Kboys

...And maybe things aren't really as bad as I think they are...

I'm not trying to minimize my dry AH’s past abusive behavior, or make excuses for him. There were some really bad times, to say the least. And as I’ve posted before, things are better now, but still not great. Lots of ups and downs.

We had a really great weekend… a weekend that made me think, maybe things really can be okay. Maybe we really can stay together.

Then this morning comes around, and AH is moody. Weekday mornings are often hard at our house. Especially after a weekend, my two- and three-year old boys don’t want to get up, don’t want to get dressed, don’t want to do anything that we want them to do. I am quite patient, but these mornings are a major test for me, and even more so for AH, who has far less patience.
Then AH was upset because his work pants were not clean. I did all the laundry this weekend, but his pants were in a funny place… not in the laundry basket, so they didn’t get washed.
“It’s all right…. I guess I’ll just have to start doing my own laundry,” he says.
While he did not come out and blame me for the pants, I know he was thinking,
“if you were thinking about me, if you cared about me, you would have thought to look for my work pants.”
No, he did not say this, but he has said similar things in the past, so that’s what I hear.

We are trying to leave early from work today… taking the kids to Sesame Street Live.
So on our drive to work, he is obviously irritated, and he says, talking about his work, “I know today is going to be a cluster****… everybody’s going to want something from me. I’m tired of helping people…. And why do we need to leave at 3? It only takes an hour to get there…”

Though he was not necessarily directing any anger at me, I went into my fearful shut off mode. All I said was “okay,” Which irritated him even more… I wanted to say more, I wanted to say something supportive, like I would want to hear from him, but I just didn’t want it to turn into him getting more angry. I seem to always say the “wrong” things at times like these, and then his anger is directed at me.

So sometimes I wonder if I am being too sensitive… I go too quickly into defensive self-protective mode and make more out of things than they really are, and take things too personally? and yes, I think I am, and I do, but it’s because of the things that he has done in the past.

I mean, he is allowed to be moody, right? I’m not always happy go lucky either. And I do know that he is trying, in his way, to change his behaviors... No, he's not going to AA or therapy, or anything else, that I think he should but maybe just because he's not trying to change in the ways that I think he should, or as quickly as I think he should, maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.

Or maybe I'm just trying to delay the divorce that I know is inevitable by giving him too much credit.

I don’t know if that make sense, just wanted to think it out I guess.

Thank you for reading… I’m open to any thoughts from you all.

Happy short week!

shil2587

I do exactly the same thing! Down to the same response when he's moody or angry. My instinct is to minimise potential drama and keep verbal communication short and non-commital. I don't think that's self-defensive behaviour, but what you describe (taking it personally) sounds like low self-esteem.

I was there, very much there. Until I realised that no matter what my strengths and faults are, I don't have the power to make someone else snap into or out of a bad mood. That's their corner. All I can do is make sure I am not in the way when it happens and that I don't get swept up in it.

I also found 'co-dependant no more' VERY helpful. I don't think of myself as codependent, but I found the book helped me to see myself in a different, more positive way and I felt much stronger after reading it.

Try not to be too hard on yourself. Outwardly you seem to be handling a difficult situation well. Good job! Now it's just about taking some time to get to know and value yourself again. Xx

amy55

Kboys,

I don't think you are too sensitive. I think it's a learned experience that we sometimes have to not say too much, least the beast be released.

I think you walk on eggshells.

If I'm being blunt today, I don't mean to be. I guess I also have a lot of questions in my head today.

I think you are a terrific mom, and a terrific person.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

ladyscribbler

Then AH was upset because his work pants were not clean. I did all the laundry this weekend, but his pants were in a funny place… not in the laundry basket, so they didn’t get washed.

My sons are 6 and 13. They know that if it ain't in the hamper it ain't gettin' washed. A grown man should be able to understand and learn this.

I seem to always say the “wrong” things at times like these, and then his anger is directed at me.

I grew up living that feeling with my parents and then carried it into my adult relationships. It has taken me 37 years to learn that there is no "right" answer that is going to keep someone with mood/anger issues from blowing up. If you weren't there his anger would be directed at the wall or the washing machine or the spider on the basement ceiling. The anger is inside him. Nothing you say or do is the cause of that, you're just a convenient dumping ground.

So sometimes I wonder if I am being too sensitive…

I frequently got accused of being too sensitive or blowing things out of proportion. Looking back having been out of that situation for a year and a half I'm finding that I did a lot of minimizing and was actually desensitized to a lot of terrible, unacceptable behavior. If anything I was blowing the "good times" out of proportion because I was so desperate to somehow make things work.

Kboys

Thank you shil and amy

I do walk on eggshells, and I do struggle with self-esteem.

