detachment....?
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 11
detachment....?
first of all let me say I took the advice of many of you and downloaded the book "codependent no more"onto my i-pad and have been reading it obsessively and doing all of the journaling activities. It has been helping a lot so thank you!
it occurred to me while I was doing this that last summer, when things were at their worst point with my husband being drunk and on pills and ignoring me except to sometimes start sporadically yelling at me when he was to the blackout point, that I had then tried a form of "detachment." I had reached the point where I was just ready to give up on him, but I didn't want to try to move out, lose our home, lose our pets, lose my gardens, lose everything we had worked so hard to get. So i decided that I would be happier staying in the home and I would just pretend that my husband was a roommate... one that I could have sex with.
And the change was huge. I no longer attempted to control how much he drank/took pills. I didn't care if he was drunk and being crazy in public. I just didn't care any more. For some reason picturing him as a friend, rather than a husband took all the pressure off of me having to be responsible for his consumption of drugs/alcohol and his behavior. I stopped being pissed off and yelling all the time and he stopped getting to angry blackout phases. It all just stopped. But somewhere along the way my behaviors and feelings of having to control the situation came back and things got ridiculous again.
After starting to read this book, Co-dependent no more, I am feeling that I am really quite the pain in the ass... A pain in the ass with the best of intentions, but a pain in the ass none the less. I obsess over fixing things, but to the point where there is always a problem. If I'm not hounding my husband to stop taking pain pills then I'm hounding him to drink less. If I'm not hounding him to drink less then I'm after him to quit smoking. If not smoking, then it's about spending less money. If it's not that, then it's about eating healthier. In my defense I did do all of these things because the situations were concerning... my husband was taking pills and drinking to the blackout/pass out phase and I thought he would die. He was also drinking a ton of redbulls and then having what he thought were mini heart attacks. And he would spend money that was supposed to be for the bills and I would work overtime while he said, "dont worry, it always works out." Yeah it worked out because I worked on my days off!!! But... the point is, that my nagging was not helping anything but making us fight and creating this strange dynamic where I was acting as if I was his mother or something. Luckily our financial situation is fine now so I dont have to work overtime to save our credit. He is making a lot of money and can buy his pills, liquor and redbull and we have plenty left over for bills and then some. so for right now we are okay. in the future... who knows, but im trying not to think like that. I am just taking things one day at a time.
anyway, my point to all of this rambling is that I wonder how intimacy works with detachment? If I am just trying to imagine my husband as a roommate that I can have sex with and am staying out of "his business," then... where is intimacy? I mean, I guess there wasnt any of that anyway with me jumping around screaming at him and trying to "catch him" spending too much on booze and pills and consuming too much....
i don't know... I just thought that having a husband meant having someone that I could tell all of my thoughts and feelings to. Reality is looking more like having someone that I need to try to ignore more. I don't have it figured out.
it occurred to me while I was doing this that last summer, when things were at their worst point with my husband being drunk and on pills and ignoring me except to sometimes start sporadically yelling at me when he was to the blackout point, that I had then tried a form of "detachment." I had reached the point where I was just ready to give up on him, but I didn't want to try to move out, lose our home, lose our pets, lose my gardens, lose everything we had worked so hard to get. So i decided that I would be happier staying in the home and I would just pretend that my husband was a roommate... one that I could have sex with.
And the change was huge. I no longer attempted to control how much he drank/took pills. I didn't care if he was drunk and being crazy in public. I just didn't care any more. For some reason picturing him as a friend, rather than a husband took all the pressure off of me having to be responsible for his consumption of drugs/alcohol and his behavior. I stopped being pissed off and yelling all the time and he stopped getting to angry blackout phases. It all just stopped. But somewhere along the way my behaviors and feelings of having to control the situation came back and things got ridiculous again.
