baffled though all this

Old 07-21-2015, 09:33 AM
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baffled though all this

My counselor made a comment awhile ago and it is still sticking with me. She said in a relationship it is 50/50 percent of the blame. Um No -I did not like this comment, still do not. She did back down on that when I explained what I thought.

I was reading a blog of a person married to an alcoholic and she was describing a ride in the car with her AH and kids and how she was not engaging him and was working hard at not letting the situations get bad, and then he made a comment on her having a stick. Tonight | Taking Back Me The comment was way below the belt. I've lived this. I know after awhile you just need to say/do something. This is the point that I'm at fault.

I will take up to 30% of the blame (if that much) but AH has been for 4 years bent on destroying us and has succeeded. (Divorce will be final in 30-60 days) Now he wants to destroy me, financially, so I'm not sure how I can share 50% of the blame for the failure of my marriage.

The second thing is both my counselor and my brother-in-law(old fashion person) both think I should think about dating. Right now there is no way I want to date. I personally want time to figure me out. I've gone through a lot in the last 5 years and would just like less complications in my life.

Just baffling that there don't seem to be the social support out there for spouses other then al anon to help spouses. I did not attend al anon but twice and I don't think it would of helped because I still do not know what to do when AH is cruel. (he enjoys destroying my material stuff - lots of long stories)
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Old 07-21-2015, 09:41 AM
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Cricket, if you contact your local DV shelter and talk with an advocate, they can probably hook you up with a counselor and/or support group for survivors of abuse. Your husband sounds to me like an abuser--whether he can be held criminally responsible or not--and that might be just the kind of support you need to lift you up.
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Old 07-21-2015, 10:38 AM
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I often think of my xabf's ex wife. She had a major freakout and made herself seem utterly crazy. I am absolutely sure that she wasn't taking responsibility for her part through the destruction of their marriage... things like, controlling, judging, anger, etc...

In my mind, 50/50 is correct. I am positive that with your ex A, during the relationship it was probably more like him 10% and you scrambling to do 90%...? but think of it this way... You were giving away 40% of your responsibility to yourself. That 40% was your part that you were missing and could not give as a part of that 50/50, and for us codependents (or those of us that find ourselves in these relationships), taking responsibility for ourselves is exactly the task at hand. Which, btw, is completely different than blame. But because all we can control is ourselves... it is just a matter really of how long it took us to wake up to the fact that nothing was going to change. And for that, we should be forgiving ourselves
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:01 AM
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Cricket,

I do believe in the 50/50, but not for the blame side. I think you need 50/50 to make a marriage work. I do feel that if someone is not giving anything at all to the marriage then the percentage range there drops a lot.

I will second what Lexie said. It does sound like your marriage was abusive. DV counseling is free.

Re: Dating. No, you are not ready. I don't think I am and I am 4 1/2 years divorced. Not saying that it will take you that long.

You know, you can also come here for support, I do. I have found this to be the greatest support ever.

(((((((((hugs))))))))

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Old 07-21-2015, 11:19 AM
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Cricket,

I would like to ask you what kind of counselor did you see. Was this marriage counseling? If it was MC then that is what they do. They want each party to contribute 50% to the marriage. Now if it wasn't, they might have wanted you to see that you didn't need to stay around, and since you did, that part was your fault.

It does take 2 to make a marriage, and sometimes 1 to destroy it. So I can see what you are saying.

Also alanon. There is a thread of this forum somewhere about alanon might not be the best if you are in a DV situation. Alanon says to walk away, I think we both know if you are in a DV situation, that is just impossible to do. I am not saying anything bad about alanon, I am just saying that sometimes we need DV counseling if we are still in the situation so that we can learn how to keep ourselves safe first. Then alanon later on, so that we can keep ourselves out of other situations like this.

We care for you very much here. If you have questions, or need help, or just support, we are here for you.

Take care,
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Old 07-21-2015, 12:04 PM
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Cricket, thank you for sharing the blog. Like others have said: Relationships _should_ be 50/50, or pretty darn close, for responsibility, accountability, input of energy, caring and nurturing for the relationship. However, when there’s addiction or abuse, it gets skewed in a really wonky way.

It’s kind of like having only one fully functioning string in the set on a mini-blind: the blind isn’t going to lift or lower evenly at all, even if the other string in the set works some of the time. Pulling on that one working string harder isn’t going to even anything out. And while that string could move its section of the blinds to reach the point everything is all level, it’s not that string’s fault that the blinds aren’t level at any other point.

