Dry drunk husband wants a divorce
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Minnesota
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Dry drunk husband wants a divorce
Six years ago, my husband got sober with the help of AA. He went to meetings 4-5 times a week.
After our little boy was born four years ago, he attended fewer but he was still going.
But over the last year and a half, he's hardly been going at all. It's been hit and miss.
I didn't think anything of it until last fall. I noticed significant differences in his behavior. He'd become very focused on himself. He talked about himself endlessly. He wasn't interested in anything I had to say. He was spending a lot of time by himself in his office in the basement. I don't know what he was doing down there. Surfing the internet? Watching movies? Smoking cigarettes? He disappeared a lot. I'd think he was in the other room but he'd gone outside or downstairs to smoke. It seemed like he was never around when I needed his help with our son, and he got mad when I asked him where he'd gone or when I was exasperated that he'd disappeared again.
He also became extremely touchy and hypersensitive to anything he thought was a criticism. He stopped sleeping in our bed. He said he was too tired to have sex with me. He was spending a lot of time alone. I know he wasn't drinking. He wasn't having an affair with someone.
Actually, maybe the person he was having an affair with was himself.
Last fall was a bad time. I felt like I was living with a teenage boy, and I did not handle the conflicts we had well. I was angry with him a lot. I kept track of the number of times he flaked out or dropped the ball about one thing or another. It was driving me crazy because I felt like I couldn't count on him. I told him I want to be married to someone who has my back.
Then my father died. A few days after his death, I was sitting alone on the couch. I was very sad and must've looked sad because my husband said, "What's wrong?" I had to remind him that my father died. It was like he'd forgotten.
We started talking about getting a divorce.
I reached out to a friend who's in recovery and that's how I learned that even though a person isn't drinking, if he's not actively working his program, he can still have the "isms." I had no idea that was a thing. My friend suggested I go to Alanon, and I was all for it, but there weren't any meetings during times I could do.
One night, I stayed up all night thinking about how I didn't want a divorce. I wanted the marriage to work. So I wrote my husband a long letter that lasted all the things I love about him and all the reasons I want to make the marriage work. My husband said he wanted to work on things, too. He started going to meetings again. A few weeks later, things were so much better. It was like a switch had been flipped.
Over the last few months, though, he hasn't been going to meetings as much.
Three weeks ago, his father died.
This past Sunday, we had an argument: he didn't do something important that he'd promised to take care of. I was very frustrated and I know that I overreacted. On Monday, I apologized for letting my stress get the best of me, for saying things I didn't mean, and for overreacting. He said he didn't want to talk about it. For the rest of the day on Monday, he was distance and standoffish with me but when we were in front of people, he acted like everything was fine.
On Tuesday, I asked if he was ready to talk, and he said he wasn't. He said he needed more time to think. He said he needed to make a decision and he needed to think about it.
I asked if the decision he needed to make was about us. He said he didn't want to talk about it. I apologized again for overreacting on Sunday. I said that I knew I needed to work on letting go of old grudges. He agreed. I said that I loved him and I wanted to be good to him and I was willing to work hard on saving this marriage. He was sort of haughty. He said, "That's very kind."
I said I thought our marriage could be saved. He said that there were "patterns of behavior that were worth reflecting on" and he needed time to reflect. He didn't say what those patterns were but he was obviously talking about me. I had to bite my tongue to keep from asking how old grudges are different from patterns of behavior, and why I have to let go of grudges while he can reflect on patterns of behavior. I figured there was no point in arguing with him and I didn't want an already tense situation to escalate.
Last night, I got a sitter so I could finally to go to an Alanon meeting but when I got there, the wrong time was posted on the website. Today I called a therapist who specializes in addiction but she doesn't have any spots until May 11. I scheduled the appointment but my god, I really need some help now. I know that my husband is grieving, and grief is lonely and hard. I think that it's not helping that he's not going to meetings and doesn't have a strong connection with his sponsor. I've been reading about codependence and detaching with love and the ways that I contributed to our problems. All of it makes sense intellectually, though I'm not quite there with it emotionally.
I just don't know what to do right now, this minute, tonight, tomorrow or the next day. I'm scared of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. I don't want to say or do anything that will make this situation worse. I feel like he's purposely hardening himself against me. When I walk into a room, he leaves. He wouldn't eat the meal I'd cooked. I'm forcing myself to not badger him or pursue him but being treated like I'm invisible is very painful.
