seek

I keep putting myself in harms way with two recovering alcoholics in my life. I perpetually "forget" that they are unavailable for reciprocal, civil relationships and I keep re-traumatizing myself when I have expectations that they will treat me kindly or even fairly.

I am sure that the abuse I feel related to them goes back to my childhood.

The core issue is trust - I keep trusting people who are untrustworthy or who have different standards of fairness as far as relationship is concerned.

I somehow get into a scapegoat role, as well.

It is all very painful.

One of my core wounds is around not having a healthy family, so I keep trying to create it, albeit with people who can be abusive to me.

I love the people and that seems to trump everything else (not able to protect myself because I feel hopeful).

It's all very confusing and devastating.

I don't think they are capable of loving me. I should not take this personally, but I do. I feel like I am colluding in my own abuse.

Eauchiche

I think the confusion for me lies in the fact that my qualifier was not always like this, but became that way slowly over time. It is almost like someone takes the original personalities away and replaces them with somebody else.

seek

That's a good point. I bonded with these people when things seemed healthier. Once you bond with someone, it is difficult to "unbond" from them - if you still love them, it's very difficult.

MsPINKAcres

for me, once I knew differently - I had the power to act differently.

Each time I felt myself dragged into old behaviors - I would remind myself - "If I want something different, I had to be wiling to do something different."

Just my e, s, & h,
PINK Hugs

Kindeyes

Once I finally recognized and accepted that "he" was not the only one culpable in "my abuse", I was able to do something about it.

Healthy love has boundaries.

My son had absolutely no respect for me because I had no boundaries. I sacrificed for him and expected him to appreciate those sacrifices......and when he didn't.....or worse.....exploited them....I was hurt. That kind of martyrdom (on my part) was a very unattractive character defect.

I was creating the environment for my own abuse and it was up to me to change it.

I did.

I no longer feel abused, victimized, or hurt.

I think you're on to something!

Anaya

What KE states above: "My son had absolutely no respect for me because I had no boundaries." That was what I noticed with my son, too. And the concept of martyrdom - I don't think I truly would have recognized that in myself until over time, after reading and absorbing what others have shared here at SR then deciding to sort through and examine my behavior, I could put a name to what I was doing. Sometimes the truth hurts but I feel better to have faced it.

seek

I reject the 12 Step definition of "character defect" for my unconscious emotional wounds that keep getting triggered. I don't wish to pathologize myself. I understand it works for others and will agree to disagree.

My work is to make my unconscious wounds conscious and then try to heal them. I am working on this.

Kindeyes

Semantics.

GardenMama

Seek, when Kindeyes responded with "semantics" it made me think of this website. The Proactive Twelve Steps (printable) - Proactive Change

I have found the Proactive 12 Steps to be a nice alternative when I am in need of one. See what you think.

seek

"Semantics" is a dismissal.

I found someone on YouTube today that I really like and am getting a lot out of the videos.

Everyone is on their own path.

I am listening to my own inner wisdom and trusting my gut.

I had many realizations over the last few days and am grateful for the growth.

Anaya

seek: I am sorry for your pain and know it is not easy. Hugs to you.

GardenMama: Thanks for sharing the link. I know that I have a hard time with Steps 6 and 7.

schnappi99

I wouldn't call emotional trauma a character defect, but I might call continuing to indulge in martrydom (for example) due to it a defect. Sort of like how the BB discusses "instinctive drives"- they aren't defects but the obsession over satisfying them is likely to be- pushing one into conflict with others etc.

I had a lot of trouble with the drives issue, it took a good deal of study (along with the 4th/5th step work) to distinguish between the drive and the obsessive urge to satisfy it. I really have to stay on top of my spiritual condition to keep the two separate in my head, accepting the former and not falling into the habits of mind I associate with the latter.

seek

Complex PTSD is not a character defect. Dealing with it is not martrydom (and that is pathologizing the trauma).

I have found some resources that are very helpful.

Chino

Not dealing with it, the refusal to deal with it, is martyrdom. Recognizing and understanding it was not ever enough for healing and growth. At least that's what I figured out in hindsight.

FireSprite

I don't think anyone is accusing you of martyring your PTSD symptoms, but rather suggesting that you may be missing the signs of martyrdom in your relationships with the addicts in your life. I was once very, very invested in my martyring & clung to it as part of my self-identity without realizing it was a choice I was making, not something I was required to do. I physically bristled when I first examined the idea - me? martyr? Nice! Now I'm wrong for caring/helping/doing the "right" thing???

I'm talking about that mindset that we "have to" do anything for another person, the arrogance of deciding that *I* know better than they do about what they need & how to make them see & hear it & then how to force them to action..... that habit of putting their needs & mistakes at the front & center, allowing me to subconsciously push my own personal healing to the back burner & focus on fixing them instead. It kept me active & engaged in their drama & I gave it credibility by calling it "love" & "caring". (If it was really an act of love I wouldn't be doing it out of a feeling of obligation... love doesn't mean acting out of guilt or obligation or any kind of emotional debt owed.)

And yes, like you said it your OP - martyring allows you to collude in your own abuse, absolutely. Have you ever looked into Brene Brown's work on vulnerability & shame?

seek

There are definitely different world views being expressed here. I understand the dominant paradigm is 12 step, but that is not my world view.

I feel I have had a mini-breakthrough this week. Lots of realizations about past abuse and how it dovetails with current dynamics.

I have had informative dreams, as well - so I seem to be working on this.

