Carrie2015

I met a man, (on a online dating site). We talked a few times on the phone (five times for extended conversations) and eventually I asked him about drinking habits. By the way, on my dating profile I pointed out I don't date addicts/alcoholics which I think a recovering alcoholic would look twice at and probably avoid me. Anyway, he said he did not drink. I asked why? He said "I have an allergy to alcohol; it makes me do stupid things and commit felons". (I almost choked, and a million thoughts went through my head, like "Whyyyyyyy...why are there so many alcoholics"... But I remained calm and said, "Oh, I see, so you are a recovering alcoholic? I have had some experience with people with alcoholism, it's a rough experience" His response was dismissive; something like, "If you want to hear the whole sordid story sometime....", and he quickly changed the subject. So, my take from this is the following. The alcoholic has a difficult situation to gauge when and how to talk about the important issues, such as how long they have been sober. It's really on them to create a comfort level for (us), the non addict who is considering dating them. This conversation was to me a deal breaker. I don't think I would date him even casually because I am too nervous about alcoholics especially when they make a joke about being a "felon". But this evasive conversation was the deal breaker. It's no joking matter. It's not something I can be casual about or give the benefit of the doubt. I emailed him a couple days later and told him I didn't think we had enough in common...etc.

For those folks who date out there, at what point do you bring up drinking habits or if you are a recovering alcoholic, when do you feel like bringing the subject up? So many first or second dates involve a drink.

Thanks

Carrie

Austin4Wyo

I bring it up as soon as I hear/read something about meeting drinks. I then ask if getting coffee instead would be an option. I also encourage them to ASK ME about my situation, rather than making assumptions or remaining in ignorance.

Or would if I was dating. I tried once earlier this summer. It went...poorly. Comically poorly, actually, so I'm not tripping.

I'm also spending the time not dating on creating an index of Mister Rogers sweaters amd cat names for my middle aged, single years after I don't meet anyone.

*snicker*

Carrie2015

It would have been a very different situation if this man would have made the offer to ask him. Silence and avoidance tells me he has a ways to go. And I am probably make assumptions and I remain in ignorance. Thanks for the humor about dating and how comical it can be.

endlesspatience

Why do you think the comment about committing felony was a joke?

Online dating is a bit of a nightmare.

Austin4Wyo

I agree. Full disclosure, for me anyway, is easier with strangers. The encouraging discussion FORCES honesty, candor, and proaction, as well as accountability. If/when other opportunities arise, this will likely remaun my approach. If'n she's got a problem with it, it's her problem, not mine.

Regardless, I hope you're confident and comfortable in your decision. He may be in better recovery than he lets on, he may not, but it's YOUR comfort level that was affected by his choice to deflect. Regardless of whether you choose to see another person in recovery or not, this guy rubbed you wrong. That, to this guy who very much believes in personal power and being true to one's self, should be all the justification you need.

Carrie2015

endlesspatience....I don't know if it was a joke or not. If he wanted to be open with me, he had plenty of opportunity. So, I will never know and I am ok with that. I am tired of trying to figure out what people are thinking. I have done that too much.

LexieCat

If you don't want to date him then don't. I certainly wouldn't feel obligated to tell someone I'm a recovered alcoholic before the first date. If it looked like I'd be seeing this person on a regular basis, then yes.

Suppose he interrogated you about how many men you've slept with, just because he'd once been cheated on and the prospect of THAT made him nervous. And suppose you made a joke, rather than answering a rather personal question from someone you hadn't even met in person yet. Or suppose he demanded to know your credit score because he'd been hurt by someone who was a compulsive spender? Sure, he'd be free not to date you because you couldn't satisfy his "comfort level." I don't think that would mean you should reveal personal information before the first few dates.

It's a DATE, not a lifetime commitment. The whole POINT of dating is to get to know someone, and many of them will turn out to be fun dates but not people you want to marry or even have a long-term relationship with.

Hangnbyathread

Here is my approach. Usually in the course of getting to know one another, you talk about life, history etc. I'm very open about it. My last relationship ended due to alcoholism. She couldn't kick it, and I couldn't live with it.

