Is my RAH really an A?

Old 09-15-2015, 09:43 AM
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Is my RAH really an A?

My husband and I were watching a movie last night (Black or White) and the guys friend said to him something like, "you are not an alcoholic, just a little misguided".

I looked at my husband and that is what I see. Not an alcoholic, but a man who once past his sadness and feeling worthless, is perfectly fine. The reason I say this is, he was in the Air Force for 3 years and drank while there. (me 20yrs so I know what goes on) That's what a lot of us did while in the service. He was married for 10 years and might have had 5 beers the whole time. After she left him he didn't think highly of himself and had his dad in his ear telling him he "has the bug, be careful". Which I don't think was good!! So he took the attitude of, "F-it, I have the bug so here I go". He started drinking when he would feel down and worthless to drown it out. I have other threads so I am not going into every detail.

To me, and I am probably wrong, this doesn't seem like the actions of an alcoholic. After all of the reading I have done, it seems he can shut it off anytime he wants as long as he is happy. A lot of people have something they turn to when they feel down or worthless and it's not always alcohol. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard someone at work say, "Man, I've had a rough day, I am going home and having a beer/drink". There sure would be a lot of alcoholics in this world if that was the case.

Is my husbands situation more along the lines of him actually needing therapy to feel better about himself and he is taking the alcoholic route for whatever reason or is he actually an alcoholic? Right now he says he is the happiest he has ever been and has no desire to have a beer. That is why I say what I say about him not really being an alcoholic, but just a person who needs help getting past bad feelings about themself.

I have had this thought in my head for a month or so now and hearing that line in the movie made me say, "Hmmmmm". I didn't say anything to him about it. I am not trying to sabotage him and his program whatsoever, just want to throw that question out there.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:50 AM
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Honestly I think it is entirely up to him to choose the designation that is most meaningful and helpful to him. I don't think needing therapy to feel better about oneself is mutually exclusive from having an addiction to alcohol.
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Old 09-15-2015, 09:52 AM
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Hi Kimmi. I haven't read your other threads, so I'm not sure of your history, but I think one of the keys of whether someone is an alcoholic is whether it has caused a problem in his life. I also think one of the hallmarks of an alcoholic is they turn to drinking to numb their pain, which is not healthy. Yes, I may have a glass of wine when I had a stressful day, but I don't drink every single time I feel stressed.

Also, remember, alcoholism is a progressive disease, meaning that in time, the drinking will become more and more.
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:15 AM
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Kimmi, you've been posting from the very beginning about how angry you are at the whole "recovery" thing. It seems to me that you're looking for some loophole that will excuse your husband from being involved in AA.

I get that you don't like it. You say that you "don't want to sabotage him and his program"--yet, what would be the PURPOSE of your concluding that he's "not really an alcoholic"? What does that do for you? What does it do for him? Do you mean to suggest that you would just keep that information in the back of your mind and not have it color your attitude toward him and his program? That if he were on the fence about having a drink, or giving up AA, you wouldn't say, "Well, maybe you've got a point. You're feeling a lot better about yourself these days, so you probably aren't really an alcoholic"?

I guess I'm questioning your motives for asking. I also think that as well as you might THINK you know him, you can't possibly KNOW how he feels about drinking--what it has done for him, how he thinks about it. He might be able to "control" his drinking for discrete periods of time, the way I was able to. But the obsession was always there, and I couldn't get rid of it and be happily sober until I quit playing around and deluding myself about the true nature of my problem.

I suggest you leave the diagnosis and treatment to him, and quit trying to find a way out of the fact that you are married to an alcoholic. Acceptance.
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Old 09-15-2015, 10:37 AM
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I agree that it's up to him to define himself. If HE identifies as an alcoholic, he is.

It sounds like you might be taking some assumptions as fact - how do you KNOW "He was married for 10 years and might have had 5 beers the whole time."? Were you standing right there? 24/7 for 10 years?

How do you KNOW he felt like this: "After she left him he didn't think highly of himself and had his dad in his ear telling him he "has the bug, be careful". Which I don't think was good!! So he took the attitude of, "F-it, I have the bug so here I go". " Even if this is true..... so what? Addiction is a mental war for sure, but physical dependency can lead to mental dependency too. It doesn't matter where he started out, it matters where he ended up. I'm starting to question how much of my RAH's issues are rooted in untreated ADHD after lots of reading - but even if he gets this diagnosis it won't erase his addiction. He can never go back in time & NOT be an alcoholic at this point. No matter what.

These aren't facts. In your own words, this is what YOU see. I didn't see the picture accurately when I tried to view my RAH this way either, because I was never inside his head. All the things I thought made sense based on what I knew were still incomplete guesses - not facts.

My RAH maintained sobriety easily during happy times too, for a long, long time. But when things got challenging & then downright hard he couldn't sustain it & while he stressed, he spiraled quickly.

