Am I just a coldhearted person?
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Am I just a coldhearted person?
I have asked for some guidance from friends and they have turned me to this website as well as the book, Codependent No More. I will be looking to go to some Alanon (?) meetings or set up an individual meeting with a counselor. But for some immediate feedback I figure here is a good place to start.
My sister and her husband overdosed last week. Not sure that it matters, and IDK their drug(s) of choice. He didn't make it. She was given narcan which helped her to survive. She is in the hospital on 24 hour suicide watch as she recovers from the overdose.
Their drug abuse is nothing new. I am not sure if I even know who they are without drugs. Their 6 y/o son is being raised by my parents. They have been living in our area between hotels or however they choose to live. Essentially I haven't had anything to do with them for years. I have my own family and I can't get wrapped up in their drama. I have a home, job, husband, children, car, etc....life. This is a life that I chose to live without them in it.
My parents take numerous phone calls from them, drive them from place to place, and I am sure support them in many other ways. At times, they seem to know there is a problem and can understand that me and my other siblings will not tolerate dealing with them. Last Christmas, I don't know when my parents celebrated with them but it was in a different setting that with their other three children's families.
I think my issue is more of how to deal with my parents. I had long ago decided they were not interested in the realization that they are the enablers. Quite frankly they are in denial. Still. On some level. I don't tell my parents how to handle them, they are going to do what they want.
However, after she OD'd and 'came to' in the hospital, my dad felt that my brother and sister should call her to say we were sorry for her husband's death. Without even consulting one another we had all made up our minds for distance. It is true it is sad that there had been a death, but I am not sure how sad I really am about it. If this is what makes me cold hearted, so be it. I just feel numb. I feel as though I jumped off that roller coaster long ago and really just don't want much to do with it.
So, my dad has called me many names, self righteous b*, says I think I am better than her, and the list goes on.
I can go into better detail on any area.
My sister and her husband overdosed last week. Not sure that it matters, and IDK their drug(s) of choice. He didn't make it. She was given narcan which helped her to survive. She is in the hospital on 24 hour suicide watch as she recovers from the overdose.
Their drug abuse is nothing new. I am not sure if I even know who they are without drugs. Their 6 y/o son is being raised by my parents. They have been living in our area between hotels or however they choose to live. Essentially I haven't had anything to do with them for years. I have my own family and I can't get wrapped up in their drama. I have a home, job, husband, children, car, etc....life. This is a life that I chose to live without them in it.
My parents take numerous phone calls from them, drive them from place to place, and I am sure support them in many other ways. At times, they seem to know there is a problem and can understand that me and my other siblings will not tolerate dealing with them. Last Christmas, I don't know when my parents celebrated with them but it was in a different setting that with their other three children's families.
I think my issue is more of how to deal with my parents. I had long ago decided they were not interested in the realization that they are the enablers. Quite frankly they are in denial. Still. On some level. I don't tell my parents how to handle them, they are going to do what they want.
However, after she OD'd and 'came to' in the hospital, my dad felt that my brother and sister should call her to say we were sorry for her husband's death. Without even consulting one another we had all made up our minds for distance. It is true it is sad that there had been a death, but I am not sure how sad I really am about it. If this is what makes me cold hearted, so be it. I just feel numb. I feel as though I jumped off that roller coaster long ago and really just don't want much to do with it.
So, my dad has called me many names, self righteous b*, says I think I am better than her, and the list goes on.
I can go into better detail on any area.
Last edited by greeteachday; 06-16-2015 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Contents of personal emails violates privacy rules
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Welcome to SR, Need2no,
You have the right to stay out of it.
Your parents are in a tough position as they are raising their grandson. I think it is very difficult to not be enmeshed when you are trying to keep addict parents at least in communication with their child.
Personally I tend to focus on the kids. Who is involved in helping your parents raise this nephew? Can you help him experience a 'normal' family? Do you take him on vacation? Do you go to his sporting events? Do you support this kid?
When addiction destroys a family, who tries to help the innocent and stop the cycle?
You don't have to answer any of this, these are just things I think of when I hear there's a 6 year old who just lost his father due to an overdose and his mother is an addict too.
You have the right to stay out of it.
Your parents are in a tough position as they are raising their grandson. I think it is very difficult to not be enmeshed when you are trying to keep addict parents at least in communication with their child.
Personally I tend to focus on the kids. Who is involved in helping your parents raise this nephew? Can you help him experience a 'normal' family? Do you take him on vacation? Do you go to his sporting events? Do you support this kid?
When addiction destroys a family, who tries to help the innocent and stop the cycle?