That sometimes leads them into asking questions about what happened etc. If they seem to like my candor, they ask if I would be uncomfortable if they drank. No not at all. My problem isn't if someone drinks, my problem is if it excessive and destructive.

This allows for them to relax, and you get to see what drinking means to them. For some you can't be around, for others they are simply having social drinks and it isn't a problem.

To say to someone, or to yourself, if they drink I can't be around them.....because they may be an alcoholics, penalizes you both.

Now the comments he made...could be redflags....or they could be an attempt at humor. You can only see how they act once they are relaxed. Over time. Way more than 2 dates as far as I'm concerned.

Carrie2015

I think the point is, is that it's not so simple once you have had a relationship with an active alcoholic. Clearly I am wary and not clear on what it means to be a recovered alcoholic and not clear on the depth of damage to me and my own recovery. Lexie...I did not interrogate him. I learned that people are going to do what they do and digging for information does not work. I learned that more will be revealed over time. He offered up that he did not drink and I asked him why and that's when he said he was "allergic...felon "....etc. I did not ask more, except to tell him I had a difficult experience with an alcoholic.

I think I handled this well. I listened to my intuition and gut and made a decision to pass on dating him. This is not his issue, it is mine. I prefer to date people who are social drinkers. I am a social drinker; I understand that world, but admit I don't understand the recovered alcoholic. There are too many things you need to figure out. How long have they been sober, are they in a program, can I drink in front of them or not, relapses etc.

Carrie

healthyagain

If I ever ever start dating again, that is going to be question/issue number one.

"I have an allergy to alcohol; it makes me do stupid things and commit felons". This might be considered a quack. And it also means that he did stupid things and committed felons.

My father has always said that marriage is like Russian roulette. And sorry for him being so graphic, but I think I know now what he meant.

LexieCat

I wasn't criticizing your choice not to date him--I would never suggest anyone date someone who made them uncomfortable for ANY reason. It was the implication that it's our duty as alcoholics in recovery to disclose everything before we've been on a date.

When I said, "interrogate" I meant question him. You asked him WHY he doesn't drink. When he answered in a flippant way you pressed him on whether he was an alcoholic in recovery. And that put HIM in an awkward position.

If you feel that strongly about it maybe you should put it in your profile. When you post that you won't date alcoholics/addicts, add "no matter how long they've been clean and sober."

healthyagain

I tried editing my post, but was not able. So . . . just to add . . .

After only reading that sentence, I just got this nasty gut feeling and lots of red flags. I did not even consider that there is a possibility that this was a joke. And my experience affected how I interpret this sentence. It is no wonder that you want to know, but can you ever be sure? And is it worth the risk?

Carrie2015

I feel defensive and judged by you Lexie, like I did something wrong. I thought I handled it well. He told me he didn't drink and I asked why. It could have been many reasons and I didn't get the joke about allergy/felon. I didn't want to assume so I asked if he was an alcoholic in recovery. I didn't press him. I don't think it's the duty of an alcoholic to disclose everything. But I have to ask you Lexie. Would you tell someone you don't drink and then be offended if they ask why? If you volunteer that, why be offended if they ask why? Am I not understanding something? I wrote this email because I am wondering what other people's experience is. Not to feel like I interrogated him or otherwise was inappropriate. I am (maybe) not adverse to dating a long time in recovery alcoholic. I have tons of respect for someone in long term recovery. One of my best friends is an amazing woman who has friggin 30 years under her belt; she is a sponsor and walks the talk, big time. I had more of an issue of whether he was actually a felon and could be glib about it. I'm sorry, but you can't make jokes like that. Not funny. Not all alcoholics are felons.

LexieCat

It's a joke I've heard a million times. "I'm allergic, I break out in handcuffs." He could have gotten highly indignant and walked away from YOU for asking personal questions. Most of us sober alcoholics get tired of the "WHY aren't you drinking" questions. Rather than get indignant, he made a joke that you didn't care for. He didn't like your question, you didn't like his answer. Fair enough.

