pattyj

My mom has planned a vacation for us for next December and July. I have told her that I don't know my work schedule and can't commit to anything but she knows that I probably won't go because of her drinking. I have told her in the past that I will no longer go on vacations with her because of her drinking. The vacations she has planned are within driving distance. Not going is going to result in me losing out on family time with my niece and nephews. Should I go and deal with the drinking, tell my mom that she needs to not drink while I am there or I will leave, or should I not go at all?

My mom has had some health issues lately which resulted in a fall right after holding my newborn niece. My sister freaked out and told her that she couldn't have the kids overnight nor could she stand while holding the new baby. That threat quickly went out the door a week or so later and the kids are back to staying with their grandparents every once in a while as well as my mom walking around while holding the baby and being allowed to be alone with the baby.

I have also threatened that I will not be around my mom because of her drinking but I have not followed through on that threat.

I don't know what to do. I am over 2 years sober and I feel that I can handle people drinking. What I can't handle is people getting stupid drunk. I am worried about the upcoming holidays. I don't want to miss out on those times but I can't stand being around my mom. My therapist says to have an 'out' and I always do. But I never use it. My mom doesn't openly drink in front of me, she hides it. I can tell instantly when she has taken something or had a drink but I don't actually see it so I don't feel that I can call her out on it. My dad is very co-dependent and my brother and sister don't hold their threats of taking the kids away from my mom and are also co-dependent on my mom for money and babysitting.

Communication is my family is non-existent. We don't talk about anything and my mom's problem is brushed under the rug with excuses. I almost don't want to be around anyone in my family anymore. I am definitely the black sheep in the family. While I want to walk out on my mom when we are having a family get together and announce that it is because of her drinking. I just don't have the balls to do it. She is very controlling and manipulative but it's hard to get out of her grip after being in it for 32 years.

Any advice? I figured once I got sober everything would get better. But that's not the case, everything has come to light and now I have to deal with it.

AnvilheadII

vacations are supposed to be relaxing, enjoyable and fun.

a period of suspension of work, study, or other activity, usually used for rest, recreation, or travel; recess or holiday (dictionary.com).

nothing you describe about your family dynamics or spending time with them appears to meet ANY of that criteria.

why not do something YOU enjoy? go somewhere YOU want to go. expand YOUR horizons, explore some place new.

MIRecovery

I don't tolerate toxic people in my life. Life is just to short.

pattyj

Thank you so much MIRecovery! I got rid of all the toxic people in my life when I got sober except for my mom and now my co-dependent family. It was easy to stop talking to drinking friends. I was no longer interesting to be around since I didn't drink. That was fine by me because it was no longer fun to be around them. It's just so much harder to remove toxic people out of your life when it's your family. I have stopped calling my mom and rarely see her, only when other people are there do I see her. But it's so hard to do that with family.

Yes, none of that sounds like what a vacation should be. The vacation that crossed the line was a trip to Hawaii last Christmas with the whole family. I just wanted to fly back home every day. It was absolutely awful. But no one saw it that way. Because they were either involved with their kids or were drunk.

It's not only my mom's drinking, it's the way she talks to me, the way she behaves. It's all toxic no matter if she is drinking or not. I have filled my life with work, night school, meetings, a boyfriend that I refuse to tell my family about because they will try to bring their negativity into my relationship, and friends. I will try to fill my time with other things I find fun and relaxing but the guilt I feel not being with my family is almost worse then how I feel when I'm around them.

In AA, they teach you to put the other person first because you put yourself and the disease first for so many years. I have that ingrained in my head. In al-anon, they teach you to put yourself first. I have never been that person (except when I was drinking) to put myself first. I have always, always tried to please others. That is very hard to change.

AnvilheadII

I have never been that person (except when I was drinking) to put myself first. I have always, always tried to please others.

have you done much reading or studying about ACOA? because the above is a classic trait. i'm curious, and i'm not going to go all psychology 101 on you but where are you in the birth order?

i think you are doing some good work here, talking this out, looking at the dynamics and how YOU react.

maia1234

Patty, you had some great comments!!! Congratulations on your sobriety. Best thing that you could do for yourself, you must be very proud.

I am sorry for your issues with your family, its not fun loving an A. You need to take a look at the stickies above. They talk about what you can do to make a better you. One of course is setting boundaries. When you say something you have to follow through or why even say it. Your mother laughs at all the people that threaten stuff in her life and don't follow through. Why would she try and get sober if everyone backs down.

