Pebbles2012

I started reading/posting here back in 2013 about my AW. I moved out of our home in Feb due to her crazy moodiness, sneaking drinks and overall feeling of betrayal toward her. I've been rather happy with limited contact with her. A few months ago we emailed each other some pretty raw words stating how we felt and I've expressed my feelings of distrust towards her and how I don't know if I can ever trust her again. I've been in counseling since May of 2013 and have actually made some headway stating how I feel. I've never been good at setting boundaries. Anyway, the wife has been in counseling since our split and says she's doing great. She said she's ready to start fresh yet the entire time she's been tracking me on my cell phone stating that I have to be cheating since her counselor and friends said "that's what men do when they leave". I left the tracking on my phone because I didn't have anything to hide. I agreed, against my counselors advice Btw, to go to counseling with her. I've told my wife numerous times why I left and yet she still can't "remember" why. I recently confronted her about the cell tracker and she said she was looking for why I left. I'm so sick of the blame shifting and self promotion of how she's doing so well. I know this is long but my question is how where you able to tell that your RA was actually recovering and not just living the life of a dry drunk? This upcoming counseling visit with her will be my last till she truly admits why I left. In all of this I don't know what I'm hanging onto... TIA

LexieCat

For me, someone tracking my cell phone would be a deal-killer right there. I wouldn't care whether there is a hope to reconcile or not. That is totally creepy and a huge invasion of your privacy, whether you have anything to hide or not.

Personally, I'd call it quits. She was lying about her drinking, and sneaking drinks, when you were there, and there is no reason to believe any of that has changed. People who are getting better don't put cell trackers on their partners' phones, and they at least begin to recognize the destructiveness of their behavior.

I'm not sure what you're hanging onto, either, except a sense of the familiar. I don't see any indication she's moving in a promising direction. I guess the question is how long you want to stay in limbo?

involved

BI guess you know when their actions show it...when you know and dont have to question. My XA would constantly throw out there that I called the cops on him and he didnt trust me....never acknowledged to me or the people he maligned me to that he was being abusive and refused to exit peacefully. He was dry at the time...he will say its his sh*t and not my fault in one breath but then in the next he would throw that crap around...I have up recently. Because yes it is his sh*t!

Ps...I had ZERO trust and 100% hope in the XA and did have all of his passwords and constantly checked...as have many on this site. It never stopped him from doing what he was going to do...he just got sneakier! It is not a healthy place and showed how sick my soul had become! Set me up for so much crazy making! If I have been shown reason to not trust a person that should be my Q to make my exit!!! Not hang on kicking anf screaming for th to stop hurting me!!! Saving myself...That is my job!

Hawkeye13

Sounds like you are ready to file for separation?

You don't have to move back in if you aren't ready--only you know where you are but from this post, it sounds like she really hasn't "recovered" all that much to me even if she isn't drinking.

By the way, I don't really think you can ever "start fresh" after enduring life with an alcoholic.

You may be able to rebuild on the ruins, but it involves work and honesty on both people's part, and assumes there is still enough positive "emotional content" to build with.

This isn't always the case.
Your recovery is just as important as hers, and it may involve you not getting back together.

That is something to address in your counseling visit, don't you think?
Do get some legal advice and protect yourself in terms of banking / credit
if you haven't already.

You need to be aware of your options whatever you choose to do.

CodeJob

Hello Pebbles,

How much work have you done to assess your individual levels of codependency? When I started getting serious with my own behaviors, I started to realize my RAH was pretty well matched with me. We were both Codie. Both ACOA.

I'm sure you can dis able your phone tracking.

NestWasEmpty

Pebbles , One major thing that jumped out in your post was" She said she's ready to start fresh yet the entire time she's been tracking me on my cell phone stating that I have to be cheating since her counselor and friends said "that's what men do when they leave" This will always be something she will use against you , Even if you didn't . Plus not being truthful of not remembering why you left - That's a BIG denial in itself .
If you ( really ) want to give it a try ( I wouldn't ) it may cost your Sobriety or worse Take it VERY slow , no commitments . Date test the waters - maybe become cold & icy !! Be prepared at all times till it feels Right .
Good Luck I wish you the Best

Refiner

Hi pebbles. First of all, please disable that cell tracking thing. Immediately. Secondly, that's GREAT you are going to have a joint therapist session! If I was you, I'd make a list of the things YOU would like to discuss. There would be mainly only two things on the list, however. #1 Explain the reason(s) in black and white WHY you left - adding that your wife will never ever admit to why and continually tells you she doesn't know why (be she's avoiding HER truth) then see what her reaction is when there is a witness to HER truth. #2 Ask the therapist if he/she really told the wife to put a cell tracker on you "bc if they leave they always cheat". There's no way that happened, btw. But if for some freak reason it did happen, then hear the therapist out on how that is supposed to help the trust factor. Use that therapist session for YOUR benefit. It's as easy as #1 and #2.

