Hi All - Question on Ambien?
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: San Francisco, CA
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Hi All - Question on Ambien?
I am actually going to speak with the on-site psychiatrist at my Outpatient Program this week about this, but was curious about any feedback or experiences others may have had . I know we can't give medical advice, but I believe we can share stories?
Anyway, sleep in my first week or so after stopping drinking was problematic. So my General Practitioner prescribed me Ambien as a sleep aid. It has worked well.
My concern is a situation where I have removed one dependency (alcohol) and created a dependency on another substance (ambien). Can't tell if I'm overthinking this one, or not being concerned enough
Anyway, sleep in my first week or so after stopping drinking was problematic. So my General Practitioner prescribed me Ambien as a sleep aid. It has worked well.
My concern is a situation where I have removed one dependency (alcohol) and created a dependency on another substance (ambien). Can't tell if I'm overthinking this one, or not being concerned enough
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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I guess it depends on whether you feel that it's starting to mirror your behaviour with alcohol.
If it's a concern for you, I'd definitely have a talk with your prescribing physician, Scram.
D
If it's a concern for you, I'd definitely have a talk with your prescribing physician, Scram.
D
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 397
I tried quitting alcohol last year but was taking ambien. I finally dumped it in the toilet, I was overtaking it and it got me high. I would be careful and follow the advice given already.
Unfortunately, insomnia is a part of early withdrawals. I've had it all week..
Unfortunately, insomnia is a part of early withdrawals. I've had it all week..
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 82
My first experience with Ambien was in early sobriety. Unfortunately, I didn't check with other AAers before turning to this 'worldly solution' for alcohol-related insomnia.
(I'd already told my family doc that I was alcoholic and to please not give me Valium anymore, no matter what excuse I might give. Guess he just wasn't aware of the danger of sleeping aids for alkies....or that AA had the better solution for insomnia, for me.)
About the third night or so of taking Ambien, I failed to go to bed after the dose and kept writing in the email AA group. I thought the pill 'wasn't working', so took another one. And still didn't go to bed for some time.
The next day, I didn't *recognize* what I had written during that period. There was evidence that I cooked something, but didn't remember doing it.
Flipped me out. Like 'induced sleep-walking'. Scared me into doing things the AA way. Many things were 'suppressed' in alcohol use - my emotions and thoughts. When emotions/reactions came back in living color, there were evidently a ton of thoughts that were also vying for attention after long neglect.
Not pleasant thoughts, of course. They were the same ones I used to drink to blot out. <s> A couple of things I was told:
No one has yet died from the insomnia of early sobriety - and I wouldn't either. I'd gone to work plenty of times dead-tired and hung over. Just being dead-tired was an improvement!
The most helpful suggestion was to jot down the gist of the thoughts as they came up as I was waiting for sleep. The shame/guilt memories, financial concerns, various life stuff that I'd put off for a long time. "I don't know what to do with you yet, but I will." Acknowledging the problems instead of trying to dodge them made a difference.
I'd known the strong fear of going to bed (without alcohol first) for a very long time. Facing this fear and working through it was a significant first step in coming to trust AA and AAers. I learned I wasn't 'terminally unique' with regard to insomnia ... and the solutions that worked for others, worked for me.
Then I flipped to the other side where I was sleeping sixteen hours a day. When I asked if *that* was normal, too, they said, "Not exactly. The point is to learn to *live* sober." I was unintentionally avoiding picking up tools and using them for the restlessness/fear/cravings. They suggested a schedule - and stick to it. Discipline. What a blessing. Who knew?
Stop TV and do AA reading an hour or so before bed. Go to bed at 9pm and get up at 7am. Before coffee, shower. None of this ten cups of coffee first, reading the paper, etc. - which would turn into a 'robe day'. Prepare for the day ahead and purposefully/mindfully trudge through it. Watch thoughts, note cravings and tools used. That there was a lot to learn in a short time if I wanted to stay sober. AA would only work if I worked it.
Doing the day 'their way' was exhausting. Insomnia gone. I couldn't *wait* to climb into bed at 9pm. And, sixteen years later, I still remember how amazed (akin to awed) I was, when my head hit the pillow, that I'd made it through another day....sober.
All that to say....take care with Ambien. The part where they say not to take it if one can't get a full night's sleep is real, from my experience. I could easily have driven to work in a 'sleep state'.
Hoping you find AA as fascinating as I still do,
PJ
Edit: Sorry, Scram. You didn't say you were going the AA way. All the best to you whichever method you choose!
(I'd already told my family doc that I was alcoholic and to please not give me Valium anymore, no matter what excuse I might give. Guess he just wasn't aware of the danger of sleeping aids for alkies....or that AA had the better solution for insomnia, for me.)
About the third night or so of taking Ambien, I failed to go to bed after the dose and kept writing in the email AA group. I thought the pill 'wasn't working', so took another one. And still didn't go to bed for some time.
The next day, I didn't *recognize* what I had written during that period. There was evidence that I cooked something, but didn't remember doing it.
