Dealing with a client's progressing alcoholism

Old 07-07-2015, 11:36 AM
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Unhappy Dealing with a client's progressing alcoholism

I've been dealing with this particular client for about 12 years or so now. He has never really been shy about his alcoholism with me; I had to draw firm boundaries with him years ago so we've settled into a pretty respectful relationship.

His wife has always lived in another state for as long as they have been clients & while we work together just fine via email & phone, she always asks about his drinking. Has he been driving himself to the office? Can I tell if he's been drinking? etc. They no longer speak directly to one another - EVER. In ANY way. A couple of years ago he fell in his bathroom during a binge & it was days before someone found him & got him medical help. He refuses to consider any kind of assisted living because they won't allow him to drink, but he really NEEDS daily help. He's always bruised from constantly falling, tripping & running into things.

Today I came into the office & found a voicemail from him from around 3am this morning. I could hear the difference in his tone - I knew something had changed. He sounded scared, paranoid & confused (he's usually cocky, witty, confident); rambling on about his hired caregivers & being vulnerable, etc. It didn't make much sense..... when I talked to him later in the morning he was still shaky & scared & repeated over & over again that he knows it's him, he's losing his touch with reality & his mind is liquefying faster than he realized it would. I asked him a LOT of questions to determine what had happened - do you think they are stealing from you? (no) -are they aggressive, are you scared? (no) -have they done anything "wrong" to make you feel this way? (no)

He could see that it's all him - these people were referred highly & there is no problem with their work. He's uncomfortable because they are strangers to him & he's not able to suck them into his manipulation because they're just there to do a job. I told him that he sounded paranoid & that seeing how his message was left around 3am I have to take the educated guess that this is all the result of alcohol. He agreed & said, "I've always known my mind would go Fire, I've always known it. I chose this, I know I did... I just didn't understand! I didn't understand how FAST everything would deteriorate once I started to feel it! I expected it to be more gradual, but every day I feel like I'm losing my grip on reality faster & faster.... once it starts, it just GOES! It's GONE! I HAVE to see a familiar face!" Anxiety rising with every word.

Luckily I'm alone at the office today & I could talk "real" with him - hey man, this isn't going to get any better, you know that right? I/we can't run over there every time you get lost in an alcohol fog.... never mind we're not even here in the office to get the message unless it's during business hours. What are you going to do when the next panic/paranoia attack comes over a holiday weekend?

SO sad. He's out of options & has no desire to change even a little, not that it would be easy now in his late 70's after decades of heavy abuse. I absolutely cannot leave the office empty to run over there today because then he will never stop asking & I know that these "spells" are likely to increase in the coming months, as he feels his "grip" or control sliding away.

I'm sick of dealing with addiction in every area of my life.
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:25 PM
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I'm sorry you've got this to deal with, FS--it IS really so sad. He knows he chose it, and it sounds like he had some illusions about having control, not necessarily of the drinking but of the consequences of it. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and it's got to be terrifying...I can't imagine how awful it must be.

I really fear something like this for my XAH; however, he does not and will never have the money for assisted living/caregivers, so his options will be even more limited.
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Old 07-07-2015, 04:37 PM
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You mentioned having to draw firm boundaries with him in the past... boundaries in regards to what?
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:39 PM
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Sorry, FS--it sucks. It sucks to watch it, and it sucks even more to be living it.

Part of the reason I quit drinking was that was pretty much how I was seeing my future. Maybe not the immediate future, but dang, when you get to be my age, the years keep sliding by faster.
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Old 07-08-2015, 08:18 AM
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Thanks guys; I think I'm surprised at my own reaction. It's not like I didn't know this was coming, we've discussed this at length in the office over the years as he has progressed. I called my boss to keep her up to date even though she was scheduled out of the office. She'll make time to go & visit with him later in the week or over the weekend when it works better in her schedule.

HP - money will become an issue at some point for him as well, he's ok for now but it won't last for long as his expenses/needs keep increasing. He basically joked that he's gambling that he won't live past his money, but now that that is his reality it's not so funny to him any longer.

