Excellent Article: Intimacy in the Recovery Process
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Excellent Article: Intimacy in the Recovery Process
https://www.atlantapsych.com/article...cy-in-recovery
This was a pretty good article from both sides of recovery - both the addict & the spouse/partner (whether they identify as a Codie or not). I got a lot out of the explanation of how the layers of intimacy change in an active addict - the graph was super helpful because this is something I've tried to illustrate to RAH in the past. (How his "bar friends" & other kinds of shallow contacts never qualified as real friends.)
Their research library has a lot of good pieces, if you're looking for simple straight forward info on some of the topics they cover. (Under the "resource" tab on the top of the page)
This was a pretty good article from both sides of recovery - both the addict & the spouse/partner (whether they identify as a Codie or not). I got a lot out of the explanation of how the layers of intimacy change in an active addict - the graph was super helpful because this is something I've tried to illustrate to RAH in the past. (How his "bar friends" & other kinds of shallow contacts never qualified as real friends.)
Their research library has a lot of good pieces, if you're looking for simple straight forward info on some of the topics they cover. (Under the "resource" tab on the top of the page)
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That. Was. Awesome!
Wow! It is EXACTLY what I needed to read today. My xbf is due home by the end of August from his deployment. While there he got sober and is 60 days today. Assuming he continues this, he will be 90 days+ by the time he gets home. We never truly lost contact or connection; more like being on pause. I have had the chance to talk to him here and there and holy cow, what a difference!
Anyway... I wrote him just last night that when he gets back, I am going to continue to give him his space while he gets comfortable being sober at home. And then I was smacked with my own insecurities of "if he isn't drunk, will he really like me for ME? Is he so different now, or am I so different now, that we are no longer compatible?" (I am working on telling myself that I am totally worth it and it is okay to be authentic and be my true self; that despite all of my faults, I am whole and still lovable. Just read chapter 11 in Codependent No More as well; funny how spiritually things sync up!)
This article sums up exactly how I feel he and I should proceed with intimacy.
Thank you for this!
Wow! It is EXACTLY what I needed to read today. My xbf is due home by the end of August from his deployment. While there he got sober and is 60 days today. Assuming he continues this, he will be 90 days+ by the time he gets home. We never truly lost contact or connection; more like being on pause. I have had the chance to talk to him here and there and holy cow, what a difference!
Anyway... I wrote him just last night that when he gets back, I am going to continue to give him his space while he gets comfortable being sober at home. And then I was smacked with my own insecurities of "if he isn't drunk, will he really like me for ME? Is he so different now, or am I so different now, that we are no longer compatible?" (I am working on telling myself that I am totally worth it and it is okay to be authentic and be my true self; that despite all of my faults, I am whole and still lovable. Just read chapter 11 in Codependent No More as well; funny how spiritually things sync up!)
This article sums up exactly how I feel he and I should proceed with intimacy.
Thank you for this!
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One of the hardest things to understand sometimes is that when an alcoholic gets into recovery we think "My turn".
Now they will take care of my needs
Now I can relax and let them carry the load for a while
Now they will appreciate what they put me through
Bad news. It does not work that way.
I heard a good one in my al-anon meeting the other night that really resonated - an expectation is just a pre-emptive resentment. That is so true.
One key for me has been to learn that it is my job to be the best husband, friend, lover and partner I can be AND WORK EVERY DAY TO BE A BETTER ONE whether she is working on it to my 'satisfaction' or not.
Keeping score is foolish. You'll win on points and lose your mind and your spouse.
It breaks my heart that my wife was so filled with past resentments I did not know about that she almost left me for good. Now that she is home I am trying to avoid old BAD habits like having expectations. The other night is a good example. I wanted to kiss her lovingly and passionately with lots of emotion because that was what I was feeling and she had just come home - she was not in the same place. I got quiet for ten minutes because my wittle feewings got hurt and she asked me if I was upset and I whined a bit... then she felt guilty and upset but unlike the past I just stopped and said WAIT. You are home. You are sleeping in my bed. You are not 'off limits' sexually any longer! I am happy and I am not complaining and forget what I just said about waiting until you can be as passionate as I feel before we resume ...relations, that was temporary insanity.
...and things were OK. I recognized that we were n different places and it was OK. I'm a mess of emotions and energy and my OCD was kicking in HARD and I apologized and said "hey, let me back up and take you up on that offer to uhm... connect". She laughed.