Dear Cricket, it’s not your fault your STBXAH didn’t pull his weight in the relationship. It’s not your fault that he’s being a schmuck through the divorce process. I think it’s awesome that you stood up for yourself with your counselor.

And, if you feel like you’re not ready to date, you’re not ready. No one’s opinion on that subject should matter than your own. (Heck, your divorce isn’t even final yet.)

((((hugs))))
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Old 07-21-2015, 12:09 PM
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Cricket-

I struggled with something like this also.

A thing my counselor said that helped was this. It might be 50/50 in the relationship, but it is 100% his "choice" about being in his own addiction and I don't have a say over that. The three Cs teach me that I did not cause his addiction, I cannot control it etc. I however did choose to stay in my relationship with a man who was not willing to look at his addiction, that was 100% my choice.

She also stated that relationship can work when both people are in their addictions, and/or both people are working toward health, but if one is working toward health and the other is in their addiction there is often not a lot of common ground.

My thinking on this has shifted as I have recovered. I was so unclear on what was mine and what was his that it actually pointed out a big part of the problem for me. Being upset and talking about it at Al-Anon or with my therapist helped me to resolve it (my therapist is okay that I get upset/angry with her....part of why I love her).
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:58 AM
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My counselor was our marriage counselor so she knows us both which is what I like. However I find her lacking in first hand knowledge of situations. (I don't think she has ever been married and does not have kids)

I have been committed to making things work with my ah, I've made mistakes that I know. Ah checked out of our marraige 5 years ago and never check back. So for the last 5 years I've done 95 to his 5. So in my opinion he's the one that is responsible for the failure of our marriage.
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Old 07-22-2015, 04:44 AM
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Cricket.....don't get too hung up on the percentages---the numbers that people may proclaim.
I think it is human nature to want to fly the flags of "blame" or "innocence" very high while the war is still going on......for all to see.

Of course, part of recovery--for either party, is to arrive at understanding of one's own responsibilities (to one's self and others) and facing up to those responsibilities.

In the end, after the clamor of the battle is over, what really matters the most is to come to understand one's self and what roles were played by the various players.
This is what is really life changing.

Of course...I do get it...that you are still in the middle of the fight...and he may well be trying to hurt you, etc. I am not making light of that.
Just strive to do the next right thing for your own welfare....and, don't focus on the numbers......and, worry less about what others think.
You know the deal....and, what you think is the only thing that matters in the end.

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Old 07-22-2015, 05:03 AM
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Lol I'm not surprised I'm hung up on numbers. I think in analytical terms. Still working on that but it does help me understand things better
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Old 07-22-2015, 05:14 AM
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I also agree with 50/50. The sober side spouse is usually codie/enabler and that's their 50% contribution. We see many times the A go to recovery and the marriage bomb due to the sober spouse not correcting codependent and enabling habits.

I also like Amy's saying it takes 2 to make a marriage and one to destroy it. I have read through your threads and your husband is/was abusive. Who contributed what to the demise IMO doesn't matter. When the marriage or relationship is abusive there is but one thing to do - exit. The abuse? Well that's ALL on him.

Wishing you peace and happiness in your future its a bright one! Glad you are out of this.
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Old 07-22-2015, 05:18 AM
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Cricket-----I hear you.
This is a little bit off topic....but this triggers a memory for me that is so funny that I just have to tell it.

I come from West Virginia mountains....where families often gather together on the front porches to talk....and, many of the people have a sharp sense of humor.

My relatives were together for a visit on my Aunt's front porch...My husband and I were there as well as several of our cousins. Mary and Earnie (my cousins) have had a lo ng and good marriage, and, survived many challenges over the years.
There was a discussion of someone who was having a problem in their marriage.
My aunt said: I hope they can get through this---marriage is a 50/50 deal.
With that, Earnie jumped out of his chair and exclaimed: "50-50....why in hell didn't somebody tell me that?!!!!!!!! Mary has been telling me it was 80-20, this whole time!"....and marched away into the house...slamming the screen door behind him.

I laughed so hard, I nearly fell out of my chair....and peed my pants!

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Old 07-22-2015, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Cricket-----I hear you.
This is a little bit off topic....but this triggers a memory for me that is so funny that I just have to tell it.

I come from West Virginia mountains....where families often gather together on the front porches to talk....and, many of the people have a sharp sense of humor.

