Unconditional Love
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Unconditional Love
Something that came to mind today when I was playing with our dog (which AGF will take with her, it's really her dog though we have raised her together)...When we got into it a couple weeks ago about the alcohol, she said something like...
The dog loves me unconditionally. She loves me despite my faults. You do not love me unconditionally. You don't support me.
I'm paraphrasing but it made me think...A marriage has "for better or for worse"...Which I suppose is the same sort of concept as "unconditional love"...A love without conditions that withstands any sort of trouble or trauma.
I suppose we can argue we are "detaching with love" or "separating with love" and to a degree that's true -- I still love her or I wouldn't even be here trying to cope with the end of everything, and understand her and how we got to where we are. But in the mind and heart of the A, when we tell them we are no longer tolerating it, are we in their eyes giving up on our promise? Unconditional love? For better or for worse?
Facts are facts, whether or not I'm failing her in her eyes, doesn't change the fact that I need to get off the roller coast of emotions and work it takes, so I need to watch out for myself above all. Nothing changes, just food for thought bopping around in my head today.
The dog loves me unconditionally. She loves me despite my faults. You do not love me unconditionally. You don't support me.
I'm paraphrasing but it made me think...A marriage has "for better or for worse"...Which I suppose is the same sort of concept as "unconditional love"...A love without conditions that withstands any sort of trouble or trauma.
I suppose we can argue we are "detaching with love" or "separating with love" and to a degree that's true -- I still love her or I wouldn't even be here trying to cope with the end of everything, and understand her and how we got to where we are. But in the mind and heart of the A, when we tell them we are no longer tolerating it, are we in their eyes giving up on our promise? Unconditional love? For better or for worse?
Facts are facts, whether or not I'm failing her in her eyes, doesn't change the fact that I need to get off the roller coast of emotions and work it takes, so I need to watch out for myself above all. Nothing changes, just food for thought bopping around in my head today.
I think most alcoholics are prone to seeing themselves as misunderstood, and as victims, so I wouldn't be surprised if she does see it as abandonment. I'm glad you don't feel the need to keep putting up with her behavior for that reason. Staying wouldn't be doing her any favors.
TryGuy......I'm thinking that the first person that you have the responsibility for unconditional love is yourself. There is no other person on earth who h as the responsibility for loving and caring for your welfare as you do.
If onw is willingly engaging in a situation where they are the lesser in importance....that would be wrong....
Of course, you are going to be having these sorts of musings during your mourning period...which has been a bit stalled on the tracks due tho this protracted "inbetween" status.
dandylion
If onw is willingly engaging in a situation where they are the lesser in importance....that would be wrong....
Of course, you are going to be having these sorts of musings during your mourning period...which has been a bit stalled on the tracks due tho this protracted "inbetween" status.
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2014
Location: irvington, ny
Posts: 30
Unconditional love is a misleading concept. I agree that maybe only parents can experience that early on, but even that changes, because we are human and we are perfectly imperfect. The dance of relationships is in the struggle of "me" and my needs (including to "fix" the alcoholic), and the other person who has his/her own needs to attend.
I don't truly love when I interfere with another person's path because it is not what I want or like. I feel my feelings of hurt, fear, anger because they are mine. But when I act on them because I want to change the outcome, (particularly when I rationalize my behaviors)then I stop loving the other person. When I ignore my own feelings, I stop loving myself
I am an alcoholic, and the parent of an alcoholic
I don't truly love when I interfere with another person's path because it is not what I want or like. I feel my feelings of hurt, fear, anger because they are mine. But when I act on them because I want to change the outcome, (particularly when I rationalize my behaviors)then I stop loving the other person. When I ignore my own feelings, I stop loving myself
I am an alcoholic, and the parent of an alcoholic
When I married my ex we made promises, before our friends, minister and God as witness, that we would _both_ give 100% to the marriage. The way I see it, when one partner chooses to no longer give that 100%, then the marriage is over.
My ex chose to get involved with other married men, which I see as completely _not_ 100%. Nowhere in our vows does it say that only _one_ partner gives 100% and the other can get a pass on that responsibility.
Ok, so it took me about a year of al-anon to grasp that concept, I'm a slow learner
As far as "unconditional love", I see love as something that is earned. Only people who have _earned_ the gift of unconditional love should get it. I am speaking of adults, loving a child is an entirely different state of mind. A child is, by definition, not responsible for the consequences of their behaviors. The whole point to raising a child is to teach them, as their brain matures, how to be aware of that responsibility.
My ex, before she became addicted, was a lovely, delightful person. She gave 100% to our marriage and was worthy of love. Had I met her when she was in the depth of her addiction I would never have given her a thought. Women who run around with married men are something I avoid like the plague.