I'd like to say that I don't think it's a good idea to make life-changing decisions while you're grieving. But I don't know if it's okay to say that or if it will set him off. In the past, I would have said something but now I don't feel like I should.
I want to be sensitive to his grief but I also don't know what's reasonable.
Last Friday, he sent me a sweet email. On Monday, he wants a divorce. It's pretty confusing. Maybe he's felt this way for a long time and just never told me? I have no idea. I'm worried. I'm scared. I'm trying to stay in the moment and not obsess about the future but it's very hard to not worry that my husband is going to swing a wrecking ball through our lives.
I just don't know what to do while I wait for him to do whatever's next. I feel like a crazy person. I would love to hear from someone who's been through this.
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
After our little boy was born four years ago, he attended fewer but he was still going.
But over the last year and a half, he's hardly been going at all. It's been hit and miss.
I didn't think anything of it until last fall. I noticed significant differences in his behavior. He'd become very focused on himself. He talked about himself endlessly. He wasn't interested in anything I had to say. He was spending a lot of time by himself in his office in the basement. I don't know what he was doing down there. Surfing the internet? Watching movies? Smoking cigarettes? He disappeared a lot. I'd think he was in the other room but he'd gone outside or downstairs to smoke. It seemed like he was never around when I needed his help with our son, and he got mad when I asked him where he'd gone or when I was exasperated that he'd disappeared again.
He also became extremely touchy and hypersensitive to anything he thought was a criticism. He stopped sleeping in our bed. He said he was too tired to have sex with me. He was spending a lot of time alone. I know he wasn't drinking. He wasn't having an affair with someone.
Actually, maybe the person he was having an affair with was himself.
Last fall was a bad time. I felt like I was living with a teenage boy, and I did not handle the conflicts we had well. I was angry with him a lot. I kept track of the number of times he flaked out or dropped the ball about one thing or another. It was driving me crazy because I felt like I couldn't count on him. I told him I want to be married to someone who has my back.
Then my father died. A few days after his death, I was sitting alone on the couch. I was very sad and must've looked sad because my husband said, "What's wrong?" I had to remind him that my father died. It was like he'd forgotten.
We started talking about getting a divorce.
I reached out to a friend who's in recovery and that's how I learned that even though a person isn't drinking, if he's not actively working his program, he can still have the "isms." I had no idea that was a thing. My friend suggested I go to Alanon, and I was all for it, but there weren't any meetings during times I could do.
One night, I stayed up all night thinking about how I didn't want a divorce. I wanted the marriage to work. So I wrote my husband a long letter that lasted all the things I love about him and all the reasons I want to make the marriage work. My husband said he wanted to work on things, too. He started going to meetings again. A few weeks later, things were so much better. It was like a switch had been flipped.
Over the last few months, though, he hasn't been going to meetings as much.
Three weeks ago, his father died.
This past Sunday, we had an argument: he didn't do something important that he'd promised to take care of. I was very frustrated and I know that I overreacted. On Monday, I apologized for letting my stress get the best of me, for saying things I didn't mean, and for overreacting. He said he didn't want to talk about it. For the rest of the day on Monday, he was distance and standoffish with me but when we were in front of people, he acted like everything was fine.
On Tuesday, I asked if he was ready to talk, and he said he wasn't. He said he needed more time to think. He said he needed to make a decision and he needed to think about it.
I asked if the decision he needed to make was about us. He said he didn't want to talk about it. I apologized again for overreacting on Sunday. I said that I knew I needed to work on letting go of old grudges. He agreed. I said that I loved him and I wanted to be good to him and I was willing to work hard on saving this marriage. He was sort of haughty. He said, "That's very kind."
I said I thought our marriage could be saved. He said that there were "patterns of behavior that were worth reflecting on" and he needed time to reflect. He didn't say what those patterns were but he was obviously talking about me. I had to bite my tongue to keep from asking how old grudges are different from patterns of behavior, and why I have to let go of grudges while he can reflect on patterns of behavior. I figured there was no point in arguing with him and I didn't want an already tense situation to escalate.