Then hmmmmm... how not to overshare while making this point. What I needed was to take out all that pent up emotion and fear and reclaim my wife and show her my complete love and devotion. What she needed was for me to STFU and stop talking and she needed to clear her mind. Thankfully the bedroom is the one room in our home where strife and miscommunication has never been an issue and it turns out that there's something that can guarantee that I won't talk for about an hour after which time she is going to sleep like a baby feeling completely loved and adored and relaxed.
Point: Instead of worrying about what's off track, work with what's working and intimacy will return.
Have a sense of humor and joke about it, being so serious and intense all the time is exhausting. This is one of my flaws, I am intense like INTENSE and passion is a double edged sword. On the one hand my wife loves the fact that I make her feel like the most desired woman in the world, on the other hand sometimes that is exhausting. OK.. so what? accept the things we cannot change, change the things we can and cut ourselves a break.
...I knew we were headed in the right direction the next morning when I teased her about how it took all of 5 seconds to flip the mood from tension to something better when she tried to say "That's ok honey, you don't have to worry about me, I'm not really in the mood" and wasn't able to get the word "Mood" out.
She playfully smacked me and said something like "You better never change back into the guy I almost had to leave for good because I am not about to spend years training another man ....."
In the span of ten minutes we went from conflict to complete mutual surrender. It was only a question of having the right attitude and being willing to get out of my own way and be thankful for what we had at that moment, not what was missing.
...and thank God it is scientifically proven that a woman can't remain angry with a man who can make her laugh and breathe through his ears for an indefinite period of time.
Pardon the bordering on innapropriate humor. We deal with so much hard **** that I have to laugh it off and I don't filter my thoughts much around you guys ;-) maybe someone will laugh ;-)
Now they will take care of my needs
Now I can relax and let them carry the load for a while
Now they will appreciate what they put me through
Bad news. It does not work that way.
I heard a good one in my al-anon meeting the other night that really resonated - an expectation is just a pre-emptive resentment. That is so true.
One key for me has been to learn that it is my job to be the best husband, friend, lover and partner I can be AND WORK EVERY DAY TO BE A BETTER ONE whether she is working on it to my 'satisfaction' or not.
Keeping score is foolish. You'll win on points and lose your mind and your spouse.
It breaks my heart that my wife was so filled with past resentments I did not know about that she almost left me for good. Now that she is home I am trying to avoid old BAD habits like having expectations. The other night is a good example. I wanted to kiss her lovingly and passionately with lots of emotion because that was what I was feeling and she had just come home - she was not in the same place. I got quiet for ten minutes because my wittle feewings got hurt and she asked me if I was upset and I whined a bit... then she felt guilty and upset but unlike the past I just stopped and said WAIT. You are home. You are sleeping in my bed. You are not 'off limits' sexually any longer! I am happy and I am not complaining and forget what I just said about waiting until you can be as passionate as I feel before we resume ...relations, that was temporary insanity.
...and things were OK. I recognized that we were n different places and it was OK. I'm a mess of emotions and energy and my OCD was kicking in HARD and I apologized and said "hey, let me back up and take you up on that offer to uhm... connect". She laughed.
Then hmmmmm... how not to overshare while making this point. What I needed was to take out all that pent up emotion and fear and reclaim my wife and show her my complete love and devotion. What she needed was for me to STFU and stop talking and she needed to clear her mind. Thankfully the bedroom is the one room in our home where strife and miscommunication has never been an issue and it turns out that there's something that can guarantee that I won't talk for about an hour after which time she is going to sleep like a baby feeling completely loved and adored and relaxed.
Point: Instead of worrying about what's off track, work with what's working and intimacy will return.
Have a sense of humor and joke about it, being so serious and intense all the time is exhausting. This is one of my flaws, I am intense like INTENSE and passion is a double edged sword. On the one hand my wife loves the fact that I make her feel like the most desired woman in the world, on the other hand sometimes that is exhausting. OK.. so what? accept the things we cannot change, change the things we can and cut ourselves a break.
...I knew we were headed in the right direction the next morning when I teased her about how it took all of 5 seconds to flip the mood from tension to something better when she tried to say "That's ok honey, you don't have to worry about me, I'm not really in the mood" and wasn't able to get the word "Mood" out.
She playfully smacked me and said something like "You better never change back into the guy I almost had to leave for good because I am not about to spend years training another man ....."
In the span of ten minutes we went from conflict to complete mutual surrender. It was only a question of having the right attitude and being willing to get out of my own way and be thankful for what we had at that moment, not what was missing.
...and thank God it is scientifically proven that a woman can't remain angry with a man who can make her laugh and breathe through his ears for an indefinite period of time.
