ACoA Traits You Don’t Identify With

Old 04-19-2015, 05:17 AM
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ACoA Traits You Don’t Identify With

I’m new to the ACoA thing in the sense that I just started reading the Geringer Woititz book. When I look at the list (not sure if this one is the official Laundry List or was the building blocks of it), I find traits I don’t identify with. I know I don’t have to check off all the boxes to be part of this club, but it feels weird to me in a way.

I’ve listed below some of the ones that don’t ring true for me or at least have some kind of a spectrum (numbered as the traits are numbered in the book copy I have). I’d love to hear your thoughts about the traits you don’t identify with (if you don’t) and how that makes you feel. I can't post links yet (still new! ) but can maybe type up the full list in a bit if people need it for reference. Thanks!

****

2. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty following a project though from beginning to end. [It depends on the situation. Work responsibilities, no way. I’m on top of it. Personal projects, maybe.]

3. Adult children of alcoholics lie when it would be just as easy to tell the truth. [No way. My wife and I joke that my nickname is Honest Abe. I’m not saying I never lie about anything ever, but lying doesn’t feel easy to me, so I don’t do it if the truth feels easy.]

5. Adult children of alcoholics have difficulty having fun. [I don’t know about this one. I’m still mulling it over. Maybe that means it’s true for me?]

13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsivity leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess. [No way. Maybe I’ve got way other stuff working against this trait, like the super-responsibility thing, but I do not consider myself impulsive in the slightest or think anyone who knows me on any level would describe me as such. Locking myself into a course of action? Yes. Without serious consideration? No.]
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:35 AM
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Crud. Sorry for the double post. I just noticed the sticky about the traits. Duh. I apologize for the bad forum etiquette. I haven't slept much lately. Y'all know or can find the traits ... I'll go check out the sticky. Thanks!
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:39 AM
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Don't apologize. It wasn't bad forum etiquette. Even the 13 traits listed isnt quite right. I believe The Laundry List actually has 14 items. If memory serves I identified with 12 out of 14. The ones I didn't identify with didn't bother me. What mattered to me was that what I saw as defects on my part were actually a result of poor parenting. They weren't my fault. I wasn't merely a defective person. I had been harmed by a bad upbringing. I was grateful.

Try not to get caught up in what doesn't resonate and instead embrace what does.
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Old 04-19-2015, 11:15 AM
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The forum etiquette thing doesn't bother me at all I haven't looked over the list of traits in a long time, since I found SR probably (O, Happy Day).

I include in my recovery an identification with the ACOA experience, the ACON experience (adult children of narcissists), and codependence (for which there is, yes, CODA, Codependence Anonymous). That's a laundry list and I use those acronyms as shorthand for a whole experience / an approach to my story and recovery rather than a list of diagnoses / keywords to google to find people dealing with the same things (SR is my ACOA fam, whom I value very highly). I'm not explaining it easily yet, it's multi faceted, I'm still figuring it out myself. But the sense of urgency I first felt in Figuring It All Out is settling down.

I'm really glad you prompted me to look the list over again. I developed most of the traits in the last few years, as an adult (I'm in my early thirties), when my mom became an alcoholic/pill abuser.

Codependence, ACOA, ACON... whatever tools we develop to deal with the dysfunctional, addicted, unstable, toxic people in our lives, tools honed on the battlefield by children are not well-designed or meant to be used long-term. They might get the job done for a while but they will break and injure the user and are ugly themselves. I'm rambling!

I never thought of myself as someone who couldn't have fun but it's true I think, I'm really constrained! My "fun" is often being a hanger-onner of other peoples' fun. I constantly judge myself, wonder what a whole host of people would say with how I am spending my time... I have literally been using coloring books (elaborate ones for grown ups ) lately as a way to give myself permission to just be slightly creative without beating myself up.
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Old 04-20-2015, 10:07 AM
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Let's see. Interestingly enough, you've picked the items in the list that didn't resonate with me either. What has been a real challenge for me is to recognize that I was in an alcoholic home. It's weird because my dad goes to work every day, has never driven drunk (to my knowledge - i could be wrong!), and seems on the outside to be fine. Yet, I commiserate with what other Al-anon and ACOA peeps say - there must be something to that.