Last night, I got a sitter so I could finally to go to an Alanon meeting but when I got there, the wrong time was posted on the website. Today I called a therapist who specializes in addiction but she doesn't have any spots until May 11. I scheduled the appointment but my god, I really need some help now. I know that my husband is grieving, and grief is lonely and hard. I think that it's not helping that he's not going to meetings and doesn't have a strong connection with his sponsor. I've been reading about codependence and detaching with love and the ways that I contributed to our problems. All of it makes sense intellectually, though I'm not quite there with it emotionally.
I just don't know what to do right now, this minute, tonight, tomorrow or the next day. I'm scared of saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. I don't want to say or do anything that will make this situation worse. I feel like he's purposely hardening himself against me. When I walk into a room, he leaves. He wouldn't eat the meal I'd cooked. I'm forcing myself to not badger him or pursue him but being treated like I'm invisible is very painful.
I'd like to say that I don't think it's a good idea to make life-changing decisions while you're grieving. But I don't know if it's okay to say that or if it will set him off. In the past, I would have said something but now I don't feel like I should.
I want to be sensitive to his grief but I also don't know what's reasonable.
Last Friday, he sent me a sweet email. On Monday, he wants a divorce. It's pretty confusing. Maybe he's felt this way for a long time and just never told me? I have no idea. I'm worried. I'm scared. I'm trying to stay in the moment and not obsess about the future but it's very hard to not worry that my husband is going to swing a wrecking ball through our lives.
I just don't know what to do while I wait for him to do whatever's next. I feel like a crazy person. I would love to hear from someone who's been through this.
Does this sound familiar to anyone?
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 588
I have no experience in this. But my advice is, whatever happens, take care of yourself first! Read alanon literature or books on addiction. It's not too early to start thinking about finances and what being single means for YOU. Start getting in touch with lawyers. He may change his mind, he may not. But you have to have a plan. Pray if you are a praying person. Im so sorry that you are going through this. (((Hugs)))
totfit
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,273
No such think as a "dry drunk". These are normal personality traits for better or worse, but has nothing to do with whether he drank excessively in the past or not. I hate that you are going through this, but we don't have to always label behavior. If he is "not drunk or drinking" he should at least have credit for that.
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
Hi Lana, I agree with totfit that this sounds like who he is, not necessarily stemming from him not drinking. I'm sorry to say this, but it sounds like he might have checked out of your marriage a while ago. It's like he doesn't even want to try, and in refusing to accept your 2 apologies he's determined to find fault with you.
I'm also fairly suspicious about him spending so long down in the basement with his computer. It might well be that he's communicating with someone else. I don't want to generalise, but from what I've seen, it's unusual for men to leave unless they have someone to go to.
I'm sorry to be so frank but please prepare yourself for the worst (from your POV). You've done what you can, and running after him is just handing him more power. He has to make a decision; leave him to it and look after yourself with dignity. I don't think AA is going to be yours or his saviour this time.
I'm also fairly suspicious about him spending so long down in the basement with his computer. It might well be that he's communicating with someone else. I don't want to generalise, but from what I've seen, it's unusual for men to leave unless they have someone to go to.
I'm sorry to be so frank but please prepare yourself for the worst (from your POV). You've done what you can, and running after him is just handing him more power. He has to make a decision; leave him to it and look after yourself with dignity. I don't think AA is going to be yours or his saviour this time.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
I'd like to say that I don't think it's a good idea to make life-changing decisions while you're grieving. But I don't know if it's okay to say that or if it will set him off. I
No, I don't think I would mention that. He is a grown up and can make his own decisions even if the timing isn't the best. I agree with you that deciding to divorce while dealing with a parental loss is not when someone is in their right mind.
Yet, the problems you have been having have been going on for a long time well before his father and your father passed away.
Here is my advice - stop focusing so much on him. You seem to be pushing him to make decisions he isn't ready to make. The more you push the more he will resist. it does sound like he is struggling to decide whether to stay in the marriage or not whereas you have already decided to make a go of it. This is a crappy situation because you are the one left in limbo waiting on someone else to do something with no idea about what they will do.
There is such a thing as being a dry drunk. I am not sure if your husband is exhibiting those behavioral traits or if its as FeelingGreat said that he has already checked out of the marriage. What I do know is that his behavior as a spouse is unacceptable, and is raising some serious red flags. When people make these kinds of drastic personality and behavior changes there is a reason, and its usually not good.