I do have to say that my x sister in law told my X father in law many years ago, get sober or you will not be welcome in my home to see your grandchildren. She meant business. He got sober. Not saying this will happen in your life, as he was 60 years old and had done a lot of destruction, but still, it worked.

Can you hit an alanon meeting? They were so helpful to me to get my head on straight. There is a lot of help on this forum. Stick around!!

pattyj

Anvil~ I have not looked into ACOA, but I will. I am technically the middle child. My sister is my twin sister but I was born first and my brother is 9 years older than us.

pattyj

You are right maia! My mom probably laughs at all of us. I wish my brother and sister would mean business when they say she can't see the kids because I feel that that might do the trick. But I should be able to hold my own ultimatum and maybe that will give them the balls to follow through on their own. And why give the ultimatum when I don't follow through on it, it's a waste of words. I do go to al-anon, it definitely gives me the realization that what I am doing is the right thing for me but I still have some guilt.

AnvilheadII

Roles In Dysfunctional Families

From: Roles In Dysfunctional Families-column by codependence counselor

by Robert Burney M.A.

"We have come to understand that both the passive and the aggressive behavioral defense systems are reactions to the same kinds of childhood trauma, to the same kinds of emotional wounds. The Family Systems Dynamics research shows that within the family system, children adopt certain roles according to their family dynamics. Some of these roles are more passive, some are more aggressive, because in the competition for attention and validation within a family system the children must adopt different types of behaviors in order to feel like an individual."

The emotional dynamics of dysfunctional families are basic - and like emotional dynamics for all human beings are pretty predictable. The outside details may look quite different due to a variety of factors, but the dynamics of the human emotional process are the same for all human beings everywhere.

The basic roles which I list below apply to American culture specifically, and Western Civilization generally - but with a few changes in details could be made to fit most any culture.

There are four basic roles that children adopt in order to survive growing up in emotionally dishonest, shame-based, dysfunctional family systems. Some children maintain one role into adulthood while others switch from one role to another as the family dynamic changes (i.e. when the oldest leaves home, etc.) An only child may play all of the roles at one time or another.


"Responsible Child" - "Family Hero"

This is the child who is "9 going on 40." This child takes over the parent role at a very young age, becoming very responsible and self-sufficient. They give the family self-worth because they look good on the outside. They are the good students, the sports stars, the prom queens. The parents look to this child to prove that they are good parents and good people.
As an adult the Family Hero is rigid, controlling, and extremely judgmental (although perhaps very subtle about it) - of others and secretly of themselves. They achieve "success" on the outside and get lots of positive attention but are cut off from their inner emotional life, from their True Self. They are compulsive and driven as adults because deep inside they feel inadequate and insecure.

The family hero, because of their "success" in conforming to dysfunctional cultural definitions of what constitutes doing life "right", is often the child in the family who as an adult has the hardest time even admitting that there is anything within themselves that needs to be healed.

"Acting out child" - "Scapegoat"

This is the child that the family feels ashamed of - and the most emotionally honest child in the family. He/she acts out the tension and anger the family ignores. This child provides distraction from the real issues in the family. The scapegoat usually has trouble in school because they get attention the only way they know how - which is negatively. They often become pregnant or addicted as teenagers.

These children are usually the most sensitive and caring which is why they feel such tremendous hurt. They are romantics who become very cynical and distrustful. They have a lot of self-hatred and can be very self-destructive. This often results in this child becoming the first person in the family to get into some kind of recovery.

"Placater" - "Mascot" - "Caretaker"

This child takes responsibility for the emotional well-being of the family. They become the families 'social director' and/or clown, diverting the family's attention from the pain and anger.

This child becomes an adult who is valued for their kind heart, generosity, and ability to listen to others. Their whole self-definition is centered on others and they don't know how to get their own needs met. They become adults who cannot receive love, only give it. They often have case loads rather than friendships - and get involved in abusive relationships in an attempt to "save" the other person. They go into the helping professions and become nurses, and social workers, and therapists. They have very low self-worth and feel a lot of guilt that they work very hard to overcome by being really "nice" (i.e. people pleasing, classically codependent) people.

