selpats

So I began therapy last week with a counselor who specializes in anxiety and addiction. So far, she has been a huge help as far as putting things into perspective. Among many things, one suggestion she had is that I attend an NA meeting with my recovering addict. In addition to helping me understand his point of view, she also thought it might help me get in touch with my spirituality, which she believes will aid in my anxiety prevention.
After discussing with my boyfriend about how I wanted to stop drinking and smoking (I'm not a heavy user, but my therapist said it could contribute to my anxiety, and I never do either of these things in his company), he suggested I attend an NA meeting with him without me even having to ask. However, today, the day of the meeting, he said he would rather go with his friends.
Since we have gotten back together, I have not hung out with him and his friends once. I used to hang out with them no problem before hand. They supposedly don't like me anymore. I honestly don't really understand why. I know part of the reason is due to some really harsh poetry I wrote about him while we were broken up, but after what he did to me, I don't see how they can let one little thing change their opinion of me, especially seeing as I wrote those poems when I was extremely hurt. I know they don't really trust me because his addiction got out of control when he was living with me, but I have learned a lot from this situation, and I would never ignore his problems like that again.
My friends don't really like him either, for obvious reasons, but I have made an attempt to integrate him back into my life. For example, the other day we went to a movie with my best friend and her boyfriend. It was a little awkward, but it's a start. I guess I just don't understand why he doesn't want me hanging out with his friends. After everything, it's really hard for me to trust him, and when he excludes me from things because he doesn't want me interacting with his friends, it makes me feel like he has something to hide, even if he doesn't. It just seems awkward to me that he was fine with me going until he knew his friends were attending as well. I don't want to attack him, but I want to bring it up without sounding accusatory.

AnvilheadII

hon, this "boyfriend" of yours has been yanking your chain for quite a while now. this sudden change of plans is not really new behavior for him....it was only two months ago (?) he had another gf? you guys broke up etc etc. i just don't think you are going to GET the type of treatment you deserve and that you want FROM HIM. it always leaves you sad and doubting.........

selpats

He says he's going with friends he met in rehab, who don't know we're seeing each other again. He said they don't have the highest of opinions of me (even having never met me) because of what I let him get away with when we were living together. The way I see it, just like he isn't the same person he was 8 months ago, neither am I, and they would know that if I wasn't isolated from that part of his life. Not only that, but they're going to find out eventually. He says he's still fine with me going to an NA meeting with him, just not when he's going with his friends. To me it just seems like if he cared, he would want his friends to know that I am trying to be a better person for him and myself. I feel like he's not doing or saying anything to them to try to change their opinions of me. If I make him happy, wouldn't he want his friends to know that? I just want him to stop being childish and be honest about what he wants out of this relationship. If you don't want me hanging around your friends, and you're perfectly content with them thinking I'm the devil, then am I really that important to you? Probably not.

AnvilheadII

way too many games and you're being played. this isn't a RELATIONSHIP....too many conditions and he still gets to call the shots. what's in it for you?

selpats

I just don't know what to do. I'm lost. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out I deserve better, but I don't know how to break it off. How do you end things with someone that you actually want to be with? I've broken things off with people before, but never when it wasn't what I wanted. I have no idea what I'm doing.

AnvilheadII

and what is it about this champ that keeps you stuck? is it possible it is BECAUSE he is emotionally unavailable, BECAUSE he plays the Come Here, Go Away game, BECAUSE he doles out teeny bits of attention or whatever and then goes and does his thing again?

find the thread about the intermittent chicken....i'm useless at linking to other threads, sorry!

selpats

I guess I'm just hoping that if I keep trying, eventually he'll be ready to pick up where we left off before his addiction ruined our relationship. But like you said, I gets bits of affection here and there causing me to think he actually cares, when in reality, he probably doesn't.

cynical one

What was it that you "let him get away with" that would make his friends think you're the devil, or not like you.

zoso77

Well, at what point do you say enough is enough?

Mind you, I can't answer that question for you. But if you want to answer it, you first have to be honest with yourself.

If you're not honest with yourself, then you'll always be stuck.

JOIE12

This is the thread from the "intermittent chicken" story ......


My therapist told me that when he was studying to get his psychology degree, they had to do an experiment with chickens. They were given 3 chickens, and they had to document their behavior. The first chicken got a food pellet every time it pecked the lever. The second chicken got a food pellet intermittently, sometimes yes, sometimes no. The third chicken never got a food pellet no matter how many times it pecked the lever. My therapist asked me, "Which chicken do you think drove itself absolutely nuts pecking at that lever to get a food pellet?" I gave what seemed to me to be the most logical answer, "The one who never got the pellet...??" He said, "Nope. The one who only intermittently got the pellet." And then he looked at me expectantly, as if this information should have some relevant meaning to me, lol.