My advice is to stop with notes, stop with the emails, stop with the questions, and you decide for you what is best. Is this a great situation for you? Is this the way you want to live your life? is this person demonstrating respectable behavior toward you? No No, and NO.
Take back your power you have handed every bit of it over to him. Contact another therapist perhaps a marriage counselor would be a better choice here than an addiction specialist.
Good luck to you sorry for what's happening.
No, I don't think I would mention that. He is a grown up and can make his own decisions even if the timing isn't the best. I agree with you that deciding to divorce while dealing with a parental loss is not when someone is in their right mind.
Yet, the problems you have been having have been going on for a long time well before his father and your father passed away.
Here is my advice - stop focusing so much on him. You seem to be pushing him to make decisions he isn't ready to make. The more you push the more he will resist. it does sound like he is struggling to decide whether to stay in the marriage or not whereas you have already decided to make a go of it. This is a crappy situation because you are the one left in limbo waiting on someone else to do something with no idea about what they will do.
There is such a thing as being a dry drunk. I am not sure if your husband is exhibiting those behavioral traits or if its as FeelingGreat said that he has already checked out of the marriage. What I do know is that his behavior as a spouse is unacceptable, and is raising some serious red flags. When people make these kinds of drastic personality and behavior changes there is a reason, and its usually not good.
My advice is to stop with notes, stop with the emails, stop with the questions, and you decide for you what is best. Is this a great situation for you? Is this the way you want to live your life? is this person demonstrating respectable behavior toward you? No No, and NO.
Take back your power you have handed every bit of it over to him. Contact another therapist perhaps a marriage counselor would be a better choice here than an addiction specialist.
Good luck to you sorry for what's happening.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
You said, “He wasn't having an affair with someone.”
From the way you describe his behavior, I wonder about that.
Another person posted, “I don't want to generalise, but from what I've seen, it's unusual for men to leave unless they have someone to go to.”
That’s been my observation too.
Best to you.
From the way you describe his behavior, I wonder about that.
Another person posted, “I don't want to generalise, but from what I've seen, it's unusual for men to leave unless they have someone to go to.”
That’s been my observation too.
Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 157
HI,
I do not agree that there is no such thing as a dry drunk. I lived it . Same thing , when I met my xbf 10 years ago he was active in AA, he was a totally different person. He stopped going to AA and the alcoholic behaviors started. What once was a healthy emotionally available man became a self centered unreliable person I didn't know. I left my xbf last year, we tried to make it work. I have been going to Alanon for a year, focusing on my side of the street. I changed the dance , he did not like it. I was firm with my boundarys and quit reacting to his hurtful behaviors. I would tell him he hurt me , but did not engage with him , he could not deflect onto me , the switch and change stopped . He broke our relationship off two weeks ago. Please focus on yourself , and know that you cannot help him or change his mind. Surrender and acceptance were the key for my peace. Hugs to you , I know how hard it is.
I do not agree that there is no such thing as a dry drunk. I lived it . Same thing , when I met my xbf 10 years ago he was active in AA, he was a totally different person. He stopped going to AA and the alcoholic behaviors started. What once was a healthy emotionally available man became a self centered unreliable person I didn't know. I left my xbf last year, we tried to make it work. I have been going to Alanon for a year, focusing on my side of the street. I changed the dance , he did not like it. I was firm with my boundarys and quit reacting to his hurtful behaviors. I would tell him he hurt me , but did not engage with him , he could not deflect onto me , the switch and change stopped . He broke our relationship off two weeks ago. Please focus on yourself , and know that you cannot help him or change his mind. Surrender and acceptance were the key for my peace. Hugs to you , I know how hard it is.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 157
"There is such a thing as being a dry drunk. I am not sure if your husband is exhibiting those behavioral traits or if its as FeelingGreat said that he has already checked out of the marriage. What I do know is that his behavior as a spouse is unacceptable, and is raising some serious red flags. When people make these kinds of drastic personality and behavior changes there is a reason, and its usually not good."
Redlanta ! thank you !
Redlanta ! thank you !