Flipped me out. Like 'induced sleep-walking'. Scared me into doing things the AA way. Many things were 'suppressed' in alcohol use - my emotions and thoughts. When emotions/reactions came back in living color, there were evidently a ton of thoughts that were also vying for attention after long neglect.
Not pleasant thoughts, of course. They were the same ones I used to drink to blot out. <s> A couple of things I was told:
No one has yet died from the insomnia of early sobriety - and I wouldn't either. I'd gone to work plenty of times dead-tired and hung over. Just being dead-tired was an improvement!
The most helpful suggestion was to jot down the gist of the thoughts as they came up as I was waiting for sleep. The shame/guilt memories, financial concerns, various life stuff that I'd put off for a long time. "I don't know what to do with you yet, but I will." Acknowledging the problems instead of trying to dodge them made a difference.
I'd known the strong fear of going to bed (without alcohol first) for a very long time. Facing this fear and working through it was a significant first step in coming to trust AA and AAers. I learned I wasn't 'terminally unique' with regard to insomnia ... and the solutions that worked for others, worked for me.
Then I flipped to the other side where I was sleeping sixteen hours a day. When I asked if *that* was normal, too, they said, "Not exactly. The point is to learn to *live* sober." I was unintentionally avoiding picking up tools and using them for the restlessness/fear/cravings. They suggested a schedule - and stick to it. Discipline. What a blessing. Who knew?
Stop TV and do AA reading an hour or so before bed. Go to bed at 9pm and get up at 7am. Before coffee, shower. None of this ten cups of coffee first, reading the paper, etc. - which would turn into a 'robe day'. Prepare for the day ahead and purposefully/mindfully trudge through it. Watch thoughts, note cravings and tools used. That there was a lot to learn in a short time if I wanted to stay sober. AA would only work if I worked it.
Doing the day 'their way' was exhausting. Insomnia gone. I couldn't *wait* to climb into bed at 9pm. And, sixteen years later, I still remember how amazed (akin to awed) I was, when my head hit the pillow, that I'd made it through another day....sober.
All that to say....take care with Ambien. The part where they say not to take it if one can't get a full night's sleep is real, from my experience. I could easily have driven to work in a 'sleep state'.
Hoping you find AA as fascinating as I still do,
PJ
Edit: Sorry, Scram. You didn't say you were going the AA way. All the best to you whichever method you choose!
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,286
Zeta, thanks for a great response! You've covered it though I will add a few footnotes. I had severe insomnia due to PTSD. We tried all kinds of different meds until Ambien came on the market. I've been on Ambien for much of the past 20 years.
Scram, if you decide you decide to use it, here are my cautions:
1. If you seem to be staying awake anyway, do not take more and be extremely cautious. For example, twice when I didn't fall asleep I turned on the TV and watched an online shopping channel. It turned out that I had ordered a $300 bracelet and to this day have no memory of doing so. Some people have been known to drive without realizing it - horribly bad idea!
2. Some very current research (not yet validated as far as I know) suggests a possible connection between the "Z" drugs (Ambien is one) and benzos and later Alzheimer's with a direct relation to the number of doses taken. As I understand it, Z-drugs and benzos are cousins.
3. I've been on both for about 20 years so I am at really high risk. Not much I can do about that! There are non-drug techniques for dealing with insomnia. If you are one of those people who sleep late after insomnia, one thing I've heard that really works is to start by regulating the time you get up by an hour at a time.
4. For me, I now try to have a set time to get up no matter what time I go to bed. Some days I'll be a little tired but it does help me.
5. I've been working on not panicking if I don't get enough sleep. That just makes it worse. I don't watch TV right before bed, I listen to relaxing music for about 1/2 hour, get up if I'm not asleep within 1/2 hour.
I still have some trouble but am happy to be mostly off both Ambien and benzos!
Scram, if you decide you decide to use it, here are my cautions:
1. If you seem to be staying awake anyway, do not take more and be extremely cautious. For example, twice when I didn't fall asleep I turned on the TV and watched an online shopping channel. It turned out that I had ordered a $300 bracelet and to this day have no memory of doing so. Some people have been known to drive without realizing it - horribly bad idea!
2. Some very current research (not yet validated as far as I know) suggests a possible connection between the "Z" drugs (Ambien is one) and benzos and later Alzheimer's with a direct relation to the number of doses taken. As I understand it, Z-drugs and benzos are cousins.
3. I've been on both for about 20 years so I am at really high risk. Not much I can do about that! There are non-drug techniques for dealing with insomnia. If you are one of those people who sleep late after insomnia, one thing I've heard that really works is to start by regulating the time you get up by an hour at a time.
4. For me, I now try to have a set time to get up no matter what time I go to bed. Some days I'll be a little tired but it does help me.
5. I've been working on not panicking if I don't get enough sleep. That just makes it worse. I don't watch TV right before bed, I listen to relaxing music for about 1/2 hour, get up if I'm not asleep within 1/2 hour.
I still have some trouble but am happy to be mostly off both Ambien and benzos!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 82
Saskia's response relating a similar 'blackout' with Ambien made me curious. Found this on the first search:
The Disturbing Side Effect Of Ambien, The No. 1 Prescription Sleep Aid
"Bad mojo", methinks.