I see where I put myself down (met some new people yesterday and afterwards noticed how many really terrible things I said about myself) - mostly having little tolerance for past mistakes or unconciousness or naivete and even innocence.

My poor inner child must be so sad.

I realize in nurturing others inner children its a Golden Rule wish for myself - that someone would have been as kind to me. I am grieving that a little bit and have to learn to do it myself.

My real-time challenge today is learning how not to be used and abused - there is a part of me (the child) that cannot understand how anyone can be unkind or abusive - and because of my lack of understanding (because I am so young, emotionally, where this issue is concerned - due to the abuse I suffered as a young child) I keep trying to understand and give the user or abuser the benefit of the doubt, over and over again. I see the pattern.

When someone tells you they love you and you have taken care of them and loved them, you want to believe it's true - for both of you - for yourself, because you want to be loved - and for them, because you want them to be happy and healthy. It's difficult to conclude that they may not be capable of loving you and you should not expect them to act in loving ways (it goes against everything I have taught the person and everything I believe in).

One of my core wounds is around "family" - so add that deficit into the mix and it creates another layer of wanting things to be other than they are.

One of my dreams was that someone had completely wiped my front yard clear of everything - the fence was gone - the flowers and trees were gone - there was nothing left but bare dirt - and my house was exposed to the street - very unsafe - and that is how my "little girl" feels - unsafe. Alcoholics are scary - you never know what they are going to do - they can't be trusted - this is the crux of my work (which dovetails with my "little girl" not feeling safe as a child).

Complex PTSD is a set of non-rational/emotional responses - it can't be talked away with logic - I do have many tools in my arsenal (which I won't mention because I have been mocked for mentioning them).

I am writing here because this is a place where I can process.

It would be nice if others, if reading, could simply not judge - or if you do judge, keep your judgments and labels to yourselves - it's not helpful.

To the people who have offered support - thank you! I truly appreciate the kindness!

schnappi99

Theres a couple of us in my alanon group that are interested in dreams as a recovery "barometer". I've noticed a significant change in tone and content over the last year or so, in the recurring themes. Used to be fairly often I'd realize I was stuck on top of something high- could be a mountain or even a floor in a building, stuck and terrified to move for fear of falling; somehow I got there and now couldn't move to get down. Those have become fairly rare now.

The other which is fairly common is I walk into the house's empty basement that I'd forgotten about and see the doors and/or windows open and unlocked & I'm immediately afraid I've been robbed though I've not yet understood that anything had been stolen, so I get determinedly busy at securing the place. In the past the doorjams were broken and forced w/ doors ajar and nothing to fix the latches, now they're more intact, just unlocked. & open. The last few have involved strangers, sometimes outside sometimes in the room but always an intruder. I've moved from being afraid and yelling at them to "GET OUT" to asking them to please move along- though in that last one was I didn't discover anything unlocked and open but I perceived a bunch of strangers having a discussion of some kind in my backyard so I'm on the fence about it being one of the recurring themes.

I think I'd like to get to a place where I leave the doors and windows alone and maybe introduce myself to whomever might be there.

A while back I did a few inner child exercises, not sure I learned a lot about the child as such but it did start cluing me into the importance of self-care, about which I remain amazed by the deep & comprehensive ignorance I've lived with since I was a kid. My relationship habits, intimate and otherwise were often pretty bad. Some no doubt inherited, most I developed myself.

Ann

This was my situation and my feelings about it exactly.

It's not about program or what you choose to call it, it's about living in the hellhole of addiction and needing to take responsibility for ourselves, to get out and find a healthier way to live.

Seek, if you keep finding yourself in unhealthy relationships it may be good to take pause and heal yourself so you can get through wounds of the past and go into the future stronger for the journey. Sick attracts sick, healthy attracts healthy. The healthier and stronger you are, the healthier and stronger your relationships will be, I promise.

Hugs

seek

Yes. That's what I am doing. I feel I am making significant progress.

One of my patterns is to try to educate the person about how they are hurting me - with the theory that if they know, they will stop.

Something happened yesterday and I wanted to advise the person that when they did this, I had this result - I awoke this morning in fear - then I realized I don't have to engage in the game at this point (even if it was to stand up for myself) - some people are not safe to engage with - they don't play or fight fair.

I had promised to do x, y, and z for this person, but now feel taken advantage of and that I want to have a talk to revise the agreement - but I don't feel strong enough to have that talk right now. My "little girl" is too scared and feels unsafe. So I had the revelation that even though the talk is for my own good - I don't have to have it until I am ready to have it. It's a trade off. I gave myself permission to let myself be taken advantage of, monetarily, a little while longer until I can feel strong enough to have the talk I need to have.

So two things: I wanted to go back to the "hardware store for a loaf of bread" (I was going to explain why certain actions were destructive or hurtful) and I was in terror of having a talk right now - today - that I don't need to have until I am ready. I can decide that my peace of mind and feelings of safety are more important than previously promised financial support that I am now regretting. In a way, I can write off the money and chalk it up to learning how to better take care of myself, emotionally.

I also feel like I passed up a manipulation, by not responding to the person when they did something that I felt I should point out was not cool - obviously, they are not dumb and know just how to play me.

Learning a lot.

And I can change my mind at any time.

I have to remember to take care of myself and that this person does not have my best interests at heart, no matter how many times they say "I love you." Love is a verb and is shown in actions, not words.

seek

schnappi99 - that's awesome that you are doing dreamwork.

One of my instructors used to say "Dreams come in the service of health and well-being."

They really help shine a light on stuff.