You don't have to answer any of this, these are just things I think of when I hear there's a 6 year old who just lost his father due to an overdose and his mother is an addict too.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
This is a tough situation, but remember, codependents such as your parents have many of the same traits as addicts. They (we) project, deflect, and do anything they can to avoid taking responsibility for their own roles in the situation.
I think you're doing the right thing by maintaining distance. You can't control your parents and their need to enable any more than you can control your sister and her need for heroin. But you have yourself and your family to protect. You and your own family come first -- not the needs of your adult sister or your parents.
Good luck.
I think you're doing the right thing by maintaining distance. You can't control your parents and their need to enable any more than you can control your sister and her need for heroin. But you have yourself and your family to protect. You and your own family come first -- not the needs of your adult sister or your parents.
Good luck.
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Location: Iowa
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I agree with CJ about supporting your nephew. He is the real victim here.
Reading between the epic guilt trip and the Joan of Arc level martyrdom in your father's email, it sounds like he wants you to come together as a family and basically nag her into rehab.
She obviously needs help. If her addiction is severe enough to have lost custody of her child, then she probably has a pretty good idea of what she needs to do and has chosen not to because your parents will enable her no matter what.
In Alanon we learn to detach with love. There's nothing wrong with expressing sympathy for her loss, or telling her that you hope she chooses to get better and that you support her recovery if that's what you want to do.
Sorry your family is experiencing this. There's no perfect way to deal with addiction that guarantees a happy outcome for all involved. All you can do- which it sounds like you have, is love the person where they are, offer support if they get real help, but not enable their disease or cushion them from the natural consequences of their actions.
Hugs to you and your poor nephew.
Reading between the epic guilt trip and the Joan of Arc level martyrdom in your father's email, it sounds like he wants you to come together as a family and basically nag her into rehab.
She obviously needs help. If her addiction is severe enough to have lost custody of her child, then she probably has a pretty good idea of what she needs to do and has chosen not to because your parents will enable her no matter what.
In Alanon we learn to detach with love. There's nothing wrong with expressing sympathy for her loss, or telling her that you hope she chooses to get better and that you support her recovery if that's what you want to do.
Sorry your family is experiencing this. There's no perfect way to deal with addiction that guarantees a happy outcome for all involved. All you can do- which it sounds like you have, is love the person where they are, offer support if they get real help, but not enable their disease or cushion them from the natural consequences of their actions.
Hugs to you and your poor nephew.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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My parents are raising him just like I am raising my kids. He does call them grandparent type names, but he is truly the only care takers he's had. There was a time he lived with his parents, but my parents went over in the morning to see that he was ok and numerous times throughout the day. and he spent many, many nights with them before the court ordered he had to. He goes to school, has friends, plays sports and goes on family vacations (him and my parents). I have two children and am sporting events daily, but I will babysit when they need a break or keep him for them. I feel awful that he has lost a parent, but I truly feel that he had already lost them. He did see them on most Sundays for a few hours. But I never really supported (in my mind) that because they were always 'messed up'.
I have tried to see that they are in a tough position, but it gets lost on me, because I am wondering when enough is enough. And I am not questioning that for the current situation, I have questioned this for awhile. I have read books like Joey's Song (I think) which talks of letting go is different from turning your back, etc. Without the kid my parents would be doing what they are doing, but since he is around they sort of put that excuse to him as to why they do what they do. We take care of her for him.
I have been thinking about him and that is the only time that I really feel sorrow or tears. I am sad for him but I have been sad for him for a long time.
I have tried to see that they are in a tough position, but it gets lost on me, because I am wondering when enough is enough. And I am not questioning that for the current situation, I have questioned this for awhile. I have read books like Joey's Song (I think) which talks of letting go is different from turning your back, etc. Without the kid my parents would be doing what they are doing, but since he is around they sort of put that excuse to him as to why they do what they do. We take care of her for him.
I have been thinking about him and that is the only time that I really feel sorrow or tears. I am sad for him but I have been sad for him for a long time.
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Hi, I just wanted to say that your post touched me. I have a 22 year old who is an addict and a son who is 24 and a non-addict. Since my daughter's addiction came to light, my son basically "wrote her off" and will not have anything to do with her. I understand that he has a right to his feelings and I don't pressure him, but his girlfriend has numerous problems not addiction related and he is very compassionate and understanding towards her but refuses to acknowledge his sister's disease in any way. This hurts me greatly as the mother of both and puts me in the middle (so I feel). I am not trying to push you to be in your sister's life, but may be for the sake of your parents who no doubt love all of you equally (as parents do) maybe you and your siblings could try to see their point of view. Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the things you are going through. Addiction is no picnic and destroys families.
