This is NOT living

Old 04-07-2015, 07:48 AM
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This is NOT living

A lot has happened since the last time I was on here 2 years ago. My wife was abusing an alcoholic and I didn’t even know she drank alcohol. Still smile at how stupid I was.
Any ways, fast forward 2 years and some months. And I need more advice. Even though it will be a long post I will try to keep it short and organized.


The girl I thought I married
The girl I married was amazing, kind, loving, sexy, forgiving…all that a man could ask for. I have often said that the first 5 years of marriage were probably the best years of my life. But like I said I was stupid and naïve. I am now realizing that she did everything I wanted her to do, said everything I wanted to hear, and even made her hobbies and interests akin to mine. Red flag, I know, should have seen it for what it was. But like I said I was immature. So before marriage there were some things (some conditions were hers and some were mine. Lo and behold most of them ended up being the one and the same) which were agreed upon.

- I am conservative and she ‘claimed’ to be as well – dressing modestly
- Neither of us wanted kids
- Wanted to take care of some financial obligations before we got married. She didn’t want to wait and assured me that she will be right there with me and will help in whatever way she can. And didn’t require money and flashy things to be happy.
- And most importantly, just like me she had never had a drink and never experimented with any drugs. I am not the moral police here so don’t really care if someone has or hasn’t.


The girl who I actually married
Well like I said the first five years were awesome (I thought so at the time). Looking back now I realize she was trying to be someone who I would have wanted to marry and not herself. Well that can only last so long. And also, coz I was seriously co-dependent and didn’t even know it. So before long the conditions went out the window; she wanted kids, didn’t dress like she dressed the first two years, wanted a big house and abused alcohol for two years after giving birth to our second daughter along with benzos and opiates. And in the process I found out a lot of things about her which I didn’t know. All the while I was a controlling co-defendant who thought I could fix everything by yelling and screaming and taking control of the situation by manipulating her every which way.


Fast forward to today, it’s been 2 years since I have joined Al- Anon and worked a program with a sponsor. She has only gone to couple of AA meetings and counseling sessions (even though that was part of the deal for me to give her second chance). You know how that goes…I don’t have reason to suspect she is drinking or abusing drugs. But her behavior is getting worse day by day. One day she loves me more than life then the next day she hates me more than anything. It always takes two to tango, so to add to the mix I also have in attentive ADHD, which makes matters a lot more ‘complicated’ if you will.


Issues
So now even though I have tried to work things out, I feel like she is a dry alcoholic. Has the same mindset and gets upset at petty things and stops talking for days (longest being 8 days). We finally ended up in therapy where she admitted to all this (we have had multiple before where she wasn’t truthful) and we are going to have our second session in two days.


Her main issue now is that I DIDN't support her mentally and physically when she was pregnant and that is why she turned to alcohol. And she has shut down since then. She constantly finds faults in things I do. Small things and they become so huge that we don’t talk for days. I keep telling her I want to work on this marriage but she has to own up to her stuff and work on herself. But according to her all the issues are mine. And she has been putting up with it for a long time and is not going to anymore and has emotionally shut down. I am hurt, and cry a lot over what has become of my life.

I feel like I compromised on every level. There are other more suitable partners out there if she wanted to live a different life style. She even had an abortion without my consent. I realize that I have no say in the matter. But as a family unit I would think my opinion would matter in a decision like this.


Any ways, we are in one of our ‘cold war’ modes again. And I am just hurting really bad, I married because I wanted companionship and a friend as a life partner. Feel more like I am living with a stranger. I still have so much love for her that it hurts. But I can’t keep living like this, this is not living.
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:53 AM
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...we are going to marriage counseling and the 'Main Issue' keeps changing. Somtimes its 'Me not being there for her during pregnancy' then its 'You don't help around the house'. Then its 'You don't respect my parents'. Then 'its you aren't a good father'. And I have to PROVE my love for my family everytime by 'DOING more'. I am getting tired, worn out, and really hurting. And we never talk about her addiction and since she hasn't 'abused' anything in two years, she is cured.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:05 AM
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Hi Army of One,
I feel your pain , as I am sure many on this forum do. The tricky Dry Drunk syndrome ... Some say no such thing , I say there is, or at least there is some form of mental disorder that closely resembles the alcoholic behaviors. In my case , I could never really believe that my partner could be in the midst of a very strong dry drunk,(sober for 14 years , not going to AA for 10). I finally realized that I was thinking correctly when he started actively drinking. It is not about you , its her war not yours. Detachment in love , we can find peace.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by horsegirl View Post
Hi Army of One,
I feel your pain , as I am sure many on this forum do. The tricky Dry Drunk syndrome ... Some say no such thing , I say there is, or at least there is some form of mental disorder that closely resembles the alcoholic behaviors. In my case , I could never really believe that my partner could be in the midst of a very strong dry drunk,(sober for 14 years , not going to AA for 10). I finally realized that I was thinking correctly when he started actively drinking. It is not about you , its her war not yours. Detachment in love , we can find peace.
I started weeping as I read your post. I can't win, anything I do, everything I do. Its tossed aside and something new is pointed out.