That is why I say what I say about him not really being an alcoholic, but just a person who needs help getting past bad feelings about themself.
This is true of EVERY alcoholic I have ever known; drinking to bury discomfort/emotions in some way. It definitely applies to my RAH and it doesn't stop him from identifying as an alcoholic in any way.
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:44 AM
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Right now he says he is the happiest he has ever been and has no desire to have a beer. That is why I say what I say about him not really being an alcoholic, but just a person who needs help getting past bad feelings about themself.
As a recovering alcoholic (23 years) I very rarely think about alcohol but I'm still an alcoholic. A non-a can decide to have a one or two drinks and no problem. But if I pick up a drink I may think I'll have a drink or two but won't be able to stop. I lack some switch in the brain that helps me stop. If I go back to drinking I won't be able to prevent my life from going in a downward spiral.
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Old 09-15-2015, 11:49 AM
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It doesn't matter why you drink, it matters what happens when you pick up a drink. As a recovering alcoholic (23 years) I rarely think about drinking but I'm still an alcoholic. A non-alcoholic can decide to have a drink or two and manage with no problem. But as an alcoholic I can think the same thing but won't be able to stop. I lack a switch in the brain that tells me when to stop.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:09 PM
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One other thing to consider. You wrote:
Originally Posted by Kimmi0087 View Post
Right now he says he is the happiest he has ever been and has no desire to have a beer. That is why I say what I say about him not really being an alcoholic, but just a person who needs help getting past bad feelings about themself.
You're confusing cause and effect. Most alcoholics, when they finally treat their alcoholism and really begin to recover, feel the happiest they ever have. The Steps are a way of treating the causes and conditions of alcoholism. So yes, recovered alcoholics are happier AND they no longer need to drink. That doesn't mean they weren't alcoholic to begin with, nor does it mean they are no longer alcoholics. Relapses often happen when an alcoholic walks away from the program that treated the alcoholism.

The same would be true for recovery from any other serious illness. Does the fact that someone who has recovered from cancer is happy and has a new appreciation for life mean that the person was never really sick to begin with? Of course not. Same here.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:21 PM
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I only know about how he felt after his married, etc....because that is what he told me. About him having only a few beers because that is what he told me. But, he lied about his drinking (how much) during our marriage so why did I choose to believe that.

That is why I asked the question, to get responses as to why I might feel this way.

It is hard for me to understand how he can say he doesn't even want a beer and then be fighting an obsession at the same time. You all are right, because I don't have the disease I can't possibly know what goes on in his head.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:38 PM
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Jimmi....non-alcoholics don't just decide to call themselves an A and faithfully go to AA meetings....out of the blue. What would be their purpose in that...?

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Old 09-15-2015, 12:40 PM
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Tried to do the quote thing for what you said LexieCat and it didn't work. But, thank you for what you said. It makes sense about the illness thing.

I hesitate to write on here because I don't want people thinking I am being mean or hateful towards him because that couldn't be further from the truth. I am just trying to understand which will help with my healing, which I need.

Last edited by Kimmi0087; 09-15-2015 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Wrote wrong thing
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:48 PM
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Here's how my own drinking worked. I drank a lot at parties only in high school. When I went away to college (and nursing a broken heart at the same time) I met my first husband--a full-blown alcoholic at 18. He and I were drinking buddies through college. When I graduated, I started working and seldom drank--and my then-boyfriend's (future husband's) drinking really bothered me. He finally got sober in AA and 35 years later remains sober without a single slip. The whole time we were married I rarely drank.

When my first marriage ended, I met alcoholic number two--my own drinking ramped up, and again I had a drinking buddy. When he almost died from alcohol, I quit drinking to support his recovery. Eventually THAT marriage broke up due to his drinking.

When I left him, I started drinking a lot, especially at home. I got into a new relationship with someone who seldom drank, but at that point my drinking steadily escalated to the point where I could no longer quit or control it. I struggled for four years trying to "moderate" my drinking but could not. Through all of that time there was nothing external about my life that was bad. I had a good job, family, friends.

Nobody knows what makes some people become alcoholics and others not. My first husband was an alcoholic from almost his first drink. I, on the other hand, had red flags and a tendency toward it from the beginning, but it was later in life that I developed the obsession to drink. Recovery lifts the obsession.

If your husband is really working a good program, he may very well no longer have the obsession to drink. That's what recovery is intended to accomplish. But it doesn't mean the obsession is gone forever. If he drinks, or if he gets complacent about his program, then it can roar back to life. And often the post-relapse drinking is worse than it was before the alcoholic quit in the first place.

I know you have something of an aversion to AA, but if you were to go to a few meetings (not necessarily with him--you are welcome at any "open" meeting) and listen to others share about their experiences, you might understand it a little better. I don't think any non-alcoholic can TRULY understand, but you could get a lot closer to understanding.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:49 PM
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Not everyone who quits deals with obsessions. I didn't. But, if I were to pick up again I sure would obsess. That is the nature of addiction. I might be able to exercise control over it for a while but it would be a Herculean effort and eventually I would lose.

Ask an ex smoker if they can enjoy the occasional smoke and they will tell you the same thing. One or two they might control for a bit but give them a week and they will be right back to their pack a day habit. That's addiction.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:50 PM
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I can see that you're just asking a question that has been on your mind for some sort of clarity in understanding your husband better....

But from where I stand, alcohol sucks. Even if my man were not a true alcoholic, if he decided he needed to quit and/ or get help doing that, then by all means, he better quit.