Again, I'm not criticizing ANY of your choices in terms of whom you date or why. I'm just suggesting that your sense of indignation might be a little misplaced. Apparently you didn't like him, so move on. Not that big a deal.

AnvilheadII

i was going to bring up the handcuffs reference too. considering you guys hadn't even HAD a date yet only talking on the phone, i'm sure from his side he did't care to reveal TOO much to a basic stranger. his response was appropriate, TO ME.....have a problem with the stuff, and bad things happened. 'nuff said. my 2nd ex was/is very involved in NA and always put a funny/humorous spin on things like that.....altho he was never a felon he was once arrested for spitting on his neighbor's wife and having an unlicensed dog.

what i do admire about your post is that you are creating boundaries that make you feel safe. and while starting to engage in the online dating world, keeping true to yourself and what you want.

Tansy

I only date men I have know as friends for a long time through things I do in the community. I know they don't drink and I asked straightaway but didn't take their word for it ( alcoholics lie) so I have seen how they handle drink in social settings over months of knowing them as friends. I have one particular friend who is becoming much more and we are gearing up to a proper relationship. We are taking things very slow. I know him well. I have spent hours talking with him and seen him in many situations with friends and alone. I could not go on a cold date with someone I didn't know as a friend first. I couldn't date a recovering alcoholic or addict either. I meet many in the course of my work but it's a deal breaker no matter how charming they are. I am never going down that road again. It gives me a panic attack to even consider it. I would have asked the same as you did. Then it would have been a case of Next!

Carrie2015

I see there are a lot of different opinions and emotions on this subject. I know for me, I don't pretend I am not highly emotional about this subject and I approach a RA with the respect and caution deserved. From what I understand alcoholism is not just a disease of drinking, but much more. I learned the hard way, with a relationship. I watched my boyfriend slowly and painfully self destruct. It leaves scars. I can relate to Tansy...it gives me a panic attack to consider it and I will take Lexiecats suggestion to put in my dating profile more detail. I can't have an online blind date with a RA. Way too many unknowns.

This has been a good conversation. By talking this through, I know now I can never date a RA who is a stranger. It would be a situation where I got to know him in person, as a friend first over time.

Bernadette777

Hi gang,

While reading here, let me share that my exabf on our very first date said, (as he accidentally clinked his drink against the water glass) "oh, excuse me honey, I don't want you to think I'm a alcoholic)" I said why would say that? He said, because I'm talking with my hands here and banged my drink into the water glass, don't think I drink too much" ----- fast forward 2 months later - the issue reared its ugly head. 7 months later, we faded out. My Heart was still hurting- but now I'm learning to see he didn't respective my actions, heart or words. But he respects his bottle. Lesson: trust your instincts. Have a good evening guys! 'Bernie

stephendu

He might have found it weird that you asked if he was a recovering alcoholic. I wouldn't ask anybody that.

Carrie2015

So this was our 5th or so long conversation on the phone. We have shared other personal things...nothing huge...family, work, our relationships with siblings etc.

So about 45 minutes into a conversation we are talking about dating, first dates and stuff and how bars are usually involved etc. So he says "I don't drink"
I say "why"
He says, "because I have an allergy to alcohol, when I drink I do crazy stuff and commit felonies."
Me: taken off guard say, "Oh, are you a recovering alcoholic?"

What else is there to say at that point? Do I say "Oh, that's cool that you are allergic and do crazy felon stuff". ? I don't know the inside lingo to RA jokes. It seems that you assume that it was rude for me to ask the question. Again, HE brought it up. I may not be an expert on inside lingo to alcoholism, but I do know something about dating. And part of dating is finding out major things BEFORE going out with a stranger. Things like, being married, or a criminal, or disrespectful, creepy whatever. What I found out about this man is he was "glib" in my opinion about something that is important to most people. Hey, he did not have to tell me he doesn't drink. That was HIS choice. After that, I have the right to ask why. It's how dating works.