The value of time
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Wollongong NSW
Posts: 241
The value of time
I was wanting to hear some ideas, opinions and experiences of how much people think TIME sober benefits the alcoholic/addict. Really just a simple look at length of time itself as an actual valuable asset for abstinence.
It seems like the answer is obvious and personally I think many tend to over or under state its importance to fall in line with various recovery world views, perhaps without simply looking at it pragmatically.
This side of recovery has always interested me from a human nature perspective, much of the "scripts" we follow have written in them various perspectives on Time, with sometimes deep messages (possibly indoctrinated in our heads) of when we should celebrate our time, be cautious, not talk about it, give it huge value, or give it no value the mythologies that we need to respect time in others and ourselves (wisdom of old timers) and/or de value time in others with labels like "Dry Drunks".
I look forward to your perspectives.
It seems like the answer is obvious and personally I think many tend to over or under state its importance to fall in line with various recovery world views, perhaps without simply looking at it pragmatically.
This side of recovery has always interested me from a human nature perspective, much of the "scripts" we follow have written in them various perspectives on Time, with sometimes deep messages (possibly indoctrinated in our heads) of when we should celebrate our time, be cautious, not talk about it, give it huge value, or give it no value the mythologies that we need to respect time in others and ourselves (wisdom of old timers) and/or de value time in others with labels like "Dry Drunks".
I look forward to your perspectives.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
For me time like in other areas of life creates experience, when I walk close to the aisle at the store full of alcohol, when I'm at a wedding, a birthday, go to a sporting event and the guy next to me is having a beer, or where I come from not getting away from the world's biggest drinking day, St Patrick's day, these situations and how I deal with them have changed over time.
In the early days/weeks I physically needed to stay away from everything on that list, but as time went on and I learnt about my own addiction, my own thought processes, the triggers, the impulses, my own reactions and through repetition most of the time dealt with making successful Sober decisions you could say like all other areas of life, a certain expertise is developed in pushing alcohol to the kerb, a new Sober lifestyle is created, not simply abstaining put proactively conducting life in a new way.
Again as time passes my own thoughts have become less and less consumed with alcohol, Sobriety in the same way many aspects of my drinking had become my auto pilot, my normal.
If I compare my Day 1 to where I am now, Time must receive a lot of credit!!
In the early days/weeks I physically needed to stay away from everything on that list, but as time went on and I learnt about my own addiction, my own thought processes, the triggers, the impulses, my own reactions and through repetition most of the time dealt with making successful Sober decisions you could say like all other areas of life, a certain expertise is developed in pushing alcohol to the kerb, a new Sober lifestyle is created, not simply abstaining put proactively conducting life in a new way.
Again as time passes my own thoughts have become less and less consumed with alcohol, Sobriety in the same way many aspects of my drinking had become my auto pilot, my normal.
If I compare my Day 1 to where I am now, Time must receive a lot of credit!!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2,937
I think time is really important.
For me, everyday when I had given up drinking, was a day of getting into new routines, doing things differently and making new healthy habits.
At first, not drinking every evening felt strange.
Now to drink in the evening would feel strange as it has been so long since I did that.
I also feel the more time I have sober the less I want to break the number of days without alcohol.
For me, everyday when I had given up drinking, was a day of getting into new routines, doing things differently and making new healthy habits.
At first, not drinking every evening felt strange.
Now to drink in the evening would feel strange as it has been so long since I did that.
I also feel the more time I have sober the less I want to break the number of days without alcohol.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Just physiologically, time matters because our brains heal. I read that after 10 years abstinence there is no medical way to tell a former addict from anyone else in MRI scans. Before that, a trained specialist can tell, and for a good while after we quit our brains look just like the brains of active addicts. I think that's what we perceive as we build up sober time, it gets easier and easier to go about life without being stressed over the absence of our former crutches, and we find it easier and easier to deal with situations and people and places that would once have been very triggering. So yes, time matters. Whether or not we use that time to work on underlying issues that might have driven us to become addicts in the first place, is up to us.
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
I think time is very important as it both normalizes a sober lifestyle and allows physical and mental healing to occur. The danger, though. is that time becomes the actual goal.
In days past, I would have a goal of trying to achieve a certain amount of days sober. If I relapsed, I "lost" what time I had accumulated, I was frustrated that I had to start over, and I was ashamed to admit that I messed up my sober streak. Non of that has anything directly to do with sobriety, but as a good alcohol it was more comfortable to go back to drinking and avoid all that awkwardness. This is why I think having time as the goal can be dangerous. I prefer to focus on staying sober and letting the time take care of itself.