Pardon the bordering on innapropriate humor. We deal with so much hard **** that I have to laugh it off and I don't filter my thoughts much around you guys ;-) maybe someone will laugh ;-)
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend 
Point: Instead of worrying about what's off track, work with what's working and intimacy will return.
Intimacy meaning sharing hugely personal segments of yourself with another person, exposing your own vulnerability & building mutual trust by them participating in the relationship just as equally in sharing their inner self back with you. It requires a type of raw honesty with yourself & the other person & there is always risk involved with that kind of exposure.
After decades of being together (22 yrs) & going through both normal growing pains & then addiction & recovery growing pains, a couple often finds that they stand on such very different perspectives of too many things to fix. Hell, too many things to even identify. Work with what's working? Pffft! What solution do you have when NOTHING is working? Or when you don't CARE to figure out what's working? Or when all of the work has been on YOUR side & continuing on in that fashion doesn't make your partner wake up & start actively participating? Change is needed....
We became different people over the course of this saga & then we chose to change when we found the awareness to do so too; the people that we are now, standing here looking at the wreckage are so vastly different from those people that started down this road all those years ago. And we'd been baby-stepping away from each other in terms of intimacy so slowly that neither realized how wide that chasm was getting. Even in an alternate Normie Reality, we'd likely have changed into different people throughout this many years of marriage, for better or worse, evolving or staying stuck as it were.
For years, as the Compromiser, I actively worked at bridging gaps between us - participating in "his" activities, finding new stuff that fell into his version of "acceptable"..... but now in sobriety, and in all the new/refreshed part of myself that I'm embracing, we as a couple need a greater balance in this area. Balance that comes from him seeking out getting to know those parts of me more intimately, embracing new ideas, putting in the work & wanting it for himself, not to placate me. Balance that comes from us learning to communicate better on both sides.
Starting over again with the same person after all of this & starting it fresh, working without resentments, exposing & expecting the same vulnerability & building new trust & respect is the furthest thing from easy. Judging whether this person really gets it, I mean really GETS IT now, without also being Judgmental - yeah, not simple.
I understand why people leave. On both sides I understand why people throw up their hands & say "I don't even know where to begin."
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FS!!! It's okay!!! Are you going through this now? If so, big (((hugs))).... we're human. :-)
One of my favorite quotes about love is this: Love is giving someone the power to destroy you but hoping that they won't.
That's a huge vulnerability! And if both sides do not do it, the relationship will not survive. Some years back when I was in college for becoming a social worker, one of our text books talked about a study for long lasting marriages. It talked about things like having a good sex life or a couple that goes through cancer. And the number one thing that helped couples stay together was that they both "adopted the SAME attitude about whatever it was they were going through"... one partner gains a low libido? If the partner can accept that and also tone down their own libido or find other healthy means of self satisfaction, then it does not become a problem. A partner gets cancer and a treatment plan has to be made.... if both partners can agree and embrace a plan together, not only are the odds of the couples strength to stay together improved, but so are the odds of the inflicted person's remission. Cool huh?
The point and findings of the various studies were that the couple had to continuously make decisions together in order to move forward together. When two people become too independent (not compromising on differences) they grow apart. I even knew a couple that was ready for divorce because the wife decided to become a vegetarian.
The trick to all of it is knowing personal boundaries and being able to make solid, healthy compromises.... and yes, both sides have to be all in. Which is SCARY for those of us who have been through hell :-(
Where do you start? With the small stuff.... "what should we do for dinner?"
At least, that's what I've learned from school.... I do NOT have experience to speak from. Dang... I hope I never do. I hope that everything works out for you too hun, if this is what you are going through....
One of my favorite quotes about love is this: Love is giving someone the power to destroy you but hoping that they won't.
That's a huge vulnerability! And if both sides do not do it, the relationship will not survive. Some years back when I was in college for becoming a social worker, one of our text books talked about a study for long lasting marriages. It talked about things like having a good sex life or a couple that goes through cancer. And the number one thing that helped couples stay together was that they both "adopted the SAME attitude about whatever it was they were going through"... one partner gains a low libido? If the partner can accept that and also tone down their own libido or find other healthy means of self satisfaction, then it does not become a problem. A partner gets cancer and a treatment plan has to be made.... if both partners can agree and embrace a plan together, not only are the odds of the couples strength to stay together improved, but so are the odds of the inflicted person's remission. Cool huh?
The point and findings of the various studies were that the couple had to continuously make decisions together in order to move forward together. When two people become too independent (not compromising on differences) they grow apart. I even knew a couple that was ready for divorce because the wife decided to become a vegetarian.