Originally Posted by bailey17
You mentioned having to draw firm boundaries with him in the past... boundaries in regards to what?
Oh, typical stuff. Acceptable conversation/jokes when he's talking with me (hold the racism, sexism & political BS please). That I/we are not intermediaries between him & his wife outside of business issues that affect them both - otherwise he'd call & ask me to relay message after message to/from her. That if he shows up at this office obviously intoxicated I will take keys, call the cops if he leaves in his car, etc. He has a habit of pushing every little thing - I helped him balance his checkbook once when he was having a difficult time (like I would for any client) & then he suddenly needed it done for him every month. Suddenly he could no longer comprehend the intricacies of a bank reconciliation. The more we do for him, the more he creates needs that go too far outside of our client-firm relationship - finding reasons to call the office all the time, often fabricating drama & exaggerating circumstances to cast himself as a victim. We handle his financial management but he'll call me because his plumber didn't show up.

He did however, call one more time late in the afternoon & asked me to help him find a phone number for his ex-daughter-in-law. He had the address from a birthday card she'd sent him recently & he said he "owed her apologies & should do that right away". This is the first time I have ever heard this side from him - he's always been the, "they can all go to heck & kiss my butt" type. He chose isolation for decades to protect his addiction & now he's lonely & scared, finding himself without a friend in the world including his own children.

"now the chickens are coming home to roost" - yes, exactly.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:48 AM
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Since I posted this last summer, things have obviously progressed. These last couple of weeks have been particularly, um,

This is really just a long rant in a place where people might understand & maybe even 1 person benefits from hearing it.


Now that he's no longer able to drive himself to/from the liquor store, we were tasked with finding a service that would not only run errands such as groceries, healthcare appts, but will stop & buy his liquor on a regular basis.

If he has one more ER visit, they are likely to Baker Act him - which really means that now if he has an incident in the middle of the night, he'll probably opt to wait it out vs. calling an ambulance. He's probably had 4-5 ER runs since I originally posted this, all different but the same in terms of being caused by his drinking.

We (our firm works in conjunction with his hired Guardian - his family refuses involvement) have been unable, obviously, to find any kind of assisted living facility that is equipped for this situation. (They all SAY no problem, every resident is allowed to have alcohol.... until I explain how we are not talking about 1-2 glasses of wine after dinner here.... then they really have no answer at all because they realize they don't have a procedure for this situation.)

Here's the kicker guys - I'M the one that has been having to advocate for him in all of this. BossLady, Guardian, etc., are largely uneducated on the REALITY of addiction. Their immediate reactions were things like simply cutting off his liquor supply (um, I highly advise you NOT to do that without Dr supervision folks, he will likely go into shock/seizures/cardiac events. He has been drinking like this for more years than any of us know.)

*I'm* the one defending his right to drink himself to death. I'm the one reminding ALL of them that it is not OUR places to judge what his wishes are...... he has literally told each of us, face to face, that he CHOOSES this. He has told me that despite the fear, the paranoia, the pain, the knowing that he is doing/has done this to himself - he still does not wish to stop drinking. He still wants to drink himself to death: "I just didn't realize it was going to feel like this, that's all." I remind everyone that hey, THEY knew this the whole time too. He has never stated or indicated anything otherwise. When someone shows you/tells you who they are............. right? Personally, he's been telling me this for over a decade now. His story has never wavered one bit. It is the one constant in all of this, ironically. (or not, depending on your POV)

It gets VERY blurry. I/we are trying hard to keep providing service just as we do for all clients (we customize/go outside the box for everyone in all different ways) & use that as a way to measure whether we're enabling or servicing. It's hard because we sort of live outside of the box in terms of our relationships with our clients. Other than things like refusing to do his liquor runs personally, making ourselves available outside of normal biz hours/etc, we're trying to help but not enable.

It's been like walking a tightrope lately. Above all it simply sucks sucks sucks to watch someone go through this.