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elissa1962 -- I would like to comment that I am glad that you think he has a right to his feelings and that you do not pressure him. I would appreciate if my parents would treat me more like that. Instead I am spoken to like I am a piece of trash because I don't think the way they want me to think. They tell me how I should act and feel what to do. I am a 40 y/o completely independent from my parents. I am married, raising two children of my own. But yet, I still get 'hate' calls, emails and texts which are all using some form of manipulation, guilt, etc. IMO it's all a form of abuse. He wants to tell me how he thinks I should handle things without listening to anything I have to say, because no matter what I think or feel it's wrong.
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I don't think he or your mom should put you down for feeling the way that you do. I think its much easier for siblings to go on with their lives than parents. Maybe you can try talking to them about how you feel? I wish my son would say something about it instead of pretending she died or something. It just really hurts when you think of how close they were as children. I feel for your family, I really do. You are in my prayers. Elissa
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need2no, I think you are perfectly valid in believing that the way your parents talk to you about your sister is abuse. They are hurting in an unimaginable way, but by clinging to trying to control you and your relationship with your sister, they are hurting everyone all the more.
I do not think you are cold-hearted. If you cannot count on your own parents to honor your feelings and your right to live your life in a way that is healthy for you, then you have to do it yourself. Addiction is a family disease, and unfortunately its primary attack is always upon the relationships between the non-addicted family members.
I do not think you are cold-hearted. If you cannot count on your own parents to honor your feelings and your right to live your life in a way that is healthy for you, then you have to do it yourself. Addiction is a family disease, and unfortunately its primary attack is always upon the relationships between the non-addicted family members.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Dear Dad,
I love you, and thank you for my life.
But just as being my father does not
entitle you to molest me-----neither does it
entitle you to allow a cancer to infiltrate and
destroy my life.
To accuse me of being a coward for refusing
to be enmeshed with this? Well, all I can is that
is rich beyond measure-----as your enabling of my
sister is probably the clearest example of cowardice
I have ever been taught.
Why don't you ( for once in your life ) man up and
stop blaming the passengers for your family ship
running aground? You were the Captain . Stop blaming
the catering crew/ harbor pilot/ company?
She abuses family destroying chemicals of mass destruction
and I could lose 10 pounds or cut down on diet coke.
Hitler murdered 6 million and I got a parking ticket. Both of
us are evil. What a transparent crock of bullcrap!
Once again, thanks for the shot at life. You'll just have to make
peace with the fact that I choose not to throw mine away.
Ciao
I love you, and thank you for my life.
But just as being my father does not
entitle you to molest me-----neither does it
entitle you to allow a cancer to infiltrate and
destroy my life.
To accuse me of being a coward for refusing
to be enmeshed with this? Well, all I can is that
is rich beyond measure-----as your enabling of my
sister is probably the clearest example of cowardice
I have ever been taught.
Why don't you ( for once in your life ) man up and
stop blaming the passengers for your family ship
running aground? You were the Captain . Stop blaming
the catering crew/ harbor pilot/ company?
She abuses family destroying chemicals of mass destruction
and I could lose 10 pounds or cut down on diet coke.
Hitler murdered 6 million and I got a parking ticket. Both of
us are evil. What a transparent crock of bullcrap!
Once again, thanks for the shot at life. You'll just have to make
peace with the fact that I choose not to throw mine away.
Ciao
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
need2no...
Welcome to the Board. I'm sorry I'm late getting to this, but I'm also grateful that members like Vale and ladyscribbler have responded as they have.
When I read something like this, my initial impression is he's taking out his frustrations on you. And in the context of what's going on -- your sister and her husband ODing and her husband not surviving -- his words make "sense" for lack of a better word. He's hurting, and he's hurting a ton. If you read the stories of our resident moms here at FFSA and what they've gone through with their addict children, it's not at all dissimilar to what your dad must be feeling. He has to be wondering if and how he failed your sister. Of course, he hasn't, but I bet in his darkest moments, he believes he has. So his email reflects all the conflicted, horrible feelings he's currently experiencing, and his defense of your sister is what any man would do for his daughter.
Mind you, none of this excuses his email. It was a bad move on his part. All I'm saying is I understand his pain and his confusion, and on that basis, compassion towards him is certainly justified. His email wasn't about you. It was about him.
As for you...