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
In my own experience, I "checked out" of my first marriage emotionally long before I told my husband I wanted a divorce. It's a process, and described very well in a book that got me through two divorces and a breakup of a LTR: "Uncoupling: Turning Points in Intimate Relationships" by Diane Vaughan. One partner is usually the initiator of a breakup, and the other one hasn't a clue. It's not that the initiator is being deliberately deceptive (most of the time), but it takes time to figure out what is really going on and what is wrong.
I do think that trying to hang on to a partner who wants out only prolongs the pain. I agree that talking with a lawyer to protect your own interests would be a good move.
I'm sorry you're hurting.
I do think that trying to hang on to a partner who wants out only prolongs the pain. I agree that talking with a lawyer to protect your own interests would be a good move.
I'm sorry you're hurting.
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,022
I agree with Lexi on this one. If he wants out, prolonging it will only make it more painful in the end.
I've said this a thousand times and I will say it again...rejection hurts soooo bad. I mean, for ME, rejection is one of the worst feelings out there. Especially when I can't figure out WHY I'm being rejected. Why am I not worth working in this marriage? Why would he send me a sweet email on Friday and want a divorce on Monday??
It's not about YOU... Please remember that. Don't start thinking like that, or if you do, then you need to stop it in it's tracks.
Your husband is on a path that may not include you and that is painful, but just remember that you are beautiful and a wonderful mother. You've been the best wife you can be. Don't forget that.
Your husband is lucky to have you... Maybe he just doesn't know it.
So many hugs
I've said this a thousand times and I will say it again...rejection hurts soooo bad. I mean, for ME, rejection is one of the worst feelings out there. Especially when I can't figure out WHY I'm being rejected. Why am I not worth working in this marriage? Why would he send me a sweet email on Friday and want a divorce on Monday??
It's not about YOU... Please remember that. Don't start thinking like that, or if you do, then you need to stop it in it's tracks.
Your husband is on a path that may not include you and that is painful, but just remember that you are beautiful and a wonderful mother. You've been the best wife you can be. Don't forget that.
Your husband is lucky to have you... Maybe he just doesn't know it.
So many hugs
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 407
LexieCat,
Thank you for the book title; I too "checked out" before I made plans to leave. I have ordered the book from Amazon (No Kindle edition) with the hope that I will have more self awareness the next time around.
Lana,
Please start thinking about yourself. Most "Codies" put everyone else before themselves, so it might be a time for some self-help.
Thank you for the book title; I too "checked out" before I made plans to leave. I have ordered the book from Amazon (No Kindle edition) with the hope that I will have more self awareness the next time around.
Lana,
Please start thinking about yourself. Most "Codies" put everyone else before themselves, so it might be a time for some self-help.
Last edited by Yurt; 04-16-2015 at 06:49 AM. Reason: Incomplete
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Originally Posted by Yurt 
LexieCat,
Thank you for the book title; I too "checked out" before I made plans to leave. I have ordered the book from Amazon (No Kindle edition) with the hope that I will have more self awareness the next time around.
Lana,
Please start thinking about yourself. Most "Codies" put everyone else before themselves, so it might be a time for some self-help.
Thank you for the book title; I too "checked out" before I made plans to leave. I have ordered the book from Amazon (No Kindle edition) with the hope that I will have more self awareness the next time around.
Lana,
Please start thinking about yourself. Most "Codies" put everyone else before themselves, so it might be a time for some self-help.
As for the OP and this topic. I can just say that I agree with everyone else. I know what dry drunk looks like firsthand and this just doesn't quite fit the bill. But, either way, does it really matter what label is put on it? He wants a divorce and I think that it's time to put the focus on YOU and step back and let things unfold as needed. HUGS to you, I know how difficult this can be!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
My H is 2 years sober. He used to withdraw with alcohol. Now he withdraws without it but has gotten very adamant about what an introvert he is and how I cannot approach him during week nights or expect him to have the energy to be emotionally or physically intimate.
I have recently realized many of his actions fall under passive aggressive behavior. This used to be a personality disorder. I am copying a review from AMAZON books as it wonderfully describes a woman dealing with her spouse. We are not allowed to copy links to Amazon, but this REVIEW is very powerful. I ordered the book this week as my library did not have anything on passive aggression.
I think you might find it eye opening as well. All the best to you.
