ArtFriend

I know this is a big topic, but how does one forgive? It is a big stumbling block with me. I say I have forgiven, but in my heart, I know I haven't TRULY. They say you forgive those who have hurt you for yourself not the other person. Is forgiveness a process or a feeling or what? I still harbor a lot of anger and resentment. It is effecting to the point of possibly jeopardizing my sobriety.

Thoughts?

TroyW

There's a couple people I'll never truly forgive, one of which is actually a non-blood family member. I'll continue to be cordial towards that person for the benefit of the family, but I'll never forgive.

Then with a few others out there, I can forgive, but never forget.

Anna

For me, forgiving means I don't have to allow that person to hurt me any longer. As long as you don't forgive someone, you are giving away your power.

lilac0721

Hmm, that is a good question. I think for me, it is more of a process than an event.

site1Q84

I feel, most of the time, that when I don't forgive people it only ends up hurting me, not them. I'll also never fully understand other people, I don't think any of us can. I'll never know their exact reasoning or thinking, even if they try to explain it. I try to remember that everyone has their own issues, and that helps me be able to forgive them.

Like Troy said, there's a few people I will likely never forgive, but I don't let that effect me in a negative way. I think that some things you just need to learn from and move on.

ArtFriend

Thanks...

I guess what I am trying to get at is the concept of forgiveness. I don't get it for some reason. I want to forgive, but the anger remains. And like Anna said, I give away my power to the other person/place/thing. Maybe I don't have the ability to forgive??

site1Q84

I'm sure you do, maybe it just takes time to learn.

I think, like staying sober, it's something you have to really want.

Lily123

I think this sums it up pretty good. We will never be inside that persons head. At the same time we can't expect everyone to understand us fully either. It's a lot easier just to let go sometimes.

tomsteve

I look at the other person as being sick. Sometimes I have had to pray for the willingness to forgive. Sometimes I haven't wanted to pray and prayed twice as hard.
Concept-: an idea of what something is or how it works
Forgive- stop feeling anger towards; stop blaming;
That's a pretty simple concept, isn't it?

This is why I chose forgiveness:
"The moment you start to resent a person, you become his slave. He controls your dreams, absorbs your digestion, robs you of your peace of mind and goodwill, and takes away the pleasure of your work. He ruins your religion and nullifies your prayers. You cannot take a vacation without his going along. He destroys your freedom of mind and hounds you wherever you go. There is no way to escape the person you resent. He is with you when you are awake. He invades your privacy when you sleep. He is close beside you when you drive your car and when you are on the job. You can never have efficiency or happiness. He influences even the tone of your voice. He requires you to take medicine for indigestion, headaches, and loss of energy. He even steals your last moment of consciousness before you go to sleep. So, if you want to be a slave, harbor your resentments!"

ArtFriend

Like I said, I WANT to forgive, but I find it impossible. If it were as simple as saying I choose to forgive, and really mean it, I would have done that years back. And some of my anger is directed at intangibles, not a particular person.

ArtFriend

Oh well... never mind. I should post this somewhere else I think. The topic is probably too esoteric for the newcomer section. Thanks guys!

Inchworm

Forgiving has more to do with self love , I think, ArtFriend. We reach a point of compassion and love and forgiveness for ourselves first. It's easy to give it away then. And, it is a process that we do day by day, minute by minute. It can be present and then disappear just as suddenly.

strategery

I have found forgiveness to be a process and that it takes time. One of the things I have had to really work on with sobriety, is my thinking. If my thoughts start dwelling into the negative, I have to turn those thoughts around. The negative thoughts not only feed my AV, but seems to breed even more negative thinking. One of the things that has really helped is stopping these thought processes and making gratitude lists.

BTW your rainbow kitty butterfly avatar always makes me smile.

Spacegoat

Big topic alright. I see that a lot here can relate and that's reassuring. I'm in a similar boat as you ArtFriend, it's a very confusing one for me.

It's not something that I haven't done countless times before either, some questions are: how do you forgive people who never apologized?

Who never acknowledged what they did, let alone ask forgiveness. Somebody said it is about forgiving yourself but I am even worse at that.

ArtFriend

Thanks Strategery - the rainbow-butterfly-kitty is also a unicorn! You can't see the horn in the small pic.

ArtFriend

I don't think forgiving is about forgiving yourself, but you forgive FOR yourself. Make sense? It is not about the other person. And I think one can forgive even tho the offender never apologized or acknowledged what they did. But, like you, it is hard to come to terms sometimes.

This link may help Strat -

Understanding forgiveness | This Emotional Life

strategery

That is seriously awesome!

EndGameNYC

Your anger is what keeps you attached in a very powerful way to those who mistreat and abuse you. For some people, the anger is repressed so as not to deal with it in any meaningful way. No one wants to admit or to feel as though they've been abused. In either instance, resentment builds as we continue to degrade ourselves, suffering continuing abuse even when, and often worse than when, the other person isn't there.

Our anger is often grounded in our refusal to accept the fact that others will not accept us as who we are or who otherwise refuse to behave in a manner that suits us. Anger is about not getting what we want; rage is about not getting what we want and still wanting it.

Forgiveness is a process that not always, but often, begins with a decision to no longer allow other people to mistreat us. But it doesn't end there. Saying that I forgive someone without the necessary shift in feelings is nothing more than compliance...acting as though and/or telling ourselves we are a certain way, a way we convince ourselves that we are supposed to be, without matching the honesty of our feelings.

The process of forgiveness is often mediated by detaching from abusive others, physically and emotionally, and instead working to forgive ourselves for what we've allowed others to do to us, or for what we've done to ourselves.

Pretty much what Anna said.

ArtFriend

EndGame - Thank you. As always you have great insight. One of the biggest sources of my anger is my sister being killed on 9/11. That is when I really started to drink heavily. Although it didn't happen to me per se, the pain was almost as intense. And who do I blame? The terrorists? The govt? My sister for being there? Who do I forgive? It remains something that continues to stymie me. Maybe I blame myself for not being able to save her. Should I forgive myself?

EndGameNYC

I don't mean to dodge your questions, AF, but I can't provide you with the kind of help you may need. Grief is often complicated by a range of internal factors that need to be acknowledged and addressed. Acceptance is often the first step, though many of us need assistance in getting there. But, yes, I do believe that it's important for you to find a way to forgive yourself. Without this, you may be faced with a life filled with fighting ghosts and then, as you've suggested, turning to the bottle during and after stretches of emotional exhaustion.

Death shakes most of us, a stark and unforgiving reminder of how little control we actually have. It makes even less sense to us when there's no apparent rhyme or reason for the loss. No one to blame. No explanation. No resolution. No closure. But it doesn't have to remain that way.

Our own mortality drives us to achieve, to make something of our lives. Or it pushes us into the shadows, leaving us afraid to move in any particular direction in life, lest we choose a life that just isn't "right" for us. So many people opt for lives of quiet desperation, embracing what is only apparent or superficial security rather than risk meaning or fulfillment. Some people view grief as a lifelong process within the context that we and everyone else who we know and love will eventually die. Others hold that death is a challenge that each of us must face, and that the remedy to grieving our own death is to live an authentic and meaningful life.

An incomplete grieving process can adversely affect us for years after the actual loss. Few recovering alcoholics escape the experience of loss in their lifetime, and I believe its important to work through issues of grief and loss in a supportive environment. Most skilled professionals will recommend a support group, even when they're seeing you one-on-one.

I do hope you find the answers that you're searching for.

http://www.dentonisd.org/cms/lib/TX2...0Resources.pdf

GriefShare - Grief Recovery Support Groups - GriefShare

?