She has never admitted to the fact that she was addicted, or has never gone to an AA meeting on her own.

I am not saying I am an angel. I have made mistakes and that is why I have been in Al-Anon for the past 3 years but where is her recovery? What is she doing with her side of the street?
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:24 AM
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I'm in no position to give advice. But, I know your pain...even though its hard to describe.

Good luck man.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:35 AM
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I'm so sorry. What you say sounds painfully familiar. They apparently can flip flop. My husband for example tried hard to prove to me how much he loved kids, babies, sending pics with his nieces, little babies . . . fast forward nine years, no kids, says that we have never even been married, that he was not my first.

Working on my divorce these days.

You will be in my prayers. Hugs to you.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:44 AM
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Have you suggested to her that you guys may need to do counseling separately? I have a feeling that would help both of you.

Sometimes the resentments are so much that a person cannot get past them. Maybe that is the case for her. Maybe that is the case for you.

I am sorry that you are going through this. Hugs to you.
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Old 04-07-2015, 08:56 AM
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Counseling is the place to talk about all this. You can say to the counselor, with her in the room, "She was using every day right under my nose and lying to me about it, it was [devastating/confusing/bewildering/disappointing/financially taxing]. I am trying to own what was mine in that situation, and now that she is purportedly clean, I'm trying to learn how to trust my wife again after she lied to me every day for two years, and after the numerous ways all this has deeply affected our marriage/child/families."

The "she said no-kids" stuff? I'd tread lightly there. I know it's a sticking point because she was pretending to be something she wasn't, but you do have a child there now who is looking to you for safety and emotional security, and it will be devastating to the child to hear Dad was and is ambivalent about him or her. I was when my folks said it! Buckle down and recognize that even under these circumstances, you are responsible for a child who needs you (especially if Mom is an addict, dry or not), and that you're responsible for you and your behavior too. Detachment from her craziness helps. It helped me to really work on my relationship with my kids. I was an ambivalent and not very strong parent before, but all the counseling and SR work opened me up and made me more understanding and compassionate with them than ever.

You might find that you two are just incompatible in your marriage now. People change with time, addiction or not. But even then, there is no reason whatsoever to pull any punches, especially not in counseling. You can politely and clearly say that you believe your wife is an addict, her erratic and deceptive behavior is and was an issue for you, you are in counseling and attending Al-Anon which is helping you deal with this, and that you believe she is constantly pointing out your weaknesses to deflect from discussing hers.

I suspect that after a few counseling sessions, a GOOD counselor will hold her accountable for her part in it. REGARDLESS of whether or not you were supportive during pregnancy, she is responsible for how she acted over the next two years. REGARDLESS of whether you help out around the house, she's responsible for her part in staging a week-long silent treatment. Recovery for her will be realizing that drinking and taking drugs to cope with disappointment is as bad as avoiding the problems through silence and avoidance. A good counselor will point out that whether or not the origin of the toxicity is you, her, or the man in the moon, she's contributing to it. If I were you, I'd make a concerted effort to be nice and help out around the house, buy her some flowers to be spontaneous and kind, do something else thoughtful for her and the kid, cook a dinner, do a goofy dance in the living room to make her laugh, and do that more often, period, in the marriage, along with marital and individual counseling and Al-Anon. Even if it all falls apart, these acts of kindness -- to her AND yourself -- are the things that keep life together during the hard stuff. Have a frank conversation about what she wants to see you do around that house, and whether that's a general request or if there are specific things that she wants done by you and what her expectations are -- what, how often, etc. Own that. If you've been a reluctant husband and father, get to work on those resentments and let them go.