PJ
The Disturbing Side Effect Of Ambien, The No. 1 Prescription Sleep Aid
"Bad mojo", methinks.
PJ
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by Scram 
my General Practitioner prescribed me Ambien as a sleep aid. It has worked well.
My concern is a situation where I have removed one dependency (alcohol) and created a dependency on another substance (ambien).
You are new to sobriety.
I would share with my doctor that as soon as possible, I would like to be weaned off of all meds. (while under doctor care) Maybe the doctor has a timeline for this ?
MM
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,286
Scram, I think your plan to check with the psychiatrist is a very good one. There are so many meds on the market that not all doc's are up on all of them.
Melatonin doesn't do anything for me.
I avoided the problem of Ambien not working for long by taking a 2-day "holiday" every weekend. That avoided the problem of it not working for long - as I discussed with my doc.
Melatonin doesn't do anything for me.
I avoided the problem of Ambien not working for long by taking a 2-day "holiday" every weekend. That avoided the problem of it not working for long - as I discussed with my doc.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
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Seems like every time a thread comes up about benzos or “Z-drugs” such as Ambien, a kind of “witch-hunt” mentality manifests in which the drugs are universally condemned with a broad brush as being “bad drugs.” Articles such as the one in HuffPost, slanted towards the dramatic in order to attract readers, do nothing to help promote a balanced view.
I submit that drugs such as Ambien and benzos, when used responsibly as intended under the direction of a qualified physician, are “good” drugs. The percentage of responsible users to suffer dramatic side effects (including addiction) is relatively small, and is far outweighed by the vast majority for whom the drugs are helpful.
All drugs have inherent side effects and include risks. If every drug that conceivably had dangerous side effects was banned, there would be no legal drugs — including alcohol, I might add.
I’ve used Ambien for many years to help treat terrible insomnia that pre-dated my alcoholism and remains stubbornly entrenched to this day, 2-1/2 years after my last drink. I don’t use it for any purpose other than help with getting to sleep, and I certainly don’t try to get up and be active after I’ve taken it. I’ve experienced no disturbing side effects and no development of tolerance.
As for the possible long-term effects on memory, well, I guess I’d much rather take the slight and indefinite risk of some unspecified memory loss in the distant future than the real and immediate risks to life and productivity occasioned by trying to function as a sleep-deprived zombie in the present.
I submit that drugs such as Ambien and benzos, when used responsibly as intended under the direction of a qualified physician, are “good” drugs. The percentage of responsible users to suffer dramatic side effects (including addiction) is relatively small, and is far outweighed by the vast majority for whom the drugs are helpful.
All drugs have inherent side effects and include risks. If every drug that conceivably had dangerous side effects was banned, there would be no legal drugs — including alcohol, I might add.
I’ve used Ambien for many years to help treat terrible insomnia that pre-dated my alcoholism and remains stubbornly entrenched to this day, 2-1/2 years after my last drink. I don’t use it for any purpose other than help with getting to sleep, and I certainly don’t try to get up and be active after I’ve taken it. I’ve experienced no disturbing side effects and no development of tolerance.
As for the possible long-term effects on memory, well, I guess I’d much rather take the slight and indefinite risk of some unspecified memory loss in the distant future than the real and immediate risks to life and productivity occasioned by trying to function as a sleep-deprived zombie in the present.
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Andante, I agree with much of what you've said. As far as long-term side effects, the older we are the more immediacy those concerns have. I would not go back and do things differently because of the issues I have but I do prefer to have a clear understanding of the trade-offs before I make a decision, when that's even possible of course.
It took me quite awhile to taper off the benzos when they were no longer needed but it was not difficult in spite of 20 years of regular use (NOT abuse).
It took me quite awhile to taper off the benzos when they were no longer needed but it was not difficult in spite of 20 years of regular use (NOT abuse).
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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I know this isn't supposed to be about medical advice, so I'll just share two things:
1. Last year a co-worker came by my cubicle to talk at lunch. He mentioned that he was taking Ambien, and that he didn't remember coming to work that AM. In fact, he didn't remember attending a meeting that AM either. He quit taking Ambien soon after.
2. When I've taken an OTC sleep aid (Unisom) for insomnia I usually take half a tablet, which is half the recommended dose. A whole tablet is often too much, making it tough to wake up the next morning. Even half works too well for me sometimes, as I have trouble shaking off drowsiness and fog until well after lunch the next day. I've switched to herbal teas.
ymmv. no free lunch etc.
1. Last year a co-worker came by my cubicle to talk at lunch. He mentioned that he was taking Ambien, and that he didn't remember coming to work that AM. In fact, he didn't remember attending a meeting that AM either. He quit taking Ambien soon after.
2. When I've taken an OTC sleep aid (Unisom) for insomnia I usually take half a tablet, which is half the recommended dose. A whole tablet is often too much, making it tough to wake up the next morning. Even half works too well for me sometimes, as I have trouble shaking off drowsiness and fog until well after lunch the next day. I've switched to herbal teas.
ymmv. no free lunch etc.
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