There is nothing anyone can do to help your sister. It is ultimately incumbent on her to a) stop using, b) seek treatment, c) follow that treatment up with adhering to a program puts her on the path to recovery. Your parents cannot do that for her. Nor can you. All you've done is protect yourself from the carnage of her addiction, and that's the smart play.
If you need space from your parents, take it.
I can appreciate the intent behind Vale's response. He's right. Vale usually is. But that's not a response I would send out. Someone needs to be the responsible adult here. Don't take the bait.
Please keep us posted regarding your sister, and please accept my condolences for the loss of your brother-in-law.
Welcome to the Board. I'm sorry I'm late getting to this, but I'm also grateful that members like Vale and ladyscribbler have responded as they have.
When I read something like this, my initial impression is he's taking out his frustrations on you. And in the context of what's going on -- your sister and her husband ODing and her husband not surviving -- his words make "sense" for lack of a better word. He's hurting, and he's hurting a ton. If you read the stories of our resident moms here at FFSA and what they've gone through with their addict children, it's not at all dissimilar to what your dad must be feeling. He has to be wondering if and how he failed your sister. Of course, he hasn't, but I bet in his darkest moments, he believes he has. So his email reflects all the conflicted, horrible feelings he's currently experiencing, and his defense of your sister is what any man would do for his daughter.
Mind you, none of this excuses his email. It was a bad move on his part. All I'm saying is I understand his pain and his confusion, and on that basis, compassion towards him is certainly justified. His email wasn't about you. It was about him.
As for you...
There is nothing anyone can do to help your sister. It is ultimately incumbent on her to a) stop using, b) seek treatment, c) follow that treatment up with adhering to a program puts her on the path to recovery. Your parents cannot do that for her. Nor can you. All you've done is protect yourself from the carnage of her addiction, and that's the smart play.
If you need space from your parents, take it.
I can appreciate the intent behind Vale's response. He's right. Vale usually is. But that's not a response I would send out. Someone needs to be the responsible adult here. Don't take the bait.
Please keep us posted regarding your sister, and please accept my condolences for the loss of your brother-in-law.
Last edited by greeteachday; 06-16-2015 at 04:22 PM. Reason: deleting personal email
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I appreciate all the comments. I really do. Even if your ideas and thoughts vary from mine and others. I think I sent you a pretty tame message from him. On the phone he was pretty much insane; like a monster spewing hate. This whole situation gives me terrible anxiety. I am nervous like waiting for the next form of communication and pray it's not in person. He would never believe that he could use the help or that he has any problem. And if I tried to even most delicately discuss it, he would say that my focus is not where it should be. My husband was in the grocery store and he knows that my sister is out of the hospital. I am guessing they didn't think that she should go from one bed to the next (which is what I thought might be good) Maybe they are waiting on services to happen. I hate that Father's Day is next weekend, b/c no matter what I do it will be wrong. Guaranteed. He did tell my brother he's out of the will when my brother told him he needed space. As if any of us could care less about money...... If he's as you say sozo77 taking his frustrations out on me and my other sister and brother....when might it end? he's called numerous times/emailed and texted to each of us, over just a few days when will he finally be tired?
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Posts: 1,854
I think you have the right to not get involved with your sister if you choose. There is however no rule that says family must cut someone out of their life because they use substances. Its a matter of finding balance so your own life remains healthy as possible.
Im sure its upsetting for your parents to have their daughter OD, be hospitalized, have their son inlaw OD and die. There must be funeral arrangements and things which need to be taken care of, and the stress of it all would be pretty huge I would think. They still have to keep life together for their grandson at home who's dad just died.
I sympathize with how your parents must feel.
No they shouldnt keep calling you if you made your stance clear. Screaming at someone is never acceptable. Im sorry your dealing with all this, and hope the behavior stops when things settle down emotionally. When my husband was in the ICU, his mom said a lot of stuff to me not very kind. I tried to let it go because she was having her own emotional crisis at the time. It wasnt reflective of who she really is, or how she normally treated me. Maybe if you can make the same type of analysis of your parents behavior towards you it will help.
Im sure its upsetting for your parents to have their daughter OD, be hospitalized, have their son inlaw OD and die. There must be funeral arrangements and things which need to be taken care of, and the stress of it all would be pretty huge I would think. They still have to keep life together for their grandson at home who's dad just died.
I sympathize with how your parents must feel.
No they shouldnt keep calling you if you made your stance clear. Screaming at someone is never acceptable. Im sorry your dealing with all this, and hope the behavior stops when things settle down emotionally. When my husband was in the ICU, his mom said a lot of stuff to me not very kind. I tried to let it go because she was having her own emotional crisis at the time. It wasnt reflective of who she really is, or how she normally treated me. Maybe if you can make the same type of analysis of your parents behavior towards you it will help.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
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Posts: 3,403
If he's as you say zoso77 taking his frustrations out on me and my other sister and brother....when might it end? he's called numerous times/emailed and texted to each of us, over just a few days when will he finally be tired?