By RFN on February 7, 2005
Format: Paperback
"Living With a Passive Agressive Man" by Scott Wetzler states that dealing with a passive-aggressive person as a spouse can drive even the most even tempered, rational, and reasonable person to huge levels of uncontrolled anger. P-As are masters at deliberately goading people. Within my marriage, I was unable to obtain the desired level of intimacy due to my partner's resistance. My needs weren't met and yet I continued to try to find a way to meet my partner's needs despite years of frustration and a lack of progress. My ex-husband controlled the dynamics of our marriage with his passive-aggressive behavior. Directly asking for what I wanted was a guarantee it would never happen. A lot was demanded of me but very little was willingly given back--not because he couldn't, I realized at the very end, but because he wouldn't. I'm generally not easily angered, but his behavior could drive me to uncontrolled rage--and then he'd calmly inform me I should seek counseling. Any conversation I tried to initiate about improving our relationship quickly turned to a list of his complaints about what was wrong with me. Finally I gave up any hope of improvement due to his extreme resistence. This book made me realize that I had a very typical relationship with a very passive-aggressive man, but the marital interchange was completely abnormal.
There are eleven hallmarks that identify the Passive-Aggressive personality disorder.
1. Fear of Dependency
2. Fear of Intimacy
3. Fear of Competition
4. Obstructionism
5. Fostering Chaos
6. Feeling Victimized
7. Making Excuses and Lying
8. Procrastination
9. Chronic lateness & Forgetfulness
10. Ambiguity
11. Sulking
My ex-husband regularly displayed every single one.
There is no way to please these people. Although the implication is always that your inadequacies are the reason for their discontent, their problem is so complex and ingrained it is virtually impossible to eradicate. Nothing anyone provides for them is ever enough to calm their fears, self doubt, and bolster their low self esteem. The 'cure' is a constantly moving target, partially because they often ask for the opposite of what they really want, if they bother to ask at all. Usually it's a guessing game: they let you know they're displeased in a covert and passive way, but you have to try to figure out why. They will deny their anger if directly confronted. Nothing anyone does for them is ever good enough. It is almost universal within a marriage to a passive-aggressive person for them to continually withhold sex. That and deliberate action, or inaction, that denies pleasure to their partner when they do engage in intercourse is their ultimate expression of hostility and control.
Does any of this sound familiar? If so, this is the book to read to help restore some of your sanity. For years I refered to my then husband as 'Passive Agressive' without really understanding the disorder. The basis of all this dysfunctional and self-destructive behavior is rage.
Interestingly, what drives the P-A's anger is low self esteem and extreme dependency. Passive-aggressive people try to mask this by continually rejecting the very person they are dependent upon. They attempt to deny their feelings of insecurity and worthlessness by attacking in underhanded ways that make the object of this type of aggression feel confused, helpless, and demeaned. Typically, Passive-Aggressive people tend to choose one of three types of partners: Controllers, Nurturers, or Rescuers. Or someone that has a combination of those
characteristics. Hence, P-As are continually rejecting their partners for the very qualities that attracted them in the first place. They undermine the people they so desperately need in an attempt to prove to themselves they don't need them. It is a personality disorder that is highly resistant to change even with intense therapy and motivation on the part of the patient. P-As are completely convinced there is nothing wrong with them or their behavior; it is everyone else.
A complete loss of confidence and self esteem that living with such a person induces in the unfortunate person who married them is not uncommon, either. Because, of course, everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. It is usually the spouse, significant other, etc. of these people who end up in therapy because dealing with P-As is so difficult since they are constantly manipulating the environment to make themselves the victim and the person with whom they're interacting the bad guy. It is a very difficult disorder for people who are straightforward and psychologically sound to deal with or recognize. The tendency is, since you are being held responsible by the other person for problems in the relationship, to hold yourself responsible as well.
The book was mainly about how to set boundaries and cope if you are involved with these types of people. The main advise given was if you can't cope with the reality that changed or even improved behavior is probably not an option, (and most people can't!) your only recourse is to leave. Which is exactly what I waited way too long to do. I was married for 27 years to an extremely passive-agressive man. If I had read this book earlier, I may have stopped accepting responsiblility for the problems in our marriage, making excuses for his bad behavior and escaped earlier, saving myself and my son years of grief.
I have recently realized many of his actions fall under passive aggressive behavior. This used to be a personality disorder. I am copying a review from AMAZON books as it wonderfully describes a woman dealing with her spouse. We are not allowed to copy links to Amazon, but this REVIEW is very powerful. I ordered the book this week as my library did not have anything on passive aggression.