Difficulty following through on project? not an issue
Lie? nope
difficulty having fun? I don't think so
impulsive? no, the opposite

However, at the same time, what I find fascinating is that I have changed my mind about my affinity for an item in a list. Specifically the one for Al-Anon and growing up in an alcoholic home. Things I thought didn't fit before - fit now.

Here's something that spun me around (flipped my world upside down). I tell the truth ALL THE TIME it would seem. However, when I did a 4th step inventory, I eventually did find a major component of my behavior was dishonesty. I found it through my perpetual people-pleasing. How does that work? Well, when someone does something I feel offended by, I want to protect them/myself from their feelings of guilt/discomfort/frustration when I tell them about it. I would lie and say nothing is wrong. Or...I would just do silent treatment for a while because I was so angry, but didn't feel comfortable expressing that anger (or didn't know how?). Thus, I have long lists of circumstances where I put things under the rug and said things were OK, when really, they were not. Every time a sibling of mine said something cruel to me and we didn't resolve or make peace with the issue, my sense of trust in that person eroded. Eventually, when I was on the other side (against them), I was now in a position to believe that I could not trust that person to behave appropriately (he ripped on sister, mother, brother, etc - why not me?). There was no trust left there. However, I NEVER once told him that was happening. Maybe I wasn't quite clear about it myself? Well, anyways, I ended up just abruptly stopping the relationship, I was sick and tired of his behavior and I had reached the end of my rope. The fact that he was flabbergasted and totally bewildered by it was partly my fault. I had not been honest with him about how I was feeling with his prior behaviors in gossip and judgment towards other family-of-origin members.

Long story short, I do lie, but probably NOT when the truth would be just as easy. I tell a lie through omission when I don't express frustration or feelings of offense when I am upset with someone I love. To protect them and me. Thus, I tell a lie, when the truth feels EXTREMELY difficult (no...please don't get angry). It's like I'm trying to control the situation into a calm, serene place - but I can't actually do that. That's where my dishonesty shows up.

NOW - with all of my recovery, I am starting to be more honest about how I'm feeling. HOLY cr** is it a wake-up call for people - and not in a good way. The reactions to my new honesty have not been terribly great. But, in my opinion, I am doing both them and myself a disfavor by not being honest about how I'm feeling. If I feel disrespected, abandoned, betrayed, etc - YES, I will tell them, now. Otherwise, I turn that stuff inward (anger inward is extremely dangerous to my health).

Long diatribe. Anyways, I can relate to some of the items not fitting.

However, when I first went on to the AL-Anon website and looked to see if it was for me, there was a section on growing up in an alcoholic home. It had a list of questions. I went down one by one and DEFINITELY checked a whole bunch, but not all. THus, I thought, oh, maybe my score will be low enough that I don't need this (YES, I DID THINK THIS!). Then, when I got to the end and read further, guess what it said! -->

If you checked off ONE of the above items, then Al-anon is right for you. JUST ONE!

CR**! I needed to go! Full of shame, doubt, anxiety, etc, I went. 1st meeting had me in tears - I was in the right place. Still am.
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:12 PM
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Only two don't resonate with me, but if I dug deep enough they probably do. I'd say the laundry list is/was me to a "T".

"9. Adult children of alcoholics constantly seek approval and affirmation."

I have never cared what anyone thought of me in the least. I don't see this. But this might be from my early conviction that my parents were nuts and I never cared what they thought because I knew they were nuts. So my approval was self based.

