Goodstart

Hi all


As I mentioned in slep y's thread and sorry so much for starting there .... Why can't we expect ? If spending decade/s of our lifes with others don't give us the satisfaction of expecting som things then isn't life mechanical? We are born... Yes .... We live .... Yes .... We die.... Yes.... But when we are born our mother is so happy she expects motherhood ... When we live we wre so happy we hope to contribute to the best of the society and ourselves we marry have friends we expect happiness at eternal level. What's wrong in that? Others will also expect happiness from us... Nothing wrong in my opinion.



So why do we have to restrict ourselves to ourselves ?

Goodstart

I am no doing the for any melodrama but as a real question don't we want someone anyone to care ?

SparkleKitty

I don't accept that not having expectations automatically means we don't want them to care. It means that we accept that we are not entitled to the things others do and provide for us.

For me, rejecting expectations is not about other people, only about me. I don't see having expectations of someone equaling joy. I am grateful that people in my life and work are consistent -- when they prove not to be, I make choices to either eliminate them from my life or to reduce contact with them as much as possible. I have joy from the people in my life giving of themselves freely to me and from giving freely to them, and in handling my responsibility to take care of myself.

trachemys

You have to define "expectation" and "expect". Is it good or bad that you expect? Is expecting good or bad?

Not being obfuscatory intentionally but you have to define the situation.

ArtFriend

Well there is a school of thought that if you don't expect anything, you can never get hurt. Then there is this pearl of wisdom: Ask for 6, expect 5 and get 4. Of course there is also the Kenny Rogers School of Philosophy - you got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, know when to run.

Aellyce

This is something I thought about a lot over years. I was usually inclined to say that too, drop the expectations and it'll resolve the anxiety and ensure we can enjoy things in life more. The truth, I think, is that it's impossible to live without expectations. As soon as we find something interesting, appealing, desirable etc, we have expectations associated with the experience. Expectations drive our actions both in positive and negative ways. Positive eg. that we get sober because we want to have a better life. Negative eg. when we have anxiety about something and tend to focus on possibly negative outcomes. There are also expectations in all kinds of relationships: why would be get into them and maintain them otherwise?

I personally don't think that expectations are bad or that we should strive to avoid them. It's more to not become overly dependent on external validation such that we don't do anything on our own to work towards our goals and to solve our problems. Living without expectations would assume a world where people, other forms of life, and things can exist in isolation, in an entirely self-sufficient way. Clearly not the case in the world we live in.

RobbyRobot had something on Sleepie's thread that is very much in line with my thinking about this and has been for a long time, about interdependence. That's how I see, too.

wpainterw

Perhaps another name is "hope". Let me never be "hopeless". Let me "hope" both for myself and, even more important, for others. Shelley put it, " To hope till hope creates from its own wreck the thing it contemplates..." Or, as Churchill said, "Never surrender!" (Never give up)

W.

Goodstart

I am the first one to agree that expectations ger blurred with entitlement. But really when you dig deep within there is that need

Goodstart

So really do we want to get better for anyone else than for those we love ? Be honest

Goodstart

Who else cares ?

Dee74

I had to get better for me.

I didn't have anyone else by the time I quit, but that was a good thing in retrospect....getting better for someone else didn't work for me....addiction won all the time...I drove al lot of people away.

D

Wholesome

My bf is Peter Pan.

least

"Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed."

Goodstart

I don't argue at all that we have to get better for ourselves .... But my question is deep down are we not trying to connect /please our significant other

Dee74

I'm not sure if we're on the same wavelength but I was a people pleaser for a long long time.

A life based on pleasing others is always going to end in disappointment and resentment for us.

D

Andante

Well, I had to get better for me because there really wasn’t anyone else — no spouse, no kids, no S.O., no close family.

However, I’m intrigued, and have been for some time, about the broader question here. In a world (presented as the ideal by some schools of recovery) where everyone goes around perfectly serene, with absolutely no expectations of anyone else and no capacity for emotional pain — how can anyone be “significant” to any other? Wouldn’t a marriage be nothing more than a business partnership? How can there be a “relationship” if neither of the participants is affected by the behavior or actions of the other? Isn’t honest emotional interaction and sharing of vulnerabilities the very definition of intimacy? And without intimacy, what distinguishes a close relationship from a casual one?

wpainterw

It's a story as old as the world. Some people care about other people. Other people just care about themselves. Animals tend to care only about their kids. But elephants are said to care for other elephants in the pack. So in the real world expecting large numbers of people to care about you, congratulate you on your recovery, is apt to be disappointing. Alcoholics are often dependent on others, inwardly unsure of themselves, people pleasing. With recovery, it seems possible to break free of this, become less dependent, more self reliant. Why not be good to yourself. If you don't drink or drug, you deserve it, regardless of what some other people think.

W.

Dee74

I'd hate to think anyone would think of me as a saint LOL.

My drinking narrative and my loving relationship narrative don't overlap as I met my partner when I was sober.

This is the first relationship I've ever had where I'm not clinging onto it with white knuckles like a life preserver.

It doesn't mean I love Mrs Dee any less - in fact I think I love her more for it - but I'm not looking for anyone to complete me, I'm already complete, thanks to the work I did when I got sober.

Thats not saying she doesn't make me better. She does I hope it goes back the other way too lol - she says it does.

But yeah - we're human - sometimes my expectations are not met, and vice versa. Sometimes my expectations are not reasonable, and vice versa, too.

We've lasted because we communicate, and work to a solution.

Any problems we've had (and there been a few) come from not communicating.

D

Fly N Buy

The simple reason that expectations are truncated as we recover is when someone disappoints us or we put too much on ourselves (our own expectations ) and the don't happen this forms resentments.

Resentments are bad in general but I concur they can be devastating to alcoholics. When we resent someone or something our pride is usually hurt among other things. As we wallow in this self pity we become loathsome and dwell on being upset. I'll show them - I'll hurt me!

"Resentments are the dubious luxury of normal men - to alcoholics they are poison "

At this point we are but a blink away from a drink.

This is my understanding of expectations and their results.
Now all that said - it doesn't mean we sit around chanting kumbia

Thanks for the thread!
If I don't allow others to make me angry I won't drink!! Importantly though, when they do make me angry I have tools to deal with that anger - hopefully

Soberintexas007

The only reason why I have been able to live with an active alcoholic is because I have few expectations of him. If I did have expectations of him, I would be a bag of resentment and probably drinking over it. In fact, he is bothering me right now, so I think I will just go into the other room.