I find it hard to accept all the nostalgia that we place around drinking and drinking activities in the face of all the horrible things that can come with it.

On a side note, I wouldn't say that I myself am an alcoholic. However, 3 of my parents are/were (step parent, and 2 blood parents), so it is highly likely that I may choose a similar path. I do find myself battling the idea that I could use a drink when I am stressed. That line of thinking is a pretty thin line between "normal" destressing and knowing that I have some voice trying to convince me that I actually NEED a drink in order to de-stress.

We all have go-to's to help us de-stress. Some of us tend to choose destructive ways of coping.... I think an alcoholic has to learn how to cope with life on life's terms without turning to alcohol.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:52 PM
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Kimmi-

I don't know if this applies for you or not but your post brought this up for me.

I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out the "why" of this disease for my loved one. Some of this was for me, as I was trying to figure out if any of this was caused by me somehow and "what" I could do to try and make my loved ones life "okay" so he would not want to drink again.

Some was confusion. My ex that got me here was a binge drinker. So most of the time his daily consumption of alcohol was okay. Two to four times a year though I had to watch out because it was going to be bad. Problem was I never knew when those times were. I was under the false belief that if I took all the stress out of his life he would not desire to drink.

I don't know if my ex was an alcoholic or not. He was a problem drinker, and his drinking impacted me negatively for a long time. I started to feel better when I started using that as my barameter, not what he said about alcohol his use etc. He was telling me the best truths that he could, but they were truths shrouded by him trying to continue to convince me and himself it was all okay.

His relationship with alcohol was about his disease.

My relationship with trying to make it okay and perfect was about my disease. I thought if I could just put all the pieces together we would be happy and perfect.
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Old 09-15-2015, 01:02 PM
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Kimmi.....it seems that since he started his recovery program (after you threatened to leave him).....that HE has seemed happy and is "doing well"....while you have become more miserable. He has this new focus in his life...meetings, friends and others that he relates to.
It leaves me wondering if You feel left behind....with not having any of the hurt and lies, and other stuff that you put up with for so long, recognized? No amends and appreciation coming your way. After all, wouldn't it have been your due for him to be grateful for what y ou have done for him and to hear h im express true sorrow for the pain that his drinking has caused you?

I say this because this is almost universally common feeling that the long-suffering partners of alcoholics experience AFTER the alcoholic enters recovery.
This usually comes as a shock to the partner. Most partners are completely unprepared for the kinds of feelings that appear in their A's recovery. They do not realize how much the dynamics change in the relationship after the drinking is taken away as the focus of their relationship revolved around. Take away the drinking...and they are completely, and, unexpectedly, boomschwaggled!
They didn't realize that their relationship was a "dance" that they did together...kind of like the Argentine Tango. Moving back and forth almost in unison.
When one person in a relationship changes...and the other one doesn't...that brings discord into the relationship. (any relationship).

It is said, by most, that the first year (especially) of recovery can be more difficult than the period of actual drinking....especially for the partner. One would expect the first year to be tough for the A---but who k new that this was also true for the partner?!

Have you ever talked to your husbands about your feelings...?

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Old 09-15-2015, 08:27 PM
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I remember years ago being so very afraid my stbxah may be an alcoholic that I called AA for advice. The man on the other end of the line asked me if his drinking bothered me and I said yes. Mr. AA told me that if it bothers me and he still won't stop and is trying to hide it because he knows it bothers me, then he probably has an issue and the problem cannot be fixed by me. It took me several years to come out of my denial, but I did.
So, question is, do you have a problem with his drinking?
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:00 AM
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I can't say whether your H is an alcoholic or not. Sometimes it plays out over the course of years.

As a recovering A myself I can tell you I didn't drink much at all in my 20s and most of my 30s, but then I gradually ramped up to problem levels for the next 15 years or so, with some breaks in between.

When I finally stopped I was up to a bottle of wine a night, and that's why I can't return to the moderation of my earlier life. I've rewired my brain now, and if I drink again I'll start craving alcohol and eventually end up buying my nightly bottle or more.

With your H, time will tell whether he's capable of moderate drinking in the long term. Of course if he never drinks again the issue won't arise.
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Old 09-16-2015, 09:56 AM
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That is what he told me in the beginning...if he had a drink now it would be worse on him than the drinking before he stopped. He explained how his body keeps going with the destruction to it for so long after he quits drinking. That a drink would not take him back to where he was when he quit, but much further ahead than he was.

I always appreciate your words LexieCat.
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Old 09-16-2015, 10:02 AM
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happybeingme....I am an ex smoker, so I know what you are talking about. I will be smoke free for a year on November 4th. He smokes also. I don't have the urge to pick up a cigarette whatsoever. I did mention to him how I have made concessions for his recovery but he hasn't with his smoking. I am not asking him to quit for me because other than the smell, it doesn't bother me. He smokes in his truck when I ride with him which seems inconsiderate because I don't drink around him. Not once has he asked or taken it upon himself to keep it away from me. Even though it is not necessary, because I don't want to smoke again, it would've been nice for him to at least show respect/consideration to begin with.
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