"13. Adult children of alcoholics are impulsive. They tend to lock themselves into a course of action without giving serious consideration to alternative behaviors or possible consequences. This impulsively leads to confusion, self-loathing and loss of control over their environment. In addition, they spend an excessive amount of energy cleaning up the mess."

The only area this could possibly apply to is overeating. Otherwise I tend to always look at the consequences, one my sayings is "play it out to the end" to see if I should do something or not.
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:19 PM
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I don't relate to #3 and since I quit drinking, I don't really relate to #13 anymore. I'm working on #5 Ha! "Working" on learning how to have fun Ok, that's telling, isn't it? And I'm definitely seeing great strides in the area of #2 since getting sober as well.
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Old 04-20-2015, 01:09 PM
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Ok. I will confess when it comes to being impulsive I am. If it is an emotional type thing. Like if I get get into a disagreement with someone I will cut them out of my life. That's it. No talking about it. Finite.

What's fun? :p

I was an alcoholic and I married an ACOA.

Getting things done. Fugedaboutit.

I have to check the list and see if there are actually any I don't identify with
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Old 04-20-2015, 01:11 PM
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Based on the 13 characteristics listed here in the stickies I identify with them all. Probably the closest I have ever been to an overachiever.
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Old 04-20-2015, 01:29 PM
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Thotful, I really related to your diatribe. Leaving things unsaid, too many times again. Trying to will away my own needs (my own personality?) in order to create a stable environment.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyOwl View Post
.... not sure if this one is the official Laundry List or was the building blocks of it....
The building blocks of the list, and much of everything ACoA-ish, is in the books by Claudia Black and Stephanie Brown; "It will never happen to me." That was back in 1980, since then there have been _hundreds_ of books for us ACoA's. The first couple decades every book had it's own "laundry list", one book actually had _100_ items listed.

I'm not sure where they got the list we have here on SR. The authors of all the various lists try to be as generic and inclusive as possible in order to appeal to the largest possible number of peeps. It is not expected that _everybody_ will identify with _all_ the items.

Originally Posted by LadyOwl View Post
....but it feels weird to me in a way. ....
Yeah, me too. One of my "ACoA issues" is a need to be perfect. Completely, totally, no excuses perfect. I know it's an issue because who would want to be perfect about being emotionally injured? Like does anybody want to have the perfect cancer?

Not checking off _all_ the items in the list makes me feel like I don't belong here, like I am somehow an imposter. Naturally, feeling like I don't belong _anywhere_ and that I am "faking it" through life is another of my "issues". Which means I can get myself in some truly complicated tangles of logic just trying to check off 13 little items on a list.

No wonder I belong here

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Old 04-20-2015, 06:34 PM
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All of them don't apply to me all the time, but when I originally read that when I got here, I got such a relieved feeling. Not because it gave me an excuse but because it gave me a reason for my behaviors and I finally felt powerful enough to make the changes. I'm not perfect by any means-I'm still struggling. I am able to acknowledge that today though.
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:50 AM
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Denial can be strong until we start the real work and realize we fit more than we think we do. And then some traits are different based on our individual experiences. The one I find amusing is not caring what people think about me. I say I don't, and it's true... until someone passively unfriends me on Facebook or seems to just avoid talking to me. Then I start overanalyzing why it happened, yada yada yada. Get in my face? I couldn't care less. Passively just stop talking to me? Major anxiety.
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:03 AM
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I deleted my FB account awhile back for other reasons and I totally recognize that I have a lot less of those feelings NWGRITS. That is so interesting that I just put that together.
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes View Post

I'm not sure where they got the list we have here on SR.
Not saying this is the original source, although I believe it to be, but the '13 characteristics' included on this site is certainly included in a book by Janet G Woititz, in her (1983 book) 'characteristics of ACOA'.

... Just saying.