I think you might find it eye opening as well. All the best to you.
By RFN on February 7, 2005
Format: Paperback
"Living With a Passive Agressive Man" by Scott Wetzler states that dealing with a passive-aggressive person as a spouse can drive even the most even tempered, rational, and reasonable person to huge levels of uncontrolled anger. P-As are masters at deliberately goading people. Within my marriage, I was unable to obtain the desired level of intimacy due to my partner's resistance. My needs weren't met and yet I continued to try to find a way to meet my partner's needs despite years of frustration and a lack of progress. My ex-husband controlled the dynamics of our marriage with his passive-aggressive behavior. Directly asking for what I wanted was a guarantee it would never happen. A lot was demanded of me but very little was willingly given back--not because he couldn't, I realized at the very end, but because he wouldn't. I'm generally not easily angered, but his behavior could drive me to uncontrolled rage--and then he'd calmly inform me I should seek counseling. Any conversation I tried to initiate about improving our relationship quickly turned to a list of his complaints about what was wrong with me. Finally I gave up any hope of improvement due to his extreme resistence. This book made me realize that I had a very typical relationship with a very passive-aggressive man, but the marital interchange was completely abnormal.
There are eleven hallmarks that identify the Passive-Aggressive personality disorder.
1. Fear of Dependency
2. Fear of Intimacy
3. Fear of Competition
4. Obstructionism
5. Fostering Chaos
6. Feeling Victimized
7. Making Excuses and Lying
8. Procrastination
9. Chronic lateness & Forgetfulness
10. Ambiguity
11. Sulking
My ex-husband regularly displayed every single one.
There is no way to please these people. Although the implication is always that your inadequacies are the reason for their discontent, their problem is so complex and ingrained it is virtually impossible to eradicate. Nothing anyone provides for them is ever enough to calm their fears, self doubt, and bolster their low self esteem. The 'cure' is a constantly moving target, partially because they often ask for the opposite of what they really want, if they bother to ask at all. Usually it's a guessing game: they let you know they're displeased in a covert and passive way, but you have to try to figure out why. They will deny their anger if directly confronted. Nothing anyone does for them is ever good enough. It is almost universal within a marriage to a passive-aggressive person for them to continually withhold sex. That and deliberate action, or inaction, that denies pleasure to their partner when they do engage in intercourse is their ultimate expression of hostility and control.
Does any of this sound familiar? If so, this is the book to read to help restore some of your sanity. For years I refered to my then husband as 'Passive Agressive' without really understanding the disorder. The basis of all this dysfunctional and self-destructive behavior is rage.
Interestingly, what drives the P-A's anger is low self esteem and extreme dependency. Passive-aggressive people try to mask this by continually rejecting the very person they are dependent upon. They attempt to deny their feelings of insecurity and worthlessness by attacking in underhanded ways that make the object of this type of aggression feel confused, helpless, and demeaned. Typically, Passive-Aggressive people tend to choose one of three types of partners: Controllers, Nurturers, or Rescuers. Or someone that has a combination of those
characteristics. Hence, P-As are continually rejecting their partners for the very qualities that attracted them in the first place. They undermine the people they so desperately need in an attempt to prove to themselves they don't need them. It is a personality disorder that is highly resistant to change even with intense therapy and motivation on the part of the patient. P-As are completely convinced there is nothing wrong with them or their behavior; it is everyone else.
A complete loss of confidence and self esteem that living with such a person induces in the unfortunate person who married them is not uncommon, either. Because, of course, everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. It is usually the spouse, significant other, etc. of these people who end up in therapy because dealing with P-As is so difficult since they are constantly manipulating the environment to make themselves the victim and the person with whom they're interacting the bad guy. It is a very difficult disorder for people who are straightforward and psychologically sound to deal with or recognize. The tendency is, since you are being held responsible by the other person for problems in the relationship, to hold yourself responsible as well.
The book was mainly about how to set boundaries and cope if you are involved with these types of people. The main advise given was if you can't cope with the reality that changed or even improved behavior is probably not an option, (and most people can't!) your only recourse is to leave. Which is exactly what I waited way too long to do. I was married for 27 years to an extremely passive-agressive man. If I had read this book earlier, I may have stopped accepting responsiblility for the problems in our marriage, making excuses for his bad behavior and escaped earlier, saving myself and my son years of grief.