My relatives were together for a visit on my Aunt's front porch...My husband and I were there as well as several of our cousins. Mary and Earnie (my cousins) have had a lo ng and good marriage, and, survived many challenges over the years.
There was a discussion of someone who was having a problem in their marriage.
My aunt said: I hope they can get through this---marriage is a 50/50 deal.
With that, Earnie jumped out of his chair and exclaimed: "50-50....why in hell didn't somebody tell me that?!!!!!!!! Mary has been telling me it was 80-20, this whole time!"....and marched away into the house...slamming the screen door behind him.

I laughed so hard, I nearly fell out of my chair....and peed my pants!

dandylion
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Old 07-22-2015, 08:26 PM
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The whole 50/50 blame thing actually irritates me. That and being automatically designated as "co-dependent." I'm sure some would say that this means I'm not very far into my own recovery-and they may very well be right. But the way I look at it is yes- I am fully responsible for the choices I made to get into a relationship with my XAH. That said, most everyone agrees alcoholism is not something we can control. On top of that it's progressive. Perhaps I should have recognized the signs early on but a normal healthy person is not to going to leave a relationship the first time her partner gets drunk. The progressive nature makes it such that you can be quite a ways into it before you realize how big of a problem you're dealing with. Some significant time spent trying to understand/help our loved one seems reasonable. But when I look back on it now I think I eventually acted in a very independent, strong and healthy manner.

Do I have to take 50% of the blame for our marriage failing? That's a tough one to wrap my head around. I blame alcoholism far more than co-dependency for our divorce. Perhaps being an accountant I focus too much on the numbers which makes it difficult for me to see the reasonableness of 50/50 in this particular situation? Perhaps I'm in denial? I don't know. I attend weekly Alanon meetings, individual therapy, participate here, etc. so I'm open to working on my own issues but I'm not quite willing to surrender that this was half my fault.

Just wanted you to know you aren't the only one frustrated Cricket.
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:07 AM
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We'll said guava I feel like I worked really hard at saving this union giving it my all and getting very little to work with from him.

So I gave 95-98% and he just kept taking. Even now.
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Old 07-23-2015, 03:08 AM
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Guava.......I do hear exactly what you are saying, also. That is exactly why I suggested that Cricket "forget" the literal application of the numbers.

I interpret that popular saying....."Marriage is always 50/50" to ACTUALLY be a way that people struggle to express the concept that a relationship SHOULD be "fair" or "balanced". Soooo, 50-50 (half and half) seems to be a way to express it in numerical form. LOL!---we know that some people just loooove numbers!!

The concept that a relationship is a complex "dance" between two people--each being affected and affecting each other with every movement. LOl---Think Argentine Tango (hot/hot/hot).....is much more to my own thinking.
I believe that "50-50" is just to rigid and simplistic to apply to those complicated dynamics.
I think that asking one's self---"How did I play a role in the relationship?" and "What was it that I could not tolerate or accept in my partner/what ways did my partner harm my growth and ability to thrive?".......I think that this is a much more valuable way to look at one's relationship.

As I said to Cricket----One just HAS to forget what other people think (or say)...in favor on one's own judgement!!! Other people never completely know what went on in a marriage unless they have been living under the bed. And, while some things can become obvious to the general public---like obvious abuse and witnessed actions, etc....... ...there can always be other dynamics that are subtle and very private that are not appreciated by other people.
For various reasons of human nature, I think we have a tendency to want to identify (fly the flags) of who was guilty or who was at fault and who was a victim. This is where I think we can get sucked into a l iving nightmare . Your partner will probably never...never agree with you--at least, not completely. Your in-laws will probably never "take your side"...each neighbor may have a different version of how things went down. the public will probably chew you up---as in current divorce of Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert....everyone seems to have their own version of who caused it to happen.....

Dr. Phil likes to say that marriage should be 100-100%. I know what he means...but, I still think that we should leave the numbers out of it.

Sometimes, people will ask me why my marriage to my children's father failed (I divorced him).....that was a "lifetime" ago, as my children are all adults, now and I was married to a wonderful man before he died of cancer. I simple reply that: "I made the mistake of marrying a narcissistic jerk" and leave it to that. Now, I don't believe that I was responsible for 50% of the demise...but, he will tell you that I was 100% responsible..... See...there is just no way we can ever talk in numerical values and get an accurate concensus....

My main point is this: I think we have to do our own thinking and arrive at our own conclusions----and, not just blindly accept the common things that other people may say....
People love to pontificate (don't we)...but, each of us has to make our own judgements and opinions, in the end....
People will talk a l ot of smack....

dandylion

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