If your beef is ultimately that you've been deceived and are married to a stranger -- and that the woman you loved was a farce -- you have your answer. No marriage counseling will fix that.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:00 AM
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Wow, so sorry to read your story. I feel like I cannot give great advice since I am currently trying to figure things out with my AH situation, but I did want to write to say I can relate. My AH blames everything on me...no one is perfect like you said...but it sounds like she has bigger issues to deal with that you can't fix...it's not your job! Have you ever looked up Passive Aggressive? Sounds like she has some of those symptoms...silent treatments are not the way to resolve problems in a marriage. At least you are going to Al Anon and getting that support. My husband won't allow me to go...I know, very controlling...but I come here for the support. Keep posting and hope everything works out for you.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 View Post
Have you suggested to her that you guys may need to do counseling separately? I have a feeling that would help both of you.

Sometimes the resentments are so much that a person cannot get past them. Maybe that is the case for her. Maybe that is the case for you.

I am sorry that you are going through this. Hugs to you.
'Suggested' would be putting it lightly. The only reason we are in the marriage counseling is the fact that she started looking for counselors to prove to me that I am the issue in the relationship. So a 'third' party would validate what she has been saying all this time. And she didn't even go through with it. She called a couple of them said none of them got back to her. So I took the oppurtunity to find one and said lets go. Only in the hopes that while we are there maybe we can work something out.

When she was actively abusing, I forced her to go and she saw at least 3 counselors. And ONLY did it to passify me because I was threatening to divorce and take the kids because she was not fit to take care of the girls in that state.

I have seen some progress in therapy, small but its there. She for the first time alluded to the fact that she carries around 'guilt' and started crying. I felt bad for her. I love her to peices and wish she would address that issue. I have never heard her say that in the 8 years we have been married.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Florence View Post
Counseling is the place to talk about all this. You can say to the counselor, with her in the room, "She was using every day right under my nose and lying to me about it, it was [devastating/confusing/bewildering/disappointing/financially taxing]. I am trying to own what was mine in that situation, and now that she is purportedly clean, I'm trying to learn how to trust my wife again after she lied to me every day for two years, and after the numerous ways all this has deeply affected our marriage/child/families."

The "she said no-kids" stuff? I'd tread lightly there. I know it's a sticking point because she was pretending to be something she wasn't, but you do have a child there now who is looking to you for safety and emotional security, and it will be devastating to the child to hear Dad was and is ambivalent about him or her. I was when my folks said it! Buckle down and recognize that even under these circumstances, you are responsible for a child who needs you (especially if Mom is an addict, dry or not), and that you're responsible for you and your behavior too. Detachment from her craziness helps. It helped me to really work on my relationship with my kids. I was an ambivalent and not very strong parent before, but all the counseling and SR work opened me up and made me more understanding and compassionate with them than ever.

You might find that you two are just incompatible in your marriage now. People change with time, addiction or not. But even then, there is no reason whatsoever to pull any punches, especially not in counseling. You can politely and clearly say that you believe your wife is an addict, her erratic and deceptive behavior is and was an issue for you, you are in counseling and attending Al-Anon which is helping you deal with this, and that you believe she is constantly pointing out your weaknesses to deflect from discussing hers.

I suspect that after a few counseling sessions, a GOOD counselor will hold her accountable for her part in it. REGARDLESS of whether or not you were supportive during pregnancy, she is responsible for how she acted over the next two years. REGARDLESS of whether you help out around the house, she's responsible for her part in staging a week-long silent treatment. Recovery for her will be realizing that drinking and taking drugs to cope with disappointment is as bad as avoiding the problems through silence and avoidance. A good counselor will point out that whether or not the origin of the toxicity is you, her, or the man in the moon, she's contributing to it. If I were you, I'd make a concerted effort to be nice and help out around the house, buy her some flowers to be spontaneous and kind, do something else thoughtful for her and the kid, cook a dinner, do a goofy dance in the living room to make her laugh, and do that more often, period, in the marriage, along with marital and individual counseling and Al-Anon. Even if it all falls apart, these acts of kindness -- to her AND yourself -- are the things that keep life together during the hard stuff. Have a frank conversation about what she wants to see you do around that house, and whether that's a general request or if there are specific things that she wants done by you and what her expectations are -- what, how often, etc. Own that. If you've been a reluctant husband and father, get to work on those resentments and let them go.

If your beef is ultimately that you've been deceived and are married to a stranger -- and that the woman you loved was a farce -- you have your answer. No marriage counseling will fix that.
Florence first and foremost I LOVE my daughters to the moon and back. I can't go to sleep without huggng and kissing them, I can't leave the house in the morning without hugging and kissing them. And they think the world of me. I didn't have a role model father and there are things I am still learning to do better. But my girls are my world and I will do anything for them.