After starting to read this book, Co-dependent no more, I am feeling that I am really quite the pain in the ass... A pain in the ass with the best of intentions, but a pain in the ass none the less. I obsess over fixing things, but to the point where there is always a problem. If I'm not hounding my husband to stop taking pain pills then I'm hounding him to drink less. If I'm not hounding him to drink less then I'm after him to quit smoking. If not smoking, then it's about spending less money. If it's not that, then it's about eating healthier. In my defense I did do all of these things because the situations were concerning... my husband was taking pills and drinking to the blackout/pass out phase and I thought he would die. He was also drinking a ton of redbulls and then having what he thought were mini heart attacks. And he would spend money that was supposed to be for the bills and I would work overtime while he said, "dont worry, it always works out." Yeah it worked out because I worked on my days off!!! But... the point is, that my nagging was not helping anything but making us fight and creating this strange dynamic where I was acting as if I was his mother or something. Luckily our financial situation is fine now so I dont have to work overtime to save our credit. He is making a lot of money and can buy his pills, liquor and redbull and we have plenty left over for bills and then some. so for right now we are okay. in the future... who knows, but im trying not to think like that. I am just taking things one day at a time.
anyway, my point to all of this rambling is that I wonder how intimacy works with detachment? If I am just trying to imagine my husband as a roommate that I can have sex with and am staying out of "his business," then... where is intimacy? I mean, I guess there wasnt any of that anyway with me jumping around screaming at him and trying to "catch him" spending too much on booze and pills and consuming too much....
i don't know... I just thought that having a husband meant having someone that I could tell all of my thoughts and feelings to. Reality is looking more like having someone that I need to try to ignore more. I don't have it figured out.
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
That is a tough situation. For me detaching simply means giving people the dignity and respect to live their lives exactly how they want. But, it does not mean I have to be a witness. This goes for everyone in my life even my sons and husband. This doesn't mean I don't care. Heck I probably still care too much. ( I have many codependent issues.) I just know that people learn best by living their decisions.
A husband should be friend and lover. But, if you are forced to pretend he is merely a roommate I don't see how he can also be a lover or friend.
A husband should be friend and lover. But, if you are forced to pretend he is merely a roommate I don't see how he can also be a lover or friend.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 13,497
One day at a time, Coles, taking care of yourself. You will get it all figured out, in your own time . You have to do what is right for you.
FWIW, you can decide on a path which seems to work, only to find that it leads nowhere satisfying... but its your journey, and no one can tell you what road to take. I find that having fewer expectations can bring peace, but its sad to settle for less than you want and need from a partner/husband.
Keep learning though.. I love the 'codependent no more', and it will help you, as its helped many.
best wishes to you. we understand!
FWIW, you can decide on a path which seems to work, only to find that it leads nowhere satisfying... but its your journey, and no one can tell you what road to take. I find that having fewer expectations can bring peace, but its sad to settle for less than you want and need from a partner/husband.
Keep learning though.. I love the 'codependent no more', and it will help you, as its helped many.
best wishes to you. we understand!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Coles......I think of detachment (as it is applied in a "hotbox" of an alcoholic marriage as you have just described)....as a tool to afford you some time and space from the turmoil and clamor to get in touch with your self. To sort yourself out and get your bearings.
While you have just got to have some damn breathing room....it is not the whole solution. It will not "fix" alcoholism or a messed up marriage.
As you are finding out---it takes a lot more than just detachment.
For me....I found that detachment was the first step to releasing myself from the all consuming fights. And, I began to feel a lot more in control of myself. It gave me some "shelter" from the storm.
*****I must say.....my qualifiers are family members---not romantic partners. I do realize that the two are not exactly the same. There is a different type of "intimacy" involved.
Like, when building a house...you sure do need a hammer...but, you can't build a whole house with JUST a hammer....
I do think that you did identify a "sweet spot".....where you found a space that you can function in , for now. The "roomate" with "benefits" may work for you.....for a while. Maybe even a good while....and your husband may even like that, also.
LOL!.....being the smart girl that you obviously are....you can use this space and time to your own benefit and apply it to your own welfare.
Now...on the intimacy thing....Due to the nature of the alcoholism, you are not ever going to h ave the kind of intimacy that you are talking about...not completely...and not in a nurturing way...the kind that facilitates growth and allows you to thrive and not just struggle to exist.
Even if you felt that you had "it" in a certain point in the relationship---it didn't last, did it? Alcoholism is progressive and the strain that it puts o n a relationship is a giant intimacy buster.
The alcoholism drains the alcoholic of the ability to be fully present---both physically and, especially, emotionally. *****Here is the heart of the matter--the alcoholic is not fully available to HIMSELF--and, therefore cannot be there for anyone else, either.