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Old 03-25-2016, 07:33 AM
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My heart goes out to you on this one, FS. Talk about a unique situation! There have been articles popping up in Facebook newsfeed lately, based on a February New York Times article that said one in three lawyers are problem drinkers. After practicing law for eleven years, I do not doubt this one little bit. It can be utterly exhausting to work in that kind of environment. I can't even imagine what it must be like to walk the very fine line you are trying to walk.
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Old 03-25-2016, 08:04 AM
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Sending you hugs, FireSprite. I can't imagine how sucky that is. Truly awful but it is his choice. Many prayers for wisdom and peace through all of this, friend. Have a blessed Good Friday!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:45 AM
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How very sad. I am sorry you have to deal with this. Addiction sucks.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:01 PM
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Thanks for posting this Firesprite. Are there any 70+ who get sober? In a way I would think it is almost physically impossible.

I remember an uncle who was an M.D. suggesting that a hospitalized aging alcoholic be but on a vodka IV.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:02 PM
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Thanks for posting this Firesprite. Are there any 70+ who get sober? In a way I would think it is almost physically impossible.

I remember an uncle who was an M.D. suggesting that a hospitalized aging alcoholic be but on a vodka IV.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:36 PM
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^ my father is in his late 70's and would most likely have to be put on a wine iv to live if he were to go to the hospital. :/ I know it's possible to get sober at any time, but the damage is done at some point....too much damage.
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Old 03-25-2016, 06:48 PM
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My Uncle decided to drink himself to death. Warned, hospitals, doctors - it made no difference. He was a quiet drunk that kept to himself, and didn't cause my aunt any problems besides having to watch it.

It was an unpleasant and horrible death. His last words when she found him unable to move on the basement floor were "its too late". It makes me wonder how many days he said "tomorrow I'll stop", or if he was just letting her know he knew it was over.

I think there is regret. Its ok until its not, and yes I think they get very frightened when their body starts going haywire. I think perhaps at that time they wish they had quit, but feel the damage has been done - just another reason to keep on.. These late stage alcoholics spend their lives numbing themselves, but they can't numb the death. Its painful, horrible and scary.

I think you are handling it perfectly.
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Old 03-25-2016, 07:24 PM
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^ I agree. Fire-I admire your strength and courage and honesty through all of this. Many more hugs to you. And prayers to those affected that they Learn about addiction.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:33 AM
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Back to vent - don't mind me......

Originally Posted by Bekindalways
Thanks for posting this Firesprite. Are there any 70+ who get sober? In a way I would think it is almost physically impossible.

I remember an uncle who was an M.D. suggesting that a hospitalized aging alcoholic be but on a vodka IV.

I have no idea. I have to believe in the possibility, but I'm certainly not running across all kinds of hopeful stories. The conditions for recovery remain the same regardless of age - the person has to WANT it. After decades of drinking, the denial & resistance I'm seeing are more intense than ever.

The last few weeks have been a nightmare of ups & downs. Well, more like downs & then some quiet days thrown in which we misinterpret as "up" if we're not careful.

After a week of debates & discussions he ended up drinking himself into a semi-coma & ending up in the hospital. Between you all & me, I believe he tried to starve/dehydrate himself into dying faster & instead landed himself in the hospital for a few days. I've had to have very, very frank conversations with his advisers & went so far as to print & explain copies of the addiction spiral for them so they could see the bigger picture of all of this better. I gave them my 2 cents which was - stop focusing on trying to get him dry & start focusing on how to make/stretch his remaining money to work best for his life situation ....because he still refuses to consider quitting. What transpired is the same story you all know:

He was saying all kinds of conflicting things to each person.
Anyone with any kind of enabling tendency rallies around his poor, forgotten soul & starts throwing all of their energy into his care. (in his case, 1 neighbor & his part-time caretaker were completely under the spell, neither have any prior experience with addiction)
They believe they are being compassionate & that the rest of us are just letting this man rot away without concern.
He's making calls to estranged family & shaking that tree but not really looking for anything except someone else to suck into the drama.

They also believe that his HEALTH is the primary problem & do not want to believe me at first when I point out that No, it's just the squeaky wheel...... neighbor lady had me on the phone demanding to know at what point someone was just going to call hospice & was pretty shocked to hear that we are SO far from that point just yet. That this is just his body giving out in a lot of ongoing, smaller ways due to his drinking. He has NO diagnosis of any one specific ailment because everything wrong with him traces back to alcohol.... these are not independent issues. And what she wasn't seeing was him running behind his caregiver's back & cancelling medical appts as fast as she was making them - he refuses medical treatment until he has a crisis.