One of the lessons that al-anon has taught me is that I was looking at my marriage the way it _used_ to be. I was evaluating my behavior towards my wife based on the person she _used_ to be. My "character defect" is that I hide from the pain of losing my marriage by going into denial and ignoring the reality of the present. I try to live in the past, before the addiction, in the hopes of controling a future where she would be free of addiction.
The rest of the world has no interest in the past or the future. The world exists in the present and I was completely out of touch with that reality.
Unconditional love towards my ex, and giving 100% to our marriage, was part of my past. My "present" was a marriage to an addict who had stopped being a wife a long time ago. My recovery began when I accepted she was just a roomate with a pill problem and took action to get that chaos out of my life.
Mike
My ex chose to get involved with other married men, which I see as completely _not_ 100%. Nowhere in our vows does it say that only _one_ partner gives 100% and the other can get a pass on that responsibility.
Ok, so it took me about a year of al-anon to grasp that concept, I'm a slow learner
As far as "unconditional love", I see love as something that is earned. Only people who have _earned_ the gift of unconditional love should get it. I am speaking of adults, loving a child is an entirely different state of mind. A child is, by definition, not responsible for the consequences of their behaviors. The whole point to raising a child is to teach them, as their brain matures, how to be aware of that responsibility.
My ex, before she became addicted, was a lovely, delightful person. She gave 100% to our marriage and was worthy of love. Had I met her when she was in the depth of her addiction I would never have given her a thought. Women who run around with married men are something I avoid like the plague.
One of the lessons that al-anon has taught me is that I was looking at my marriage the way it _used_ to be. I was evaluating my behavior towards my wife based on the person she _used_ to be. My "character defect" is that I hide from the pain of losing my marriage by going into denial and ignoring the reality of the present. I try to live in the past, before the addiction, in the hopes of controling a future where she would be free of addiction.
The rest of the world has no interest in the past or the future. The world exists in the present and I was completely out of touch with that reality.
Unconditional love towards my ex, and giving 100% to our marriage, was part of my past. My "present" was a marriage to an addict who had stopped being a wife a long time ago. My recovery began when I accepted she was just a roomate with a pill problem and took action to get that chaos out of my life.
Mike
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
The only way to receive unconditional love is from Jesus (my opinion from my faith). I wrote this to my husband a few years ago and I truly 100% stand behind it. Went something like this: "I believe in the concept of unconditional love for a spouse when it comes to caring for a spouse with an illness, job loss, etc-sonething life just throws at them. Unconditional love is not caring for soneone when that person is making marriage and life wrecking choices by their own behavior. Marriages and "love" like that are usually marred with abuse and no accountability".
We humans are flawed-absolutely. But we either choose to deal with them or not.
Anyway, my two cents.
We humans are flawed-absolutely. But we either choose to deal with them or not.
Anyway, my two cents.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 685
I also do not think humans ever love unconditionally. The closest we get is as parents. Romantic love is full of conditions and that's just the reality of being human.
When a partner is abusive physically, emotionally, verbally, or in any other way - when they lie, manipulate, are uncaring of their partner's needs - well, enough of that will kill love.
When a partner is abusive physically, emotionally, verbally, or in any other way - when they lie, manipulate, are uncaring of their partner's needs - well, enough of that will kill love.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
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Oooo, other people making judgments about how I love, whether it's unconditional, etc...it really chaps my hide.
I love my AH. I am leaving him (15 days, people!). The two are not even remotely related. I am not leaving him because I don't love him. I am not leaving him because my love for him is conditional, or substandard, or anything like that. I am leaving him because I can no longer live with his *behavior*.
In my experience, addicts want to equate "unconditional love" with "put up with all my crappy behavior no matter how awful it is." But that's like comparing apples to oranges.
I love my AH. I am leaving him (15 days, people!). The two are not even remotely related. I am not leaving him because I don't love him. I am not leaving him because my love for him is conditional, or substandard, or anything like that. I am leaving him because I can no longer live with his *behavior*.
In my experience, addicts want to equate "unconditional love" with "put up with all my crappy behavior no matter how awful it is." But that's like comparing apples to oranges.
Sounds like her definition of unconditional love only goes in one direction, and that it only benefits her.
When I was a teen my parents went through a drinking stage which really distressed me and my siblings, yet the couple of times we told them caused them to become hostile and defensive, and when they eased off, it wasn't because of us.
Looking back as an adult I still think it was inappropriate and neglectful. So the 'unconditional love' from a parent didn't apply in this case. I'm pretty sure UL doesn't really exist at all, except from someone who enjoys being a martyr.