Also, I think its in your book list in the stickies.
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyOwl View Post
I’m new to the ACoA thing in the sense that I just started reading the Geringer Woititz book. When I look at the list (not sure if this one is the official Laundry List or was the building blocks of it), I find traits I don’t identify with. I know I don’t have to check off all the boxes to be part of this club, but it feels weird to me in a way.
I like the tradition (3) in ACA which is "the only requirement for membership is the desire to recover from the effects of growing up in an alcoholic or otherwise dysfunctional household". On that basis, I qualify as does anyone else from my perspective...

The 13 characteristics and the Laundry list are different animals but there is some cross over.

I identify almost entirely with the Laundry List and like you I have some the 13 that are less relevant to me. The Laundry list traits I now use, to an extent, as a barometer for my wellbeing i.e. if I'm acting out in one of the traits, or one of the traits is causing me problems then it means to me that I need to look inside.

There are occassions in my life when the 13 characteristics and the 14 traits of the laundry list are distant memories. There are other times when I have a vague sense that they are within me and still others (thankfully not so much today) where the whole thing is 'JUST ME'. Aaaarrrgh, this signifies danger for me. It means I am 'surviving' or reacting, not living or acting.

... Just to add to the mix in the big red book of ACoA, there is a section on "the other laundry list" which is the opposite of the original laundry list e.g. "if we feared angry people as the first trait suggests, we could also become them"

To me the traits are but symptoms of an underlying problem. They are not me as in my true self, but are my false (or codependent) self.

I love the bit at the end of ACoA literature known as 'The Problem' (Laundry list in prose) which says "This is a description, not an indictment". I've stolen that phrase many, many times.
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Old 04-22-2015, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by makomago View Post
... a book by Janet G Woititz, in her (1983 book) 'characteristics of ACOA'.....
I'm looking, I'm looking. Not finding it yet but am not giving up

Mike
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:22 PM
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This is the ACOA list that I go off of, it's from al-anon:

1. Do you constantly seek approval and affirmation?
2. Do you fail to recognize your accomplishments?
3. Do you fear criticism?
4. Do you overextend yourself?
5. Have you had problems with your own compulsive behavior?
6. Do you have a need for perfection?
7. Are you uneasy when your life is going smoothly, continually anticipating problems?
8. Do you feel more alive in the midst of a crisis?
9. Do you still feel responsible for others, as you did for the problem drinker in your life?
10. Do you care for others easily, yet find it difficult to care for yourself?
11. Do you isolate yourself from other people?
12. Do you respond with fear to authority figures and angry people?
13. Do you feel that individuals and society in general are taking advantage of you?
14. Do you have trouble with intimate relationships?
15. Do you confuse pity with love, as you did with the problem drinker?
16. Do you attract and/or seek people who tend to be compulsive and/or abusive?
17. Do you cling to relationships because you are afraid of being alone?
18. Do you often mistrust your own feelings and the feelings expressed by others?
19. Do you find it difficult to identify and express your emotions?
20. Do you think someone's drinking may have affected you?
The only ones that I wafer on are 10 and 15. I love when life runs smoothly and I don't predict problems or wait for the other shoe to drop. Also, I don't confuse pity with love.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertEyes View Post
I'm looking, I'm looking. Not finding it yet but am not giving up

Mike
This book is available on iBooks, I have it too. I began reading it (yes, I have problems finishing some things from beginning to end) and so much of what I read resonated with me. But not all things. I feel like ACOA stuff resonates more with me that codependency stuff. Codependency No More was like reading about my best friend and my husband and my mom more than it was reading about me.
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Old 04-24-2015, 12:14 AM
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15. Do you confuse pity with love, as you did with the problem drinker?
Something about this phrasing confuses me - are they saying, 'you felt sorry for the drinker in your life so you stuck by them, and that was supposed to be 'love'?

I think the closest I come to confusing pity and love is that, in my worst moments, I wonder if mr. seasaw feels sorry for me and that's why he keeps me around. I SAID MY WORST MOMENTS i know it's not true. good ol' depression. i think that's #15 and #s 2, 6, 7 11 and 18 at the same time.
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