I've gotten permission from Boss to be a bit more forward with the complaints - so instead of biting my tongue I can point out that while he told you this, are you aware that he told so&so that? Or that he called me himself later that same day & said something altogether different? When I told you to make him sign a receipt that he gave you permission to drive his car, you thought I was kidding until he claimed to have no memory of such a thing & was angry that it had happened. Yes, you have to do this Every. Time. It. Comes. Up. It's still sensitive - they can call & demand & lambast me but I still have a responsibility to his privacy & often have to hold my tongue until the "right" moment finally arrives. (like, he says it first, lol)

They start to see the lies, the manipulations, the poor-me-poor-me-pour-me-another-drink dynamic & start listening about setting boundaries & covering themselves for liability.

He was hospitalized for close to a week & was pretty much in a blackout/detox state for the first 3 days or so. He was agreeable & in pain & contrite (of course) and it fooled everyone into thinking, Yep, that's it! He's GOT IT NOW. Bosslady was so smug about getting Control of the situation & issuing all her ultimatums. She was determined to make. him. see. I mean, how could he not? Look at the condition he's in! No way someone can NOT see this!

I warned them that this moment would pass as soon as he sobered up. They really, really believed that they had convinced him to go to rehab following the hospital & thought I was nuts because he'd not officially had a drink in a couple of days. I held firm- this is NOT sobriety, this is simply a "moment" when the physical pain outweighs the emotional temporarily. As soon as it recedes, I said, he'll recant everything & none of you can do anything about it because he IS of sound mind, capable of acting on his own behalf.

And he did. Of course. You all knew that.

Red said it very well:

Originally Posted by redatlanta
I think there is regret. Its ok until its not, and yes I think they get very frightened when their body starts going haywire. I think perhaps at that time they wish they had quit, but feel the damage has been done - just another reason to keep on.. These late stage alcoholics spend their lives numbing themselves, but they can't numb the death. Its painful, horrible and scary.
I think he's back & forth & that these moments of regret come & go depending on his level of intoxication. He had some romantic image in his head of him drinking himself to sleep & just not waking up. Reality is that dying via alcohol is a long, slow, agonizing, paranoid & scary way to die.

In fact, he didn't even make it through the admissions process of the rehab facility. Mind you - this is PHYSICAL rehab guys, not addiction/detox.... he excused himself, found a phone & called a cab to pick him up after about 2-3 hours. Gets into a terrible argument with his Guardian/POA.

Hmmmmm..... I say, isn't that about when the final dose of "whatever" they were giving him at the hospital would have worn off? Ugh, they didn't think of that. Everyone scrambles to follow behind his destructive lead to the extent that we have to, setting up home visits, etc. Boss is shocked & dismayed to find him among empty wine bottles the next afternoon. More shocked to realize he has NO memory of their meetings while he was in the hospital even though he'd not had alcohol for a couple of days by that point.

Does no one listen?

At least she took my advice & asked our attorney to draw up a letter for him to sign, releasing us of liability due to his refusal to follow the advice he's paying us for. He'll sign it this week for us, the Guardian, the home health agency. This way none of his estranged relatives can come back & accuse us of, well, anything really.

Yesterday he called us to badmouth his Guardian & I told him that I disagree completely & it infuriated him so he hung up on me. Whatevs. I'm not validating his poor opinion just to make him feel better, he knows better than to call me if he's just needing a Yes Man.

It has also led to some interesting convo's with RAH, but all in all, I am SO happy to have a well-established recovery on my side to make this easier to deal with. I could have never guessed I would be putting my recovery to work so hard AT work!
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:51 AM
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Much love to you, FS. I can't imagine how hard it must be trying to be the voice of reason and rationality in all of this.

