Just how responsible are they, again?

Old 06-15-2015, 07:45 AM
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Just how responsible are they, again?

Whenever I express anger with one or more of the addicts in my life, someone will remind me that addiction is an disease, and we shouldn't get mad at people for being sick. It's not his fault he's a violent alcoholic, it's not her fault she's a heroin addict, etc.

But in the same breath, they'll say it's not an excuse and they're responsible for their own actions.

How to reconcile these? Either they're responsible for their actions or they aren't. If they're responsible for their actions, then why does it matter that they have a disease? Or, if their disease means they have no control over their actions, then how is that NOT an excuse for their actions?

It seems to me like the same people will say "they're responsible" whenever we're talking about what the addict can do to change, and "they're not responsible" whenever they want to shut me up because I'm too angry!

So which is it? Are they responsible for their actions, or not? Am I justified in getting angry at the addict who beats up my mom or steals my girlfriend's car, or is it something that they have no control over? Because I'm getting contradictory answers.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:10 AM
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Honestly, I think it's both. They are responsible for their actions. We all are. But those in active addiction are sick and not capable of taking responsible actions. Until they choose not to be, which is entirely on their timeline.

For me, this is less about what they are doing than about what my expectations are.

I used to get so angry at XABF for falling asleep on the couch with lit cigarettes all the time, but the real question is why I continued to expect he would behave any differently next time? Because I got mad? Yeah, my feelings about his behavior weren't even a part of the addiction picture. They were not enough to affect his behavior.

I had to remove him from my home and end our relationship in order to realize that whether he was responsible for his behavior or just caught in the whirlwind of an addiction didn't matter at all. The only thing that mattered to me was what I was willing to live with.

I had some people tell me that they thought I handled things badly because they felt sorry for him when I kicked him out. Then he blew up my social media sites, voice mail, and email with hundreds of messages calling me all sorts of names and accusing me of all sorts of illicit behavior that simply wasn't true, and he lost the sympathy of other people really fast. He was responsible for all of it -- but could he help himself? I dunno. I don't think so? In the end, it did not matter: unacceptable behavior was unacceptable.

Not sure if this helps in your situation. I guess I'm just saying I had to take the focus off the why's and wherefore's of the addict's behavior before I could focus on the only thing I could actually change: Me.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:17 AM
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Everyone is responsible for their own actions, drugs are not an excuse.
And on the flip side of that you will be responsible for your actions and reactions toward the addicts in your life. If you enable, berate, freak out on out of frustration anger that is on you having nothing to do with them and their actions. Many who watch make the addicts in their lives an excuse as to why they are as they are.
It doesn’t fly either way.

At the end of the day…

There are good and evil people in this world …some happen to be addicts.

There are liars, cheaters, abusers and thieves in this world, and some happen to be addicts.

There are those who don’t work and those who do, and some happen to be addicts.

I read your other post. You really need to find a way to heal your past so it doesn’t destroy your own future.

Take care.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:18 AM
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How to reconcile these? Either they're responsible for their actions or they aren't. If they're responsible for their actions, then why does it matter that they have a disease? Or, if their disease means they have no control over their actions, then how is that NOT an excuse for their actions?
Here's my $0.02.

It's a disease such that their brains are wired differently than a non-addict or non-alcoholic. I, for example, can enjoy a glass or two of really good scotch, and then not touch alcohol for months afterwards. The alcoholic's response to that scotch, on the other hand, is extreme. Two glasses isn't enough. A thousand glasses isn't enough. Why is that bit flipped in their brain? I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, it is what it is.

That being said, it's up to the alcoholic/addict to manage the disease. If I, for example, have high cholesterol or high blood pressure, it's up to me to take medication to manage it if I want to be healthy. It's up to the alcoholic/addict to manage their illness. That may mean going to meetings 3 times a day if necessary. It may mean detaching from previous relationships with people who are associated with past destructive behaviors. It may mean therapy once a week. But what it always means is not drinking and/or not using.

My masseuse's husband recently completed treatment for alcoholism and tried the whole "it's a disease and I can't control it" act on her. I have a one word response for that: bullsh!t. When they say something like that, what they're really trying to do is give themselves permission to indulge their worst impulses without ever having to take responsibility for their choices and the consequences of those choices.

One more thing: physical violence is simply unacceptable. Period. No one is ever obligated to put up with that.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:19 AM
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It is a dis-ease in that it affects all bodily systems, but even worse it affects the brain's ability to rationally inhibit impulsive behaviors. Even at my worst, I still knew - through all the delusions - that I could get help and quit if I made that choice. So, I believe it is a dis-ease process begun by bad choices that results in uninhibited behavior due to physiological changes in the brain caused by administration of the drug.

All you can do is protect yourself. The addict is in freefall and you cannot be their parachute. They have to find the ripcord and pull it themselves.
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Old 06-15-2015, 08:24 AM
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For anyone to change their habits is not that easy. But when necessary most seem to do it. Change is hard. Some actually need help changing THEIR ways.

There are some with serious physical & mental issues and then are some that are simply selfish, ignorant or arrogant about their ways. I just don't want to see excuse abuse ie "it's a disease". Should they still be helped- yes.
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:40 AM
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Take the use of alcohol/drugs out of it, are the behaviors acceptable or not?
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Old 06-15-2015, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
Take the use of alcohol/drugs out of it, are the behaviors acceptable or not?
Nope. Which is why I get so confused when someone trots out the "disease" excuse (while claiming it's not an excuse). I don't care about the drugs and booze, I care about the lies and beatings. Take those behaviors out, and they can get as high as they want for all I care.
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:11 AM
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Physical abuse would be a dealbreaker for me. Please contact a Domestic Abuse hotline if you are the one being beaten. Abuse is a separate issue, apart from alcoholism/drug abuse. Many addicts are not violent. Please seek help right now.

I think the disease thing is not so much an excuse as it is a real problem which has to be dealt with - it isn't just a character flaw, there are physiological changes that take effect with repeated substance abuse. This is not what causes domestic abuse, though it can exacerbate a predisposition to violence.
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
Take the use of alcohol/drugs out of it, are the behaviors acceptable or not?
Exactly!

There are frequently character issues along with a stack of poor if not selfish decision making.
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