(He is, surely, unaware of this, himself). He would only come to this realization through the steps of recovery. He will have to work intensively, in his recovery to learn this!! But, that is going to be on his side of the street.....
I am just delighted to see that you are working through the Co-dependency No More book! That book is an eye-opener, for sure.
I would also suggest that you read the articles written by Floyd P Garrett, M.D. They are about the best I have ever read and helped me to understand how the alcoholic mind works.
Do a google search.....go to: bma-wellness.com. ------and, click on "psychiatry and wellness" section.
I especially recommend the articles: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and also, "Excuses Alcoholic Make". There are several more, also.
You sound motivated....and, that is a good thing.....
dandylion
By the way.....how many animals do you have?
While you have just got to have some damn breathing room....it is not the whole solution. It will not "fix" alcoholism or a messed up marriage.
As you are finding out---it takes a lot more than just detachment.
For me....I found that detachment was the first step to releasing myself from the all consuming fights. And, I began to feel a lot more in control of myself. It gave me some "shelter" from the storm.
*****I must say.....my qualifiers are family members---not romantic partners. I do realize that the two are not exactly the same. There is a different type of "intimacy" involved.
Like, when building a house...you sure do need a hammer...but, you can't build a whole house with JUST a hammer....
I do think that you did identify a "sweet spot".....where you found a space that you can function in , for now. The "roomate" with "benefits" may work for you.....for a while. Maybe even a good while....and your husband may even like that, also.
LOL!.....being the smart girl that you obviously are....you can use this space and time to your own benefit and apply it to your own welfare.
Now...on the intimacy thing....Due to the nature of the alcoholism, you are not ever going to h ave the kind of intimacy that you are talking about...not completely...and not in a nurturing way...the kind that facilitates growth and allows you to thrive and not just struggle to exist.
Even if you felt that you had "it" in a certain point in the relationship---it didn't last, did it? Alcoholism is progressive and the strain that it puts o n a relationship is a giant intimacy buster.
The alcoholism drains the alcoholic of the ability to be fully present---both physically and, especially, emotionally. *****Here is the heart of the matter--the alcoholic is not fully available to HIMSELF--and, therefore cannot be there for anyone else, either.
(He is, surely, unaware of this, himself). He would only come to this realization through the steps of recovery. He will have to work intensively, in his recovery to learn this!! But, that is going to be on his side of the street.....
I am just delighted to see that you are working through the Co-dependency No More book! That book is an eye-opener, for sure.
I would also suggest that you read the articles written by Floyd P Garrett, M.D. They are about the best I have ever read and helped me to understand how the alcoholic mind works.
Do a google search.....go to: bma-wellness.com. ------and, click on "psychiatry and wellness" section.
I especially recommend the articles: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and also, "Excuses Alcoholic Make". There are several more, also.
You sound motivated....and, that is a good thing.....
dandylion
By the way.....how many animals do you have?
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
IDK - I think these are conflicting emotions/situations. For me, detachment isn't something sustainable, it's a temporary fix to stop me from going down a Codie Road. (like, future-tripping, passive-aggressive engagement, etc.)
I just posted a thread yesterday with a link to an article about intimacy in recovery. I personally think that true intimacy is nearly impossible with an active alcoholic though, only because they aren't fully present enough to engage in intimacy on the same level while in that part of the cycle. Again, JMHO.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-process.html
I just posted a thread yesterday with a link to an article about intimacy in recovery. I personally think that true intimacy is nearly impossible with an active alcoholic though, only because they aren't fully present enough to engage in intimacy on the same level while in that part of the cycle. Again, JMHO.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-process.html
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by dandylion 
Coles......I think of detachment (as it is applied in a "hotbox" of an alcoholic marriage as you have just described)....as a tool to afford you some time and space from the turmoil and clamor to get in touch with your self. To sort yourself out and get your bearings.
While you have just got to have some damn breathing room....it is not the whole solution. It will not "fix" alcoholism or a messed up marriage.
As you are finding out---it takes a lot more than just detachment.
For me....I found that detachment was the first step to releasing myself from the all consuming fights. And, I began to feel a lot more in control of myself. It gave me some "shelter" from the storm.