SeriousKarma

Your wife not only has a drinking problem, she has a listening problem as well.

We all know that no counselor ever said that to her. She hears what she wants to hear in order to justify her actions.

Going to counseling with her is a fine idea, but if she's unable to truly hear what's being said what good is it going to do?

Pebbles2012

Unfortunately you cant disable the family map in at&t when you arent the acct holder. I confronted her about it and told her that shes had plenty of opportunities to come clean about it and that Ive told her how I dont trust her yet she has been keeping tabs on me. She even went as far to say that she read the specifics on the tracking and it said it wouldnt notify me. Nice and sneaky huh? Well it has to if you read it more thoroughly. Anyway, Ive been confronting her manipulations head on which I never did before and just getting out of that environment at our house was a huge step for me. My plan during the next session is to do what Refiner suggested which is similar to what my counselor said. Its time to call her out on this in front of someone. My counselor told me that if I go back for a 3rd session with my wife and her counselor that we need to have a REAL sit down because Im not getting it. My counselor has been extremely upfront about my need to stay away from my wife. He said he rarely, if ever, suggests couples break up but he said in this case he would be really surprised if things work out.

Thanks so much for all your awesome advice.

ShootingStar1

Get your own cell phone and your own account.

This is a question of your right to live your own life as you choose and you need to, without oversight.

It may be, that, while you've moved out, you are still living with the enmeshed boundaries of mutual co-dependence.

It might be useful to write down what kind of life environment you would like and need to live a whole, happy life. For the moment, drop the idea of what the relationship you and your wife have had; don't use it as a reference point.

Just think through, for yourself, what you need for yourself to feel free and fulfilled. And what would be in a healthy relationship with a women, for you.

Trust would be a big one for me. To live with someone based on mutual trust. And to be respected and honored by your partner. And to be able to make your own choices, do what you need to do, without having your motivation and actions constantly monitored.

Maybe take another look at Melody Beattie's book, CoDependence No More.

You get to choose your own life, choose your own happiness. If you know what that means to you, and put that forward as what you want, your wife will either respect it, or not, and you'll have a way measure whether this marriage is what you want for the future.

ShootingStar1

Kimmieh

My raxbf is doing very well these days - not drinking, holding a job, taking care of himself, etc. He is everything I wanted him to be when we were still together and he wants us to get back together. But I won't because I don't want to live with the constant fear that the drinking and stress start all over again. It gives me anxiety just to think about it. I do trust he can keep this up, but I would much rather watch it as a friend from a distance.

Good luck!

Praying

Here's something interesting- we have kids who it's helpful to be able to find on that cell phone "map"...we had everyone in it as a quick way to check in (are they at soccer, etc) when they couldn't necessarily call or text. However, as soon as my RA relapsed and I found myself wondering where he was all the time even when he quit again, because my trust was shattered... I disabled it. Because it wasn't healthy for us and would promote the wrong behaviors. I caught myself using it to see where he was and didn't like the path it was taking me down.

Now, I've worked recovery--admittedly I stopped focusing on it several months back "because I was free from my A". But back when I left my X who was cheating on me, I didn't do any of that "tracking" or "searching" behavior because I was very serene. People said- how can you not PROVE or try to CATCH him? My answer was...it doesn't matter. If he wants me, he wants me. If he doesn't, it will just hurt to seek proof. I still think that's the healthy approach.

Fast forward to my latest trust shatter in my new relationship. It could have been easy to break into that controlling crazy cycle--because "I had every right to do that after his lies"...not recognizing my own issues in the process.

I guess what I'm saying is that, regardless of what someone is doing, a sane, healthy, recovering person does NOT obsess over tracking and accusing and controlling someone out of fear.

I think you know recovery when you see it and if you have to ask, it's not happening.

maia1234

P- If she was working a program, she would be working on her self not watching you. From the way she is talking, she is no way doing that. So once again, you are trying to work on a marriage that is in no way healthy. I would listen to your counselor, he sees her games and is calling her out on it. Sometimes us enablers are the last ones to see what other people do to us.