As for when it ends, I have no idea, and even if I did, that's not in your control. All you can do is look after yourself, monitor yourself, and do what you believe to be right.
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Join Date: Jun 2015
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need2no
Trust your instincts you have a right to protect yourself. My elderly mother who I am caring for defends and enables her 60 year old drug addict son at my expense. Therefore I have had to set strong healthy boundaries in order to keep myself healthy. Thanks for your post. I feel I am not alone in this. 
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Zoso (as usual) is right! Mine was not a communication
to send-----it was one to write and burn. Very soon in I
realized that nothing I said or did made a difference,
it just served as enmeshment fodder. Refuting craziness
(after awhile ) MAKES us crazy.
We understand codepency well . It is a game that
cannot be won........only avoided.
to send-----it was one to write and burn. Very soon in I
realized that nothing I said or did made a difference,
it just served as enmeshment fodder. Refuting craziness
(after awhile ) MAKES us crazy.
We understand codepency well . It is a game that
cannot be won........only avoided.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 2,282
Cold hearted?
Perhaps.
But 'hot' and 'rational' as words never seemed to go together.
Hot headed is how you want your enemies.
That way they make stupid mistakes that you can
capitalize on. No, cold and rational people are
the kind I DON'T like to deal with.
So you like fair fights? I don't. I like my (real) fights
to be as one sided as a heart attack. More like a state
execution than a military battle. A military battle can
be LOST. Absent a last minute stay-----the hanging
is a fairly predictable event.
Executive summary
(the duck can be SOOOO long winded!):
Cold hearted is a compliment, not a slight.
Perhaps.
But 'hot' and 'rational' as words never seemed to go together.
Hot headed is how you want your enemies.
That way they make stupid mistakes that you can
capitalize on. No, cold and rational people are
the kind I DON'T like to deal with.
So you like fair fights? I don't. I like my (real) fights
to be as one sided as a heart attack. More like a state
execution than a military battle. A military battle can
be LOST. Absent a last minute stay-----the hanging
is a fairly predictable event.
Executive summary
(the duck can be SOOOO long winded!):
Cold hearted is a compliment, not a slight.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 2,684
need2no: Am joining in late here and want to say kudos to you and your family for finding the strength and resolve to not enable. I am sorry your family is experiencing pain, sorry for your/their loss.
Long story short, I am the mom of a user, who is now on his own, but when he lived at home in years past, I was caught up in enabling behavior. His older sister, then in college (thank goodness she wasn't living at home to experience the craziness that occurred!!!) distanced herself from her little brother. Though sometimes I felt/feel bad that they don't have a sweet fairy tale relationship, I am glad she was wise and strong enough to not enable, not jump on the drama train. It was an awful time but somewhat better now.
Prayers for your nephew and family.
Long story short, I am the mom of a user, who is now on his own, but when he lived at home in years past, I was caught up in enabling behavior. His older sister, then in college (thank goodness she wasn't living at home to experience the craziness that occurred!!!) distanced herself from her little brother. Though sometimes I felt/feel bad that they don't have a sweet fairy tale relationship, I am glad she was wise and strong enough to not enable, not jump on the drama train. It was an awful time but somewhat better now.
Prayers for your nephew and family.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
If he's as you say sozo77 taking his frustrations out on me and my other sister and brother....when might it end? he's called numerous times/emailed and texted to each of us, over just a few days when will he finally be tired?
You and your sister and brother are standing on the outside of the family circle looking in and seeing many things those still inside of it are unable to see right now. The inside of the circle people will always attempt to pull the outsiders back in.
I think you and your siblings are taking a healthy approach to this horrible situation. I think you have stated your boundaries clearly to your dad and he doesn’t like it. Now is the time to stop discussing them and just stick to them. You and your siblings be the healthy examples.
You don’t need to answer your phone or read emails if you are not in the right frame of mind. You don’t need to answer your door is he comes knocking unless you are in the right frame of mind and wish to.
I think preparing yourself to stick to your boundaries and telling the person looking back at you in the mirror that YES it is ok to set them and more important to stick to them is your key to this. And that “family” is not a license for abuse.
You have an advantage, you have support from your siblings so maybe the key talking points from all of you to your parents is for them to "seek help" either in therapy, al-anon, nar-anon something.
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