So I'm sitting there thinking, 'Ummm....okayyyyyy. What the heck does this story have to do with MY situation?? Why is he just sitting there, looking at me as if he thinks this little anecdote is going to have some significance for me??' So he finally takes pity on me (lol) and says, "That's what he did to YOU." And I just stared at him blankly and asked, "Did what to me? What do you mean?" And he goes, "He created that same situation with the intermittently-fed chicken with you. He always kept you unbalanced with that come here-go away dynamic, he'd call you to come over, you'd be on cloud nine, and then you wouldn't hear from him for a week. Or two. Or a month. Then all of a sudden you'd hear from him three weeks in a row, and then you wouldn't hear again for who knows how long. And he kept up this unpredictable rhythm of highs and lows, always keeping you guessing, never knowing when you'd hear, until you didn't know if you were coming or going. He had you right where he wanted you - close enough to keep you hooked, so that you'd come running when he wanted you, but distant enough that he never had to make any real effort or commitment. And that type of dynamic creates an obsession, wondering when you're going to hear from him, when you're going to see him, then you'd see him and sometimes he'd say all the right things and let you stay over and other times it was for an hour and he'd practically kick you out as soon as it was over. Either way, he'd then go back to ignoring your existence, leaving you to obsess over when you were going to hear from him again, until he wanted his selfish needs satisfied again. You see, he created an obsession in you, just like the obsession created with the intermittent chicken never knowing when it was going to get a food pellet." By this time, I think my jaw was hanging open, and I practically screeched in disbelief, "Wait, I'M the intermittent chicken????" LOL!


I can (mostly) laugh about it now. But I have to say, it took a couple days to fully sink in, and when it did, it really bothered me.....because I knew it was TRUE. Whether deliberate or not, he had turned me into his damn chicken - and I had LET him!! I allowed myself to be turned into an obsessed, clucking chicken frantically pecking at the lever, desperate to get a tiny pellet of affection from him. And my therapist said that these types of relationships can be very difficult to break free of.

I have to say, it was really one of those 'lightbulb' moments for me, and it has stuck with me these past weeks. And on the days when it hurts so much, when I feel like I can't take it, I allow myself to feel the pain, sit with it a bit, and usually shed some tears. But then I do my best to shut it out, dry my eyes and remind myself, "NO. I am NOT his intermittent chicken anymore.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And wise words from Dandylion:
for one thing, it gives intermittent reinforcement (the strongest pattern of reinforcement) for the hope that the relationship will finally become the fantasy dream that we cling to from when we first met that person.. That we will become nurtured and valued and matter to someone..therefore never be abandoned and alone.
Rather than that bond being broken by the bad times....we get hooked back in again by the period of good behavior..strenthening the bond each time.
The abuser is aware of this, of course, at some level. That is how they "know" that we require some good times to keep us there. As the abuser becomes more confident in the power...the episodes of the good times can become shorter and shorter.
It is amazing how well the abuser learns our buttons and knows just where to push them to rope us back, again.

auroraxborealis

My X used to keep friends seperated. I wanted my friends to meet this person I was sharing my life with, but he felt uncomfortable around them. I wanted to meet his friends, but he didn't like bringing me around. His family was a different story--they all took me in with open arms.

He told me he didn't fit in with my friends on the few occasions I was able to get him to hang out. I think he never felt good enough for my crowd.

I sometimes think his friends would wonder why I was with him, if that makes sense. I've heard some of them say things like, "she's a good girl," or "hold on to her," things like that. His old cellie still calls to check up on me, and used to tell my X to never let me go. I sometimes think that he isn't confident enough in himself to step out with me and feel like he deserves to be with me. It wasn't about his friends, it was about how he felt about himself. Which is such a shame.

Or maybe I just have a big ego.

Towards the end for sure, I think it was because he was getting high, and I didn't know, and when people get together, they talk, and someone might have spilled the beans. Idk though because like I said, I was always with his family, so its not like he was hiding me from them.

selpats

I hate to admit it, but I was a pretty bad enabler to him when he was using. I guess I just didn't want to admit to myself that he was using, so I let him manipulate me into believing what I wanted to hear, which is that his addiction wasn't as bad as it seemed. Of course, I feel terrible for doing so now, but I can't change the past. I can only make sure I don't do it again. I know his friends resent me for that, and I guess I can't blame them. I would just like the opportunity to prove to them I have changed, but my addict believes it is too soon.


I feel like this applies to me in some way. When we're together, I feel comfortable with the way things are going. He is attentive and fun, and we enjoy our time together. However, when we're not physically together, that's when I feel insecure. He's very busy with work, rehab, NA meetings, etc. Therefore, we don't see each other as much as I'd like. It makes me feel neglected. I actually had a good conversation with him the other day regarding this. I have WAY too much free time, while he has very little. The way he explained it to me, is that from my point of view it probably seems like we don't spend a lot of time together because I have nothing but free time. But to him, it seems like we hang out a lot because he doesn't have a lot of time. That really put it into perspective for me, but I will admit that sometimes I do feel like the intermittent chicken...