The trick to all of it is knowing personal boundaries and being able to make solid, healthy compromises.... and yes, both sides have to be all in. Which is SCARY for those of us who have been through hell :-(
Where do you start? With the small stuff.... "what should we do for dinner?"
At least, that's what I've learned from school.... I do NOT have experience to speak from. Dang... I hope I never do. I hope that everything works out for you too hun, if this is what you are going through....
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No crisis LG - I'm far past the beginning stages of all of this.
Recovery isn't equal on both sides though-meaning we work at different paces, have different AHA moments & triggers, etc. I run AT recovery, tackling everything I feel that I can manage. I embrace finding my faults & negative qualities so that I can create positive change internally. I'm out & proud & don't care who knows it. I speak recovery-talk all the time now & have found it sneaking into business & personal conversations in surprising ways. In hindsight, I've been some stage of recovery since about age 15, I just never knew it.
RAH is a much slower turtle. He walks backward sometimes, he CHOOSES the path with the most resistance. He digs into mental ruts & tries like hell to insist that the thing that didn't work 100x's already will work this time until he is forced to accept the ides of a new way. I gather experience & wisdom through others as well as my own experiences, he needs to hold it in his owns hands & experience it personally to grow from it.
So, now, at 4 yrs into this process, and his 2nd stab at recovery (not sure if you remember his white-knuckling period of 2 yrs where he stayed sober but didn't work at real recovery) & dealing with his lifelong mama-drama which culminated recently, he's finally able to start putting some REAL work in on Us. I've been fixing me (lots of ACoA damage), he's been working on him, we've been managing all of the chaos of life, kid, jobs, etc. & doing just a bit more than the basics at keeping our bond alive. We both felt it was important to feel whole & have some sense of internal confidence before we could each bring something of value to the table.
But now, we work on strengthening. And maybe a bit of compromise.
This article was just written as an easy read & it helped me to clarify true intimacy for him without using just MY words.
Recovery isn't equal on both sides though-meaning we work at different paces, have different AHA moments & triggers, etc. I run AT recovery, tackling everything I feel that I can manage. I embrace finding my faults & negative qualities so that I can create positive change internally. I'm out & proud & don't care who knows it. I speak recovery-talk all the time now & have found it sneaking into business & personal conversations in surprising ways. In hindsight, I've been some stage of recovery since about age 15, I just never knew it.
RAH is a much slower turtle. He walks backward sometimes, he CHOOSES the path with the most resistance. He digs into mental ruts & tries like hell to insist that the thing that didn't work 100x's already will work this time until he is forced to accept the ides of a new way. I gather experience & wisdom through others as well as my own experiences, he needs to hold it in his owns hands & experience it personally to grow from it.
So, now, at 4 yrs into this process, and his 2nd stab at recovery (not sure if you remember his white-knuckling period of 2 yrs where he stayed sober but didn't work at real recovery) & dealing with his lifelong mama-drama which culminated recently, he's finally able to start putting some REAL work in on Us. I've been fixing me (lots of ACoA damage), he's been working on him, we've been managing all of the chaos of life, kid, jobs, etc. & doing just a bit more than the basics at keeping our bond alive. We both felt it was important to feel whole & have some sense of internal confidence before we could each bring something of value to the table.
But now, we work on strengthening. And maybe a bit of compromise.
This article was just written as an easy read & it helped me to clarify true intimacy for him without using just MY words.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
I'm out & proud & don't care who knows it.
Ha!!! I love that!!!! I find myself being much more honest about who I am and where I have been in my life these days. What was once shameful for me is becoming a sort of empathetic bonding experience with others around me. I really like your story.
And something weird in me really enjoys and thrives on all the self work as well! ;-)
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Firesprite-
Thanks for this posting. I got a lot from it.
For me as I have been recovering I have found that there is LITTLE I am not willing to share with another person about myself because I am no longer holding onto shame about most of me. It feels wonderful, but for the first time in my life I am realizing that others might not be at a place to receive that information.
In other words this recovery piece is shaking up more than just my intimate relationships, but relastionships at work, acquantances etc.
I am grateful to hear that is not just me.
thanks again.
Thanks for this posting. I got a lot from it.
For me as I have been recovering I have found that there is LITTLE I am not willing to share with another person about myself because I am no longer holding onto shame about most of me. It feels wonderful, but for the first time in my life I am realizing that others might not be at a place to receive that information.
