but his staying was a slow death to me. Your words were perfect, " insidious, slow bleeding out sort of pain that we can become accustomed too. In fact, maybe not even realize its there." That is so true. That's exactly what it was. And i was more comfortable being unhappy than being uncomfortable. I feel like we put off the inevitable for many years. It's just the reality and finality of it all.
Your advice to make a list of things I won't miss was a real eye opener. It made me REALLY realize I never ever had a husband or a partner. He was never there for me, since the beginning, emotionally, physically, intellectually, spiritually, or anything else. From the beginning I used to complain that I was raising the kids alone, that I was budgeting our finances alone, that he didn't get my jokes, that he couldn't have conversation, that he couldn't connect. I always thought it was me being needy. But he offered me nothing. I was 22 when I got married and it seemed like a good idea at the time! Who knew I'd end up here. I handle all the finances, the house, the kids, the dog, the food, everything. He didn't offer me any type of companionship. Ever. When my mother had a stroke and was in a coma he recently told me he was happy in a way because I spent all my time at the hospital and he would stay home and drink. I was like, oh my god, right, he never ever came to the hospital. I was so wrapped up with my mother I never realized he never offered me any support or comfort. My mother had a seizure last night and I had to run over to the hospital to see she was ok and I didn't even bother telling him because there was no reason, then or now. He wouldn't have offered me any support anyway.
My stepfather used to say X is going to do what X is going to do. He lives in his own head and does whatever he wants. I finally get what he meant. My husband is quite the narcissist.
FireSprite you are right about the rut being predictable. It sucked but it's what I knew. Looking back on this in 5 years? I hope I have done tremendous healing, love who I am, find myself worthy, have found new adventures, have found financial stability, have found someone who honors and cherishes me. 5 years. Boy, I look forward to 5 years from now. For me AND my kids. I hope they heal as well.
Lastly, Thomas45, it is a sadistic attempt to manipulate me. Anyone that meets my husband says he is the nicest guy, best guy, sweetest salt of the earth kind of guy, the guy that would give you the shirt off of his back. Nobody knows. He uses his "nice guy" attitude to manipulate people. He uses it to mess up, forget, be unreliable, and then be a "nice guy" and apologize to no end and everyone forgives him because he's so "nice". When I would tell people how he screams at me and bangs things, nobody believed it. I'm sure they feel I drove him to be like that because there is no way he would be like that on his own, he's too nice. Right.
I remember when I started therapy a year or so ago, my therapist said anyone that is that "nice" can be a red flag that something is going on. Seems she was right. His nice guy thing he used to pull on me was he'd totally disappoint me for the millionth time, I'd hit the roof in complete and utter frustration, and then he'd say, whats the big deal, you gotta relax, you get so bent out of shape, it's not the end of the world, etc. That's when I'd walk away thinking I was crazy. He admits all of that now. What a "nice guy".
In the end, yes, he shows a clear lack of true empathy. Not once, since he came out with being an alcoholic has he apologized, shown any remorse, etc. Even with leaving he says he's doing it for him because he wants to be alone and I'm a reminder of how it "was". He feels badly about how he treated our kids with his lies, but not me.
I'm so done. I need to get my life back. I am eternally grateful for all of you and this site.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Finding Amy.....ever hear of the saying in recovery circles of "going to the hardware store for a loaf of bread"?
Your husband reminds me of that saying..(he is the hardware store),
My children's father was like that.
This man has not met your needs for the emotional intimacy and nurturance that is required in healthy relationships. for whatever the reasons may be.....he doesn't seem to be able or willing to do so.
It is natural for you wo want that in a relationship.....and, I am sure that you have the scars to show for it.
You can heal, though. You are in a lot of pain, now. But, you can eventually heal.
You need to believe with all your heart that you are going to heal!!!!
dandylion
Your husband reminds me of that saying..(he is the hardware store),
My children's father was like that.
This man has not met your needs for the emotional intimacy and nurturance that is required in healthy relationships. for whatever the reasons may be.....he doesn't seem to be able or willing to do so.
It is natural for you wo want that in a relationship.....and, I am sure that you have the scars to show for it.
You can heal, though. You are in a lot of pain, now. But, you can eventually heal.
You need to believe with all your heart that you are going to heal!!!!
dandylion
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