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Originally Posted by redatlanta
[B] There is such a thing as being a dry drunk.
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I think Lexicat has wonderful pints and suggestions. I also think your husband may be telling you he isn't decided so that he can get his ducks in a row. I suggest you get your ducks in a row. If you have a consultation with an attorney then he cannot hire that attorney for conflict of interest. I have had friends that had consults with every good attorney in town to prevent their soon to be ex from being able to use any of them. It also gave them valuable advice on their situation. I would also suggest getting your financial house in order. Unfortunately right now you need to put the emotions on the back burner and deal with the business at hand. It doesn't sound like if he wants to divorce it sounds like when. I would make copies of all financial statements, his pay stubs, tax returns all documentation to show what you have to date. And then if he moves things around or depletes accounts you will have a paper trail and he will be held accountable. Hugs!!! This is about him not you. And maybe if you take a step back you will see that you don't want to be with someone that treats you this way and it will become your choice. When I said it is about him, I mean he is trying to blame you for his failings. Don't let him. You know who you are and you have taken responsibility for reacting "badly". You are self aware and have tried. Now it is time to put your energy into yourself. Take care!
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Originally Posted by searching peace
If you have a consultation with an attorney then he cannot hire that attorney for conflict of interest. I have had friends that had consults with every good attorney in town to prevent their soon to be ex from being able to use any of them.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
In my own experience, I "checked out" of my first marriage emotionally long before I told my husband I wanted a divorce. It's a process, and described very well in a book that got me through two divorces and a breakup of a LTR: "Uncoupling: Turning Points in Intimate Relationships" by Diane Vaughan.
To the OP: I'm sorry you are hurting. What a hard situation for you. I have nothing in the way of advice. I do have a bit of a share.
I was the one that instigated my divorce. It took me a loooong time to get there even though I had made some preliminary moves (own checking account, untangling some bills etc.) nearly four years before I filed. It was confusing for me, I was not handling things well. My husband was completely blind sided. I have a lot of passive aggressive traits. There was not malicious intent behind them but I'm not sure that really makes any difference to the person on the receiving end. I spent hours on my computer as a form of escape and to not have to interact with him. I was not having an affair. I didn't even talk to men on the computer - I was on a couple message boards for women only and played solitaire. I'm not sure why I'm even sharing. I don't mean to condone or explain away his behavior. It is hurtful and so was mine. I guess I'm sharing to say don't make things harder for yourself than they need to be. If you have no reason to suspect he's having an affair - than no need to start second guessing. My situation was complicated because my husband was active in his alcoholism and things were just going to hell on so many levels but, at the end of the day, that passive aggressive destruction was about me, not him. His behavior is about him, not you.
I guess I do have some advice, both from the spouse of an alcoholic point of view and from the point of view above - focus on yourself. If counseling or support groups are an option, avail yourself of those. Your husband is dealing with his stuff (perhaps not in a very functional or kind way but it is what it is) and pushing at him is not likely to help, IMO only. I will turn out how it turns out.
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For me the decision to leave was a process of gradual withdrawal, of distancing myself emotionally, over a period of time. It wasn't a conscious process but happened as differences became problems. As a recovering alcoholic (23 years), I wouldn't blame your husband's state of mind on his lack of program. I've gone through periods of cutting back on meetings and felt more self-involved, self-centered, cranky, but these were passing moods that cleared when I got back on track. They didn't affect my relationships or work. You still must address the situation as it is.
I would make time for Alanon, it saved my sanity and gave me the support I needed during a relationship crisis. Helped me see what I could -- and couldn't -- change.
I'm so sorry you're going through this tough time, I've been there and think of anything harder.
I would make time for Alanon, it saved my sanity and gave me the support I needed during a relationship crisis. Helped me see what I could -- and couldn't -- change.
I'm so sorry you're going through this tough time, I've been there and think of anything harder.
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Thanks, everyone. After a long conversation today, things seem like they're going to be okay. We both are going to work on our issues and go to meetings and therapy and do everything we can to keep the marriage together. (I am 100% certain he isn't/wasn't having an affair.)
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