In other words this recovery piece is shaking up more than just my intimate relationships, but relastionships at work, acquantances etc.
I am grateful to hear that is not just me.
thanks again.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
.... but for the first time in my life I am realizing that others might not be at a place to receive that information.
And you're so right when you say that this openness directly relates to dropping the shame & stigma of my life experiences.
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
GREAT point, very true. I've definitely had to learn temperance in sharing my recovery.
And you're so right when you say that this openness directly relates to dropping the shame & stigma of my life experiences.
And you're so right when you say that this openness directly relates to dropping the shame & stigma of my life experiences.
Temperance feels to me like I am somehow restraining myself which is not the case. I did a lot of that for a long time.
I think my bigger challenge has been working on letting go of reactions/responses if people don't "get" what I am working on or trying to say. It has been hard with some of my closest relationships (because we became friends because they were as emotionally unavailable as I was). It feels less hard in other relationships. I am in a big struggle with this with my family at this time. They are not in a place of recovery, but not sharing myself does not feel genuine (or like falling into old behaviors). Thanks, there is always more to think/feel in this.
I have found some people though that do get it and where I am at right now....and that is wonderful. I never could have recieved that gift previously.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
I think my bigger challenge has been working on letting go of reactions/responses if people don't "get" what I am working on or trying to say. It has been hard with some of my closest relationships (because we became friends because they were as emotionally unavailable as I was).
Maybe instead of temperance, think of it as preservation? For me it's like choosing to not share what they won't appreciate rather than restraining myself somehow. It's an action FOR me, not against.
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The article turned me off a little; the nice & neat classification of intimacy seems oversimplistic to me. But it got me to thinking about the issue since its a big thing between the wife and I and has been for a while. It seemed to me the article missed on bringing in the impact of various immaturities, obsessions etc that distort the relationship. She and I have been working our respective programs for a year and half, I won't speak to her situation but for my part the 4th/5th step work focussed on my obsessive pursuit of emotional/physical gratification & the complacent pursuit of instinct made it very clear how I need to change how I'm acting towards her & people in general. So the 4th thru 9th steps really helped with the condition of the "inner" life, and things are a lot more peaceful outside too. It seems a necessary but not sufficient condition for development of emotional & physical intimacy. We both did a lot of emotional mauling of one another and ourselves before during and after the drinking days. Perhaps reconnecting emotionally/physically involves a lot more recovery work like the article suggests- I'm with it there. For my part it seems development of intimacy again means working on the emotional immaturity before any of the "opening up" and "getting vulnerable" is reasonably possible. Bill W wrote an essay on that topic which was really illuminating for me.
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I dunno. The first thing that pops into my mind when someone mentions intimacy is vulnerability and I feel like vulnerability and trust go hand in hand.
The problem with loving an alcoholic - even a recovering alcoholic - is that trust takes TIME, oodles and oodles of time, to rebuild. RAH and I are physically intimate with no problems. But the intimacy that I feel like is being discussed is the kind that you have when you implicitly trust your partner. I think that's a tall order for anyone in a relationship with an addict where the relationship is marred from periods of active drinking.
I wish intimacy was an easy thing to just point at and say "I want that, let's do that!" but, in my opinion, it is something is that is cultivated over a very extended period of time in long term relationships where one partner has engaged in active addiction. RAH and I have been together for 12 years, which feels like a lifetime at 30 years old. I like to think we used to have intimacy, the good kind, but I agree with schnappi that we were probably too immature (then and now) to really have that.
The problem with loving an alcoholic - even a recovering alcoholic - is that trust takes TIME, oodles and oodles of time, to rebuild. RAH and I are physically intimate with no problems. But the intimacy that I feel like is being discussed is the kind that you have when you implicitly trust your partner. I think that's a tall order for anyone in a relationship with an addict where the relationship is marred from periods of active drinking.
I wish intimacy was an easy thing to just point at and say "I want that, let's do that!" but, in my opinion, it is something is that is cultivated over a very extended period of time in long term relationships where one partner has engaged in active addiction. RAH and I have been together for 12 years, which feels like a lifetime at 30 years old. I like to think we used to have intimacy, the good kind, but I agree with schnappi that we were probably too immature (then and now) to really have that.
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Funny how this stuff works. I trust her emotionally, financially etc. She seems to trust me.. no issues with me doing lots of alanon stuff with women though I keep her informed about where im going and what its about. Otoh physical and emotional intimacy is highly limited. We talk more and better than we have in years but clearly there is a long way to go. My emtional dependency stirs up frequently... shows me why I need to keep working & developing my program.
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