In days past, I would have a goal of trying to achieve a certain amount of days sober. If I relapsed, I "lost" what time I had accumulated, I was frustrated that I had to start over, and I was ashamed to admit that I messed up my sober streak. Non of that has anything directly to do with sobriety, but as a good alcohol it was more comfortable to go back to drinking and avoid all that awkwardness. This is why I think having time as the goal can be dangerous. I prefer to focus on staying sober and letting the time take care of itself.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK
Posts: 215
What immediately springs to mind is something said to me when I was counting the days from my last drink "Don't count the days, make the days count."
The other saying that I like of a similar nature is 'who ever got up earliest today has the most sober time'.
Even better, from the book Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams "Time is an illusion; lunch time doubly so".
I'm sure there must be physical changes that occur overtime as the last drug of choice leaves the system. But ultimately my problem was the mental obsession. I don't think it was simply a matter of time that took away the obsession, although it took time.
For me the thing that counts is the insight gained and by that I mean the bringing of the sub conscious to the conscious a spiritual awakening and to clarify that by spiritual I refer to 'a' definition that sprirituality is about relationships with self, others and a God/HP of ones own understanding.
Those insights for me came by talking with others in recovery, by self examination and action.
To use the other old saying 'sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly' ... time since the last 'drug of choice' to my way of thinking is mostly, but not entirely irrelevant, I'm glad I've reached a point where I don't consider the time and I'm glad because it used to cause me difficulties.
... I didn't feel as good or worthy as those with more time, I felt better than those with less. That is a distorted erroneous view I held - a failure of grandiosity at both ends of the spectrum. Yikes.
... I imagined 'magic' would happen at a certain intervals. It didn't happen at certain intervals, but it did happen. Although by magic I mean, insights and lessons were learned, I became gained more self awareness. I recovered.
... I can lose focus and future trip, I can get stuck in the past. Both deflect me away from now which is the only time.
So, time matters as part of the whole because it is part of the whole. But for me, I don't give much thought to time sober. I don't give time much credit either. Again it's an old saying but 'nothing changes if nothing changes' its the changes, insight and action that counts. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
...
The other saying that I like of a similar nature is 'who ever got up earliest today has the most sober time'.
Even better, from the book Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, by Douglas Adams "Time is an illusion; lunch time doubly so".
I'm sure there must be physical changes that occur overtime as the last drug of choice leaves the system. But ultimately my problem was the mental obsession. I don't think it was simply a matter of time that took away the obsession, although it took time.
For me the thing that counts is the insight gained and by that I mean the bringing of the sub conscious to the conscious a spiritual awakening and to clarify that by spiritual I refer to 'a' definition that sprirituality is about relationships with self, others and a God/HP of ones own understanding.
Those insights for me came by talking with others in recovery, by self examination and action.
To use the other old saying 'sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly' ... time since the last 'drug of choice' to my way of thinking is mostly, but not entirely irrelevant, I'm glad I've reached a point where I don't consider the time and I'm glad because it used to cause me difficulties.
... I didn't feel as good or worthy as those with more time, I felt better than those with less. That is a distorted erroneous view I held - a failure of grandiosity at both ends of the spectrum. Yikes.
... I imagined 'magic' would happen at a certain intervals. It didn't happen at certain intervals, but it did happen. Although by magic I mean, insights and lessons were learned, I became gained more self awareness. I recovered.
... I can lose focus and future trip, I can get stuck in the past. Both deflect me away from now which is the only time.
So, time matters as part of the whole because it is part of the whole. But for me, I don't give much thought to time sober. I don't give time much credit either. Again it's an old saying but 'nothing changes if nothing changes' its the changes, insight and action that counts. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.
...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 26,425
Two sides to the answer...
On the one hand ... Day one was harder than day two. 5 years off speed it finally wasn't something I thought about at least once a month. Time made a difference.
On the other hand ... It was one simple oops that threw me back into addiction. Weather it was after 2 months or 7 years ... it was really one moment of messed up thinking I wasn't prepared for that put me in a tail spin again.
I do know that I appreciate EVERY day that I have been sober. I don't feel any more or less safe from messing up due to any time I have.
And frankly ... I would rather die drunk than be some of the "sober" people I know. I know that is radical, but it's so much about finding the life that seems correct. The first is step is to be sober, the other steps will help support sobriety.
My mom told me the other day that those who are angry because I can't "guarantee" that I will be sober for ever, just don't get it...