*****I must say.....my qualifiers are family members---not romantic partners. I do realize that the two are not exactly the same. There is a different type of "intimacy" involved.
Like, when building a house...you sure do need a hammer...but, you can't build a whole house with JUST a hammer....
I do think that you did identify a "sweet spot".....where you found a space that you can function in , for now. The "roomate" with "benefits" may work for you.....for a while. Maybe even a good while....and your husband may even like that, also.
LOL!.....being the smart girl that you obviously are....you can use this space and time to your own benefit and apply it to your own welfare.
Now...on the intimacy thing....Due to the nature of the alcoholism, you are not ever going to h ave the kind of intimacy that you are talking about...not completely...and not in a nurturing way...the kind that facilitates growth and allows you to thrive and not just struggle to exist.
Even if you felt that you had "it" in a certain point in the relationship---it didn't last, did it? Alcoholism is progressive and the strain that it puts o n a relationship is a giant intimacy buster.
The alcoholism drains the alcoholic of the ability to be fully present---both physically and, especially, emotionally. *****Here is the heart of the matter--the alcoholic is not fully available to HIMSELF--and, therefore cannot be there for anyone else, either.
(He is, surely, unaware of this, himself). He would only come to this realization through the steps of recovery. He will have to work intensively, in his recovery to learn this!! But, that is going to be on his side of the street.....
I am just delighted to see that you are working through the Co-dependency No More book! That book is an eye-opener, for sure.
I would also suggest that you read the articles written by Floyd P Garrett, M.D. They are about the best I have ever read and helped me to understand how the alcoholic mind works.
Do a google search.....go to: bma-wellness.com. ------and, click on "psychiatry and wellness" section.
I especially recommend the articles: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and also, "Excuses Alcoholic Make". There are several more, also.
You sound motivated....and, that is a good thing.....
dandylion
By the way.....how many animals do you have?
While you have just got to have some damn breathing room....it is not the whole solution. It will not "fix" alcoholism or a messed up marriage.
As you are finding out---it takes a lot more than just detachment.
For me....I found that detachment was the first step to releasing myself from the all consuming fights. And, I began to feel a lot more in control of myself. It gave me some "shelter" from the storm.
*****I must say.....my qualifiers are family members---not romantic partners. I do realize that the two are not exactly the same. There is a different type of "intimacy" involved.
Like, when building a house...you sure do need a hammer...but, you can't build a whole house with JUST a hammer....
I do think that you did identify a "sweet spot".....where you found a space that you can function in , for now. The "roomate" with "benefits" may work for you.....for a while. Maybe even a good while....and your husband may even like that, also.
LOL!.....being the smart girl that you obviously are....you can use this space and time to your own benefit and apply it to your own welfare.
Now...on the intimacy thing....Due to the nature of the alcoholism, you are not ever going to h ave the kind of intimacy that you are talking about...not completely...and not in a nurturing way...the kind that facilitates growth and allows you to thrive and not just struggle to exist.
Even if you felt that you had "it" in a certain point in the relationship---it didn't last, did it? Alcoholism is progressive and the strain that it puts o n a relationship is a giant intimacy buster.
The alcoholism drains the alcoholic of the ability to be fully present---both physically and, especially, emotionally. *****Here is the heart of the matter--the alcoholic is not fully available to HIMSELF--and, therefore cannot be there for anyone else, either.
(He is, surely, unaware of this, himself). He would only come to this realization through the steps of recovery. He will have to work intensively, in his recovery to learn this!! But, that is going to be on his side of the street.....
I am just delighted to see that you are working through the Co-dependency No More book! That book is an eye-opener, for sure.
I would also suggest that you read the articles written by Floyd P Garrett, M.D. They are about the best I have ever read and helped me to understand how the alcoholic mind works.
Do a google search.....go to: bma-wellness.com. ------and, click on "psychiatry and wellness" section.
I especially recommend the articles: "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships" and also, "Excuses Alcoholic Make". There are several more, also.
You sound motivated....and, that is a good thing.....
dandylion
By the way.....how many animals do you have?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
I don't see anything wrong with having sex with him, you'll have to figure out how it makes you feel and go from there. IME of friends with benefits it's a great idea that doesn't work out. Inevitably one person develops feelings and the other doesn't and it becomes a hot mess.