When I was a teen my parents went through a drinking stage which really distressed me and my siblings, yet the couple of times we told them caused them to become hostile and defensive, and when they eased off, it wasn't because of us.
Looking back as an adult I still think it was inappropriate and neglectful. So the 'unconditional love' from a parent didn't apply in this case. I'm pretty sure UL doesn't really exist at all, except from someone who enjoys being a martyr.
I recently came across this article about "realistic expectations" in conversations with people in the bi-polar spectrum, and while the article adresses a different illness, I find that a lot what's being described by the author also relates to alcoholism / addiction.
The Bipolar Conversation: A Communication Tip to Change Your Life | bpHope - bp Magazine Community
Very True
But in the mind and heart of the A, when we tell them we are no longer tolerating it, are we in their eyes giving up on our promise? Unconditional love? For better or for worse?
Facts are facts, whether or not I'm failing her in her eyes, doesn't change the fact that I need to get off the roller coast of emotions and work it takes, so I need to watch out for myself above all. Nothing changes, just food for thought bopping around in my head today.
Facts are facts, whether or not I'm failing her in her eyes, doesn't change the fact that I need to get off the roller coast of emotions and work it takes, so I need to watch out for myself above all. Nothing changes, just food for thought bopping around in my head today.
I think my exab gave up a long time ago on really trying to get sober. ...he does the same thing over and over for years, 30-60-90 out
round and round
He thinks people should accept it, no matter how ugly he behaves, he wants to forget about it the minute he's sober again and then when I couldn't be there for one of the bad relapses he turned on me horribly.
It's nonsense and very painful but I turned it over 100 times a day and did what you are doing.
In the end there was some healing for me which I never thought possible, I loved him so much and still do but being with him would be self harm and on some level I know he even knows this.
Stay true to your self and at the same time stay open. Good luck.
kayleezen
"The dog loves me unconditionally. She loves me despite my faults. You do not love me unconditionally. You don't support me".
Might you say this exact same thing? Its not just supporting someone through a tough time, or even dealing with unacceptable behavior for periods of time. It is also about THE OTHER vows.......those that one forgets when they pick and choose one thing to support their argument disregarding the rest.
Unconditional love I think is a term that has been bastardized by those manipulative enough to strike someone deeply, putting you on the defense of your actions rather than the focus on her own. Its tiresome to read (so many times) people who stay in relationships based on those two words. They themselves choose to forget "the other vows" - there are many that describe what we as partners should be doing. I've never been to a marriage ceremony that included "no matter what your spouse does you will stay put to prove you love them". As member m1k3 used to say, a marriage (or relationship) is not a suicide pact. Are you to be expected to continue to accept unacceptable behavior from you Ex until SHE decides SHE wants to do something about it (if ever)? Its a crock. If the tables were turned in many of these situations I wonder how long the partner would stay around through cheating, addiction and all the goodies that come with it.
To compare a Dog to a human being is ridiculous. Fluffy's needs are to be fed, walked, and played with. I don't think Fluffy would be affected by your Ex's cheating, staying out all night, or coming home wasted in the same way that you, a human, and her partner, is.
I think the moral of this is if you would just be happy with being petted and fed things would be perfect, at least that's how I read it. No thanks.
Might you say this exact same thing? Its not just supporting someone through a tough time, or even dealing with unacceptable behavior for periods of time. It is also about THE OTHER vows.......those that one forgets when they pick and choose one thing to support their argument disregarding the rest.
Unconditional love I think is a term that has been bastardized by those manipulative enough to strike someone deeply, putting you on the defense of your actions rather than the focus on her own. Its tiresome to read (so many times) people who stay in relationships based on those two words. They themselves choose to forget "the other vows" - there are many that describe what we as partners should be doing. I've never been to a marriage ceremony that included "no matter what your spouse does you will stay put to prove you love them". As member m1k3 used to say, a marriage (or relationship) is not a suicide pact. Are you to be expected to continue to accept unacceptable behavior from you Ex until SHE decides SHE wants to do something about it (if ever)? Its a crock. If the tables were turned in many of these situations I wonder how long the partner would stay around through cheating, addiction and all the goodies that come with it.
To compare a Dog to a human being is ridiculous. Fluffy's needs are to be fed, walked, and played with. I don't think Fluffy would be affected by your Ex's cheating, staying out all night, or coming home wasted in the same way that you, a human, and her partner, is.
I think the moral of this is if you would just be happy with being petted and fed things would be perfect, at least that's how I read it. No thanks.
Loving someone unconditionally and living with someone unconditionally is not the same thing. I harbor great love for some people that I just cannot have in my life if I am to be healthy. Is that love "unconditional"? I don't know, and I don't think it matters, because she doesn't want your unconditional love, she wants an unconditional living situation.
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