I know I'm taking steps in the right direction, and making progress, but yes, that learned fear of "unleashing the beast" is hard to get rid of.

amy55

Kboys, what you wrote was about "emotional abuse". I know the walking on eggshells, and the hyper vigilance. I know how we question ourselves sometimes as to whether or not we jumped to fast.

I think your thoughts and feelings were all normal.

I have a feeling or a sense that you did not feel okay with this. I wouldn't have either.

We have these feelings and intuitions in us to protect us.

((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

dandylion

Kboys.....I don't think you are being "too" sensitive. Rather...I think he is being a self-centered, narcissistic ass...to the point of being abusive to his family.
He obviously feels that he has the "right" to treat you all like this and, furthermore, he knows that he can get by with it. He knows your buttons so very well....lol!

It is normal to try to protect yourself in whatever whay you can when you are being mistreated.

I know that this may sound very harsh.....but, I have seen treatment like this...lots of times.
You sounded like you wanted to know what others really think....

dandylion

Kboys

If anything I was blowing the "good times" out of proportion because I was so desperate to somehow make things work.

Thank you ladyscribbler... yes, I think I'm doing this too. The part of me that is still not quite ready to let go just wants to hang onto something.
Anything seems "really great" compared to the weekends we had this time last year. At least he's not drinking at 8 am, yelling and screaming at me, and puking all night.

FireSprite

Based on my personal experience only, this sounds like he's white-knuckling like crazy without actually changing anything.

I know a lot of folks don't care for the term Dry Drunk, but that is how my RAH referred to himself when he was acting this way in early recovery. For him it meant a sober addict who is white-knuckling & not actively pursuing Recovery.

Yes, people get moody... but that's not the same thing as passive-aggressive behavior or blame shifting. (In the past, has he seriously expected you to just know that his work pants weren't in the laundry & track them down to be cleaned? I'm really hoping you are kidding!)

This, right here:
really just means he's not doing anything recovery-wise & expects that by not drinking he's done enough. RAH tried this too, when it came to changing his behaviors (he's always attended AA but didn't actually apply the tools he learned there to his life for a long time.). If I had a nickel for every time I heard about how he was "figuring it out himself" or "going to do this his own way"....

I would get furious when he'd say that, thinking of the time & resources I'd been putting into my own recovery & he's..... just going to "figure it out". I got sick of hearing it & during an argument I laughed at this idea - "How are YOU going to figure this out? You've become an expert in addiction, psychology, behaviors all of a sudden? People struggle the world over but You, YOU have it all under control & yet are showing zero signs of growth....? Really? That only sounds ridiculous to me??"

I hear lots of quacking Kboys & I don't think you're too sensitive. I think you're stuck in a giant grey area here. He may not be drinking but from your posts it doesn't sound like things have improved very much either. ((((hugs))))

foms77

Your post really resonated with me. I don't think you are being too sensitive at all. When my AH goes through his periods of sobriety he does it all on his own and just becomes miserable. He walks around like the world owes him something for giving up his beloved drinking and I walk around pissed off at the fact he is still entitled and selfish even when sober. I have come to accept that until an alcoholic truly commits to changing there is very little difference whether they are drinking or not. Sorry if I went off on a tangent, just wanted you to know that you are not alone in your feelings or your desire to hold on to the belief that things are getting better. I hope your time at Sesame Live is great

LemonGirl

I'm pretty sure Laydscribbler hit the nail on the head!

I do have a few cents though, if you don't mind? I'll be gentle. Just some things that may help... I happen to work with young children and all that, and developmentally speaking, children tend to reflect parents' weaknesses. So, if patience is a weakness, it seems that instead of the kids helping with that issue, they test it. And they push and push and push until they find the boundary. And as the adult, we can either lash out (which rarely works), or we can change our approach. But of course, you can't accomplish this all on your own; both parents have to be practicing the same approach.

As far as the shutting down when he is angry.... I can totally relate to that. The problem with relationship problems is that it always takes two to tango. If he was working on his control issues (I say control because anger issues are really control issues), AND you were working on expressing your needs and feelings, then it will work. But again, you both have to be on board with that.
I too learned to walk on eggshells as a child and feel guilt. And I have been told all my life that I am too sensitive. The reality is that I was being mistreated and then in my adult life I found others to fill these roles so that I could continue my reality of walking on eggshells. It is a psychological pattern. And I think... that part of our own recovery has to do with breaking those patterns. Just as the RA is recovering and should be learning new skills to cope with life, we too should be learning new tools.
Finding an outlet is great! But there is also work to be done ;-)

DoubleDragons

My abusive parents always accused me of being "too sensitive" and often told me that I needed to get "thicker skin." I asked a therapist once if she thought I was "too sensitive." She said there is no such thing as "too sensitive". She said if I was wired to be less sensitive perhaps life would seem a little easier to me, but I am who I am and just because I feel strongly, does not mean that my feelings are wrong or that they should be negated.