But you guys are married.... Ok so let take and example of not a friend with benefit just my little black book dude booty call (way back in the day). So this guy was not only drool worthy physically but he had some God gifted talents. We weren't friends at all. So it was fun and good and then it was like hmmmm what's wrong here? Then to me it just became boring kinda. Without the emotion it's just not as good. Throughout my single years over bout 10 year period we would hook up In between relationships. Same always, hmmmm, this isn't that great even though it is "great".
You will navigate through this. Gonna have to figure out how you feel.
But you guys are married.... Ok so let take and example of not a friend with benefit just my little black book dude booty call (way back in the day). So this guy was not only drool worthy physically but he had some God gifted talents. We weren't friends at all. So it was fun and good and then it was like hmmmm what's wrong here? Then to me it just became boring kinda. Without the emotion it's just not as good. Throughout my single years over bout 10 year period we would hook up In between relationships. Same always, hmmmm, this isn't that great even though it is "great".
You will navigate through this. Gonna have to figure out how you feel.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
Coles-I love where you say that you were a pain in the a$$. That's exactly how I felt when I started my journey of recovery-which I'm def a work in progress. Somewhere along the way I turned into a huge pain in the ass and was acting in ways I would never have thought of before. I would nag at my them husband about everything (bc drinking was out of control). Turned me into someone that was trying to control someone else's behavior-which is someone I never was so I've worked extremely hard at figuring out why I was the way I was and how to get back to normal and not making excuses for my behaviors anymore. It's been a long process but I'm a different person now. You can't change them but you can change you!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i find it goes against my own values to have sex with someone i do not particularly like or respect, someone who i have to ignore most of the time or someone who i can not rely upon or even refer to as my husband. but then again, for me, sex just isn't the be all to end all and i'd rather go without rather than have to play head games with myself just i can "get" some.
for me detachment is like duct tape....it doesn't FIX things long term, it just allows you to hold it together for a bit UNTIL the actual needed repairs can be performed. detachment isn't a lifestyle choice, it's a way to transition to other methods of being and behaving.
intimacy is a SHARED experience. it requires at least TWO active engaged participants. intimacy is NOT sex, altho sex CAN be a very intimate act. (it can also be vulgar, crude and completely devoid of emotion). someone who is high or drunk can not BE intimate....they are in an altered state and no longer centered and self aware. intimacy requires absolute trust, honesty and vulnerability by BOTH parties.
for me detachment is like duct tape....it doesn't FIX things long term, it just allows you to hold it together for a bit UNTIL the actual needed repairs can be performed. detachment isn't a lifestyle choice, it's a way to transition to other methods of being and behaving.
intimacy is a SHARED experience. it requires at least TWO active engaged participants. intimacy is NOT sex, altho sex CAN be a very intimate act. (it can also be vulgar, crude and completely devoid of emotion). someone who is high or drunk can not BE intimate....they are in an altered state and no longer centered and self aware. intimacy requires absolute trust, honesty and vulnerability by BOTH parties.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: West Coast
Posts: 774
If I am just trying to imagine my husband as a roommate that I can have sex with and am staying out of "his business," then... where is intimacy?
It's not hunny... There isn't any. I mean, sure, there might be sex... heck, maybe even some tenderness and good conversation (I was able to get that a lot from my xabf), but true intimacy cannot be accomplished when they are actively drinking. =(
It is totally up to your own sense of "how much you can take" to decide how long you can live like that... but please know that there is no reward for unfulfilled hope... It's all just a choice. I wish the best to you!
It's not hunny... There isn't any. I mean, sure, there might be sex... heck, maybe even some tenderness and good conversation (I was able to get that a lot from my xabf), but true intimacy cannot be accomplished when they are actively drinking. =(
It is totally up to your own sense of "how much you can take" to decide how long you can live like that... but please know that there is no reward for unfulfilled hope... It's all just a choice. I wish the best to you!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
One thing I have begun to realize, is that I was having to hide from my mate. I suspect that he was doing the same thing. What kind of relationship is that? I wouldn't want even a casual friend I have to hide from, much less live with!
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,872
Very true ^^ my ex wants someone that he can drink as much as he wants around abd not judge him or get in the way, regardless. His actions have told me that for years-although I chose to believe his words. I've since learned my lesson.
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