I don't know if she is right, but I do know I will always strive to stay sober and that if I do drink I will strive to start the path again. I will always believe that a winner is a looser who never stops trying.
On the one hand ... Day one was harder than day two. 5 years off speed it finally wasn't something I thought about at least once a month. Time made a difference.
On the other hand ... It was one simple oops that threw me back into addiction. Weather it was after 2 months or 7 years ... it was really one moment of messed up thinking I wasn't prepared for that put me in a tail spin again.
I do know that I appreciate EVERY day that I have been sober. I don't feel any more or less safe from messing up due to any time I have.
And frankly ... I would rather die drunk than be some of the "sober" people I know. I know that is radical, but it's so much about finding the life that seems correct. The first is step is to be sober, the other steps will help support sobriety.
My mom told me the other day that those who are angry because I can't "guarantee" that I will be sober for ever, just don't get it...
I don't know if she is right, but I do know I will always strive to stay sober and that if I do drink I will strive to start the path again. I will always believe that a winner is a looser who never stops trying.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
"Don't count the days, make the days count."
Wise words. My first attempt I didn't make the days count. The first day was frightening, the next 60 days were easy, in the nut farm, no responsibilities, but I left having made no changes, no plan for life and life got rapidly worse. Compared to my last day sober, day one was a breeze.
A year later at age 22 I got sober, had a plan and made the days count. Another young man I knew also got sober at 22. He was such a nice fellow, he seemed much more deserving than me. We we both trying to work the same plan, but he had different support with different ideas (there is no right or wrong way, right?).
At two years my life had been transformed. On his second birthday my friend was found hanging in a forest. He never drank.
What you do with the time is what makes the difference, and sometimes the guidance you get can be fatally flawed.
Wise words. My first attempt I didn't make the days count. The first day was frightening, the next 60 days were easy, in the nut farm, no responsibilities, but I left having made no changes, no plan for life and life got rapidly worse. Compared to my last day sober, day one was a breeze.
A year later at age 22 I got sober, had a plan and made the days count. Another young man I knew also got sober at 22. He was such a nice fellow, he seemed much more deserving than me. We we both trying to work the same plan, but he had different support with different ideas (there is no right or wrong way, right?).
At two years my life had been transformed. On his second birthday my friend was found hanging in a forest. He never drank.
What you do with the time is what makes the difference, and sometimes the guidance you get can be fatally flawed.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bellingham
Posts: 513
I really like your posts. They are really thoughtful, challenging, but without falling back on another set of truisms or slogans.
When I was doing AA, counting days bothered me from the beginning. I intuitively recoiled. Kind of like, you know, the studio that practices 'real' Karate, doesn't go by belts.
Maybe there is a deeper and sacred level to the thing being practiced where calling attention to it is one layer of the experience, but not the only layer.
When I was doing AA, counting days bothered me from the beginning. I intuitively recoiled. Kind of like, you know, the studio that practices 'real' Karate, doesn't go by belts.
Maybe there is a deeper and sacred level to the thing being practiced where calling attention to it is one layer of the experience, but not the only layer.
A simple guy making his way
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,867
For me the purpose of time is to learn how to use time constructively.
With this mantra stuck in my head I work at making the time I have meaningful. I don't necessarily track my sober time. I measure my sober life by how much I have been able to nurture myself and improve my emotional health. I was miserable drunk. I hardly want to be miserable sober.
The other mantra I say everyday is my tag line below. I refuse to give power to what does not exist. Cravings have become in-actionable thoughts that I don't give power to.
The two out together give me the ability to stay sober and make good use of my time.
Ken
With this mantra stuck in my head I work at making the time I have meaningful. I don't necessarily track my sober time. I measure my sober life by how much I have been able to nurture myself and improve my emotional health. I was miserable drunk. I hardly want to be miserable sober.
The other mantra I say everyday is my tag line below. I refuse to give power to what does not exist. Cravings have become in-actionable thoughts that I don't give power to.
The two out together give me the ability to stay sober and make good use of my time.
Ken
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
time = experience no matter the task, occupation etc.
However, some people can have a month experience at a certain 'task' and perform it better than someone who has a year experience.
Time is irrelevant in the short term. In the long term time matters.
A young tree's roots will not support it during the storm, it needs support. An older established tree will handle the storm on its own. Its roots are set more firmly.
However, some people can have a month experience at a certain 'task' and perform it better than someone who has a year experience.
Time is irrelevant in the short term. In the long term time matters.
A young tree's roots will not support it during the storm, it needs support. An older established tree will handle the storm on its own. Its roots are set more firmly.
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