Kboys

Thank you all for the wise words. I'm so grateful for all of you, always.

I would like to respond to each of your posts individually, but I'm off to Sesame Street

amy55

Hey, you and your kids have a really good time. You deserve it.

(((((((((((hugs))))))))))
amy

LexieCat

What leaped to mind when I read that was your responding, "I KNOW! It's just like when someone expects you to wash pants that have been HIDDEN. It's CRAZY!"

JK, of course I'm not suggesting you should have said that. But the thought made me smile.

OK, so things have gone from unbearable, last year, to low-grade unhappiness. Sill, that wears on a person. Sometimes the dull, constant throb sucks more out of you than the sudden, sharp pain . I think you can recognize and appreciate that things are less volatile than they were, and still find the constant unpleasantness wearing you down.

The one thing I'd like for you to try to do is to quit doubting yourself and your own accurate perceptions of reality. It doesn't sound to me at all as if you are over-dramatizing anything. Head up, eyes open. You're doing fine.

greens

I actually am "Too sensitive " and while it makes life difficult it wss nice to read " the highly sensitive person " can't remem the authors name . It made me feel less alone.

redatlanta

Then AH was upset because his work pants were not clean. I did all the laundry this weekend, but his pants were in a funny place… not in the laundry basket, so they didn’t get washed.
“It’s all right…. I guess I’ll just have to start doing my own laundry,”

My response - You know what? I think that's a great idea. He might get pissy - he is very passive aggressive. So give him what he asks for. There isn't anything to argue about, and you don't have to be nasty. It seems with n your dynamic you are blamed for, or assume the blame for a lot. Extricate yourself out of things to be blamed for it is possible to do that.

“I know today is going to be a cluster****… everybody’s going to want something from me. I’m tired of helping people…. And why do we need to leave at 3? It only takes an hour to get there…” I would most likely not respond at all, not even with ok. Can you turn the volume off in your head? Its a great ability. Instead of being on the defense of explaining why you have to leave at 3 I would put the responsibility back on him "ok, what time works best for you to leave". This is splitting hairs kind of stuff, but its damn annoying considering the morning. He wants to run the show RUN IT PAL.

Sometimes I wonder if people realize how naggy, bitchy, complaining, they are. I really think they don't see it sometimes I can't say that is the case here I don't know. Your communication dynamic needs to change so that you aren't nervous/waiting for blowup and he isn't b*tching so much.

Hope you guys had a good time at SS!

AnvilheadII

Then AH was upset because his work pants were not clean. I did all the laundry this weekend, but his pants were in a funny place… not in the laundry basket, so they didn’t get washed.

wait. he only has ONE pair of work pants????

that's like having one good pair of undies.

and he didn't even put them in the regular "wash me" place?

that is lame.

dandylion

Kboys......this is an interesting thread, I think.....

Lemongirl and redatlanta got me to thinking (and, remembering) about how relationships are a "dance" between two people----even if they aren't even consciously aware of it.

Ever watch a couple dance the tango?......especially the Argentine Tango (blush, blush.
Couples don't stay together long if they can't "dance" together.

Your husband can't really do what he "does" unless he has a person like yourself to do it to, or with.....
Some people would kick his ass to the curb with the first passive aggressive trick he tried to pull......and, then, guess what...he would be looking for a more accepting (different) dance partner.....

Kboys...I am not rambling about this to be critical of you----rather----to illustrate a point.

He ain't going to change to make you happy......so, if you want your life to change....you are going to have to be the agent of change....
That is the only change that you have any control over......

YOU HAVE TONS OF POWER.....I just don't think you have come to realize that, yet.......

dandylion

Kboys

Good morning, and thankyou for the responses. You all gave me a lot to think about, and always make me feel better

I've been thinking about the "relationship dance" too... and about my relationship with my xabf, who was also emotionally abusive... only in a much more overt way... not at all passive aggressive like AH. But somehow I was able to not let him affect me as much as I let AH affect me... especially as our relationship progressed. I remember him threatening that I would "never see my dog again" if I went out with my friends... so I just took the dog with me. And eventually he stopped making those types of threats, because that dance wasn't working.

Why can't I do the same with AH?

Anvil- ha, that made me laugh. Yes, he definitely needs a couple more pairs of pants.... that would solve one problem.

He brought up the pants thing again yesterday afternoon when we were getting ready to go to Sesame St. (which the kids loved!). He said, "I really wish my good pants were clean for tonight... they fit so much better.... these pants are garbage... I'm going to get my own basket and keep track of my own stuff."
My instinct then was to get defensive, explain again the reason why they didn't get washed.... and feel like an inadequate wife. Barf. But I didn't do that, I just said, like red suggested, "yeah, that's probably a good idea," and it was left at that.