On a side note, I recently learned that my number isn't saved in his phone. I tried asking him about it but he didn't seem to think it was a big deal. Should I be worried or is he just being a guy? The only thing I can think of is that a lot of his friends don't know we're seeing each other again so he doesn't have my number saved so they don't know who he's talking to, but it still makes me kind of insecure considering everything that has happened. It's either that or he doesn't feel the need to save it because he already knows it's me.

allmirages

Joie12 - thank you so much for reposting the "Intemittent Chicken" thread. This is EXACTLY what I experienced, as well. This was the "hook" that kept drawing me back...kept me holding on...not wanting to give up. I'm slowly letting go of my ex and my resentment and anger towards him and this disease.

Selpats - I know how very hard it is to let go. I can tell how much you love this guy and want a future with him. But from his actions, they just seem very shady. It seems you are trying to explain why his friends think this or that or he does this or that. You don't owe them anything and shouldn't have to prove anything to them...period. The fact that he does not have your number saved under your name is a huge flag in my opinion. The fact that he keeps you separate from his friends makes me wonder who he is around that he doesn't want them to know you are in the picture. What exactly is he hiding? You deserve so...much...more. Hugs to you!

JOIE12

if it doesn't feel 'right' .... and your instinct is screaming that things don't fit ... please listen - it's a self defense mechanism. Heroin doesn't release it's hold on many. If it does it's for a period of time and then relapse.

Are you prepared to feel this way forever ? Can you face losing these years of your life ? maybe everything ? stop enabling and stop listening. Look at what he does. His actions are greater than any word he speaks.

Gettngstronger1

Wow, that intermittent chicken story really hit the nail on the head for me. I have been coming on this website once or twice a week since March, reading the posts, and I just now created a profile because of that story. That is exactly, to a T, what has been happening with me and my now ex addict boyfriend. I am in the process of finding a therapist for myself who specializes in addiction and codependency. I'm pretty sure I have abandonment issues based on things from my childhood. So behavior like this, here one minute and gone the next, telling me how much he loves me and then doesn't return my calls or texts for days to weeks at a time... it makes me CRAZY. It is literally driving me mad. I have slowly turned into a person that I don't recognize or like. I don't want to feel like this anymore. I understand that this is my issue that I need to work on.

Just this morning, I sent my ex a text telling him that I can't do this anymore, and that I deserve better. And I know that I deserve better... so how the heck have I been reduced to this person who eagerly awaits crumbs that he throws at me, whenever he feels like it? If someone had told me a year ago that this is where my life would be right now, I would have never believed it. I also said in the text that if he can't be consistent in his behavior, and treat me with respect, then he needs to stay away and leave me alone, so that I can heal and move on from this. Then I blocked his cell phone number, his email address, Facebook, Instagram... I am praying that I will be able to stay strong and see it through this time. This is so hard and heartbreaking. It's unreal to me how much addiction changes people.

Sorry to hijack your post, selpats. I hope that your therapist will prove to be beneficial in helping you decide the right thing to do, and to see it through to the end. This website has been so helpful to me. I feel so alone a lot of the time, as I don't have any friends who have ever gone through something like this. These posts make me realize that I am not alone, and that there are a lot of us going through this nightmare.

selpats

Thanks again to everyone who responded.

I honestly am feeling a little pathetic right now because I'm constantly coming back to all of you with the same story, different circumstances. I appreciate all the advice and perspective I am given, but I can't for the life of me take any of it.

I know he's shady. I know I deserve better. BUT I CAN'T WALK AWAY. I don't know how. I know I deserve to be with someone who makes me feel loved, but it's his love that I want, and I am having a really hard time separating what I need from what I want.

This whole situation is miserable. I spend a great deal of my time worrying about him, and the rest wishing someone would come up to me on the street and just put me out of my misery. I've been seeing an addictions counselor for 4 weeks. It has helped put some things into perspective for me, but still hasn't given me the tools to walk away. I just want to be happy again. I want to remember who I was before any of this ever happened and never look back.

AnvilheadII

BUT I CAN'T WALK AWAY

yeah you can. you just aren't ready or willing to do that yet.
you still hold onto this belief that HE will make you OK.

YOU make you ok. figure out how to do that. it is life changing when we no longer look to or depend on others to be ok. people in general are so flaky......

selpats

That couldn't be more true and that is something I'm trying really hard to work on. The therapy is helping, but I just haven't been going long enough to see many results. I spend the majority of my time alone as it is, so I guess that helps me get used to it.

I'm just so frustrated with myself because I SHOULD be totally ready and willing to walk away, but it's so hard to do when I know that doing so will break my own heart. It's almost like I'm trying to protect myself in the most messed up way possible.

In addition to everything else, he is now drinking. He was never a huge drinker, but now that it's all he can do, he's just trading in one addiction for another. It's incredibly frustrating to watch because he's facing about 20 years in prison if he violates his deferred judgement/probation.

There are so many red flags here so why is this so hard?