"Adjuster" - "Lost Child"

This child escapes by attempting to be invisible. They daydream, fantasize, read a lot of books or watch a lot of TV. They deal with reality by withdrawing from it. They deny that they have any feelings and "don't bother getting upset."
These children grow up to be adults who find themselves unable to feel and suffer very low self-esteem. They are terrified of intimacy and often have relationship phobia. They are very withdrawn and shy and become socially isolated because that is the only way they know to be safe from being hurt. A lot of actors and writers are 'lost children' who have found a way to express emotions while hiding behind their characters.

It is important to note that we adapt the roles that are best suited to our personalities. We are, of course, born with a certain personality. What happens with the roles we adapt in our family dynamic is that we get a twisted, distorted view of who we are as a result of our personality melding with the roles. This is dysfunctional because it causes us to not be able to see ourselves clearly. As long as we are still reacting to our childhood wounding and old tapes then we cannot get in touch clearly with who we really are.

The false self that we develop to survive is never totally false - there is always some Truth in it. For example, people who go into the helping professions do truly care and are not doing what they do simply out of Codependence. Nothing is black and white - everything in life involves various shades of gray.

Recovery is about getting honest with ourselves and finding some balance in our life. Recovery is about seeing ourselves more clearly and honestly so that we can start being True to who we really are instead of to who are parents wanted us to be. (Reacting to the other extreme by rebelling against who they wanted us to be is still living life in reaction to our childhoods. It is still giving power over how we live our life to the past instead of seeing clearly so that we can own our choices today.) The clearer we can see our self the easier it becomes to find some balance in our life - to find some happiness, fulfillment, and serenity.

pattyj

That is truly eyeopening! I see myself in all of those types of children.

I was the prom queen, great student who has only now realized that I need healing as well as others. I got into the college that made my parents look good, even though I eventually managed to get myself kicked out of said college.

I was very self-destructive with drugs, sex, alcohol and eating disorders. I am also the first one to get any kind of help in my family.

I am in the helping profession and never think that I need to take care of myself.

I am also a book reader, which helped me to withdraw from what was going on, especially as a child and have isolated myself from others for much of my life because that way I couldn't get hurt.

I looked into ACOA and I am the classic adult child of an alcoholic. Everything they say about that is true for me.

Recovery is never ending.

Bookaboo2

Pattyj whose says you hve to participate in the family activities while on vacation. You could go and get a room different from where everyone else is staying. That way when you notice things are getting uncomfortable you can retreat to your own room. Also you could hve a different agenda on the activities that you participate in you could even take your niece and nephew with you and make a whole day of it if you choose. Research the place your mom is thinking of going and see if there any places or things your would want to see while there. I hope this information helps as well. I know what it's like to be around folks that are family but you hve to go to the family gatherings.

maia1234

Patty, By you making little changes in your life your siblings will see what you are doing. Those little changes can make a world of difference for you. First off not engaging with your mother when she is drunk or you feel she has been drinking. Get off the phone with her, leave the house or the room if she is engaging with you. Dont give her the opportunity to engage with you. If she drunk every night, tell her that you will only talk to her in the am. You don't ever speak the same language when one someone is drunk. You don't understand her and she doesn't understand you. Little changes, she won't like it but who cares. You will sleep better and that is all that matters.

Hugs my friend, if you stay to learn, your life will change. Not saying the A in your life will change, YOU will change.

pattyj

Gcolema2 - I do like your idea about researching the place. Luckily the places are within driving distance. One is a theme park, the other is a place by the ocean. I will not stay the night but I like the idea of finding something to do with my niece and nephews. Spend a few hours with them and then go home. All I will be missing out on is the nighttime drama when she gets drunk.

Maia - She is drunk every evening so I have gotten used to calling before 3pm. I do engage with her though when she drinks and we're all at their house. It's not much but it's still engaging. I think I just need to leave altogether when she starts drinking. We all know when she does even if we don't see it. I usually make a point to see her before 3pm but sometimes I don't get to leaving by then and I need to make that a priority. Just getting this out there is making me feel better, knowing that detaching is the right thing for me to do is taking some of that guilt away.

maia1234

Patty,
Great, you are seeing when the conflict is and trying to prevent it. This will keep you stronger mentally, as you are not dealing with a drunk. Eventually she will see you staying away. You don't need to tell her why, she will know. A's know they have issues, I am sure people have been telling her for years. Give her the respect to do what she wants to do with the family or with out. but you will not participate in it any longer. Baby steps my friend!!