Work on yourself, make yourself stronger, and things will fall into place.

HoldOnLoosely

Our situations are somewhat similar (invasion of privacy) except for the devices used to track us (for you - cell phone tracking; for me - keylogger software for a week).

I would be doubtful of her recovery given the cell phone tracking and her inability to remember the reason why you left. Her words (“she’s doing great”) do not match her actions (cell phone tracking). She shouldn’t be tracking you. Instead of looking within herself, her energies are directed towards you and what you might or might not be up to. I would definitely purchase a new cell phone or do whatever it takes to stop the tracking.

I immediately installed antilogger protection on my laptop and googled what I needed to do to have peace of mind going forward. I still need to put it in action. I’ve started to move files off my laptop. I might purchase a new laptop since this one started to act up a few months ago. It’s ridiculous we need to do this, but it is what it is.

In the meantime, I hope the counseling session goes well. You might want to brace yourself though. You most likely will encounter more of the same (blame shifting, minimization, word manipulations and whatever else). I hope you don’t, but it’s highly probable. Be cautious and see what unfolds.

dandylion

Pebbles.....just because someone is in "counseling" doesn't mean that they are dealing with their alcoholism.
I thin a lot of times, people will try to use counseling to dodge the real work that an alcoholism program...like AA is set up to do. They thing that the magic word "counseling" will get everyone off their back...and, it often does...especially th e uninitiated.
Unless the alcoholism is being addressed...really addressed....couples counseling is generally a waste of time. Sometimes, it makes it worse for the partner....

When a person is recovering...you can begin to see it in their attitude and behavior......(they don't have to tell you...lol).

Sounds l ike she has a ways to go...eh?

dandylion

redatlanta

I also second getting a new cell phone on your own plan. That you have allowed the tracking to continue is detrimental to you both - in her eyes I am fairly sure it doesn't prove anything, and you have been walking around knowing someone is viewing your every move. Its ridiculous and damaging you aren't 5 years old. If I EVER found out my RAH was 'tracking" me game over. Not interested in a relationship.

Secondly, perhaps next time you should listen to your counselor. What exactly is your intent in counseling with this woman? I have a guess that because you have allowed the tracking to continue, and because you agreed to counseling you are waiting around for her to tell you "you are right", you want her to acknowledge why you left. I doubt you will ever get that acknowledgement, and do you need it?

You are dealing with signs of either non-recovery, or your AW has issues beyond alcoholism.

"My counselor told me that if I go back for a 3rd session with my wife and her counselor that we need to have a REAL sit down because Im not getting it. My counselor has been extremely upfront about my need to stay away from my wife."

Why are you disregarding the advise of your counselor? I agree its very seldom that a counselor will say what yours has said, usually you only see that when abuse is involved. Please take heed of what your counselor has warned you.

HoldOnLoosely

Good luck with your counseling session this week. Redatlanta made an excellent point. You might want to follow your counselor's advice.

I've been in marriage counseling since mid-March. No one ever suggested what your counselor did. We promised to give it 6 months-1 year. To be honest, the counseling sessions have been difficult at times (blame shifting, minimization, etc.). So, brace yourself and be prepared.

I appreciate you starting this thread. It's obviously been helpful to me, too. I have more thinking to do...

Sungrl

I agree. You are seeing a therapist to benefit and help you .

Disregarding their advice is a waste of everyone's time and your money.

Why even bother to go??

Pebbles2012

Thanks for all the advice everyone. My motivation behind not mentioning the phone tracker was to see if she'd come clean about it and also proving that I wasn't doing anything unfaithful.

I've listened to my counselor about everything except about ending things with my wife. He's asked me what I'm hanging onto and to this day I don't know. I'm making a list of things I'll be talking about tomorrow in the counseling session with my AW. I will be telling her that I'm not going back to the counselor with her anymore.

Can anyone else answer why they hung onto a hopeless relationship? I consulted a priest yesterday(I'm Catholic) and he asked me what would God want for me? I guess that I've always been a person to never give up on certain things. Part of me thinks that since my mom was similar to my wife, depressed, needy, and manipulating that if I give up on my wife I'm doing the same to my mom. The other part of me cares about my wife's well being and the suicide threats in the past were obvious manipulations but the what ifs are always out there. I can't thank everyone enough. I appreciate you all.

Pebbles2012

Part of me does want that acknowledgement but I don't know why. Thank you for your post.