My mother was not an A, but she was cripplingly co-dependent and that behavior demonstrated itself in many ways. She used food as her coping mechanism, and was extremely morbidly obese most of my life. She was unable to work the last 12 years of her life. She was largely housebound the last 3 years of her life. She was largely bedridden for the last year of her life. She had diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, severe depression, etc. etc. etc. We all tried to talk to her, multiple times, about possibly having weight loss surgery. For YEARS she insisted that WLS was not indicated for people with diabetes (which we all knew was horse crap because diabetes is a QUALIFIER for WLS, but she was no different from an A in this respect. She had convinced herself of certain things that allowed her to remain in her comfortable rut of food addiction and co-dependency).

Finally, in her last year (when frankly, it was likely too late), she suddenly latched onto the idea of WLS. Their insurance company declined to pay for it, and she refused to file any sort of appeal or protest. And in that moment, it became obvious that for a brief time, she was in the midst of that moment that you talk about--when the physical pain outweighs the emotional temporarily. But it took very little to derail that "commitment" to survival.

When my mother died in 2012, she was 5' 4" and weighed nearly 500 pounds. Although her health had been incredibly poor for years, it was a MRSA infection, which came on suddenly and quickly, that killed her. She delayed getting medical care, because she was mortified by the numerous times over the past few years when a team of six or more EMTs would have to come to the house to carry her out, because she was so heavy and virtually unable to walk.

I share that story because I think that this dysfunctional thinking appears all. the. time. in our culture. Sometimes it's on a smaller scale, and isn't as wholly disruptive to life in general as addiction is. But recovery has made it so much easier for me to deal with this kind of dysfunction, in all its manifestations, because it is truly everywhere. I'm eternally grateful that recovery helped propel me out of an abusive marriage. But I'm also very grateful that recovery just helps the way I engage with the world on a daily basis.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:55 AM
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Ugh. Many hugs FS. You have the patience of a saint to deal with all you do and have.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:00 PM
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Addiction IS nuts. Something you said stood out to me-the whole circling if enablers thinking they are being compassionate while others are viewed as letting this man rot away with no concern. Yep-been there done that with my exs family.

You are a phenomenal person FS and are doing the right thing..,..maybe someday the others will wake up.

Sorry you are dealing with this but it sounds like you're handling it like a champ!
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:21 PM
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Dang - that is a lot to deal with! (((FS))) Yep - great job doing the right things.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:27 PM
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That must have been so painful to go through, Wisconsin. You are completely right - this type of dysfunction IS everywhere in a LOT of insidious ways.

Sometimes - and this may not be a popular opinion, but stay with me here - SOMETIMES I think it would be great if everyone could just see their labels more clearly & embrace them as a map toward change instead of a word that makes them "less-than" because of how they define it.

People balk at the word alcoholic but to me it is just the first step toward fixing stuff when you start calling things by the right label. Numbing with alcohol, food, gambling, work, codependency - it's all the same in the end because it means we're numbing our emotions.

I am reading The Joy Book & he talks about emotions being E-motions - that they are energy in motion & it's when they become stuck that we start to experience these breakdowns & addictions as a result. That makes sense for me - when I feel anger & I work through it (action/energy), I am able to release it. When I stop allowing it to have motion & work it's way out, it becomes stuck & negative results occur instead. It's a fascinatingly simple book.

Originally Posted by Forourgirls
......maybe someday the others will wake up
I think they are, slowly. I heard neighbor lady have her AHA moment - she actually took the time to come to the office & talk respectfully with me F2F. She said, "Do you mean to tell me that this can go on for YEARS like this? I was under the impression that he was dying....like tomorrow!" Her expression was half horrified/half anger at being duped like that.

She had almost cancelled a much-anticipated vacation just to make sure he had "someone" around. Pffffft! Not on MY watch, Lady! I relieved her of copies of his house keys, etc & sent her home to pack!

whole circling if enablers thinking they are being compassionate while others are viewed as letting this man rot away with no concern
Yep - at one point I got kind of nasty with his caregiver when her attitude was getting really crappy with me. I said, "then you tell ME. Where are all these people he's had in his life? Where are his siblings, children, exes & hello? how about his CURRENT wife? Do you REALLY think allllllllll of those people are without compassion or do you think he Burned Those Bridges To The Ground over many years & now has to PAY people to care for him?" Drop mic. Dead silence.
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