And you are 100% on the mark. I did poliely say exactly what you just said. And I am sure the counselor sees both sides. But it takes two to tango, my own personal issue is my ADD and the whole 'isms' for which I am in Al-Anon.

'Detachement' with LOVE is the hardest concept in the world for me. I have such a hard time with it. I struggle immensley. I am nice to her one day and then go off on her when she starts the 'You need to...'. She knows how to get under my skin. I have worked extremely hard on mysef, the anxiety, the tightness in the chest, not knowing what the future holds, questioning every action, investigating....all of that is my addiction. It takes two to tango, I sometimes provide fuel for the fire. I will tell her how I feel and then when she doesn't talk for days I run back to her and try to apologize and get her to talk to me. I can't take the silent treatment. Altough I have gotten much much better.
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Old 04-07-2015, 09:42 AM
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That silent treatment thing poisons any relationship. See if both of you can work intensively with your therapist on communication strategies, because 8 days of silence is crazy. I'm so sorry for the stress of what you're experiencing and it must be terrible for the children.

Are you 100% sure she's not started drinking or substance abuse of some sort?
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ArmyOfOne View Post
I started weeping as I read your post. I can't win, anything I do, everything I do. Its tossed aside and something new is pointed out.

She has never admitted to the fact that she was addicted, or has never gone to an AA meeting on her own.

I am not saying I am an angel. I have made mistakes and that is why I have been in Al-Anon for the past 3 years but where is her recovery? What is she doing with her side of the street?
I have been going to alanon for a year. For a very long time (years) I have been trying to find the courage to make a decision , any decision regarding my relationship. I have been detaching , accepting and most importantly surrendering . I could not hope, scream or beg for him to be present and engaged in our relationship. He could NOT , he had a relationship with this addiction and depression. He finally made the decision , I was making great strides and once I changed our dance, I was out. I was ready to be done with living in all of that pain, the same pain you write about. Though it is very sad that all those years of me putting my everything and my sanity into the relationship it ended anyway, I feel relieved. But, you get to choose , that is the beauty of it. I would say , if you want to stay in this marriage, it will help for you to go to counseling and really surrender to what you cannot change. You cannot win against Alcoholism or drug addiction , only the sufferer can .
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat View Post
That silent treatment thing poisons any relationship. See if both of you can work intensively with your therapist on communication strategies, because 8 days of silence is crazy. I'm so sorry for the stress of what you're experiencing and it must be terrible for the children.

Are you 100% sure she's not started drinking or substance abuse of some sort?
I don't have any reason to believe she is actively abusing or drinking. She is whole heartedly committed to our girls. And spends most of her time with them away from work. She rarely goes out with friends or stays out late.

But can I say that with certainty? Probably not.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:46 AM
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I definitely relate to this. I'm sorry you're going through this. My dry AH hasn't drank since October, but has not attempted to make any other changes or do any real "soul searching" or individual therapy.
He prefers to blame all of our issues, as well as his drinking and his cheating on me.
He stopped drinking, which I do give him credit for, but he thinks that's the bottom line. He's done his part, so what's my problem? is what he thinks.
Like your AS, mine was anxious to start couseling together, to get me to see that the problems were on me... but when that's not what happened he refused to go back, and blamed the counselor... she's just one more person who doesn't "understand him."

I think, like Hopeful said, sometimes the past resentments are just too much to get over. The hurt is too deep. At least that's how I feel, and I think my AH does too.

It's a hard place to be in. I want so badly to still have the man I married and feel loved in the way I used to, and to feel safe with him like I used to. I want to love him in the way that I used to... It's hard to accept that is just not going to happen. Especially when there are still good times along with the bad.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:48 AM
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Sounds like she has more issues than just being a dry drunk.......

I agree with Florence - it could be that she has changed.

If she is not using then I think you need some intensive marriage counseling to see if this can be worked out. This is no way to live my man. Not for either of you.
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Old 04-07-2015, 07:44 PM
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It's good your wife and you decided to seek marriage counseling. I wish you the best. I can understand and relate to your exhaustion and tiredness with everything.

My husband and I started marriage counseling two weeks ago. We only had one session as a couple. The other two sessions were individual so she could understand each of our perspectives. Thankfully, she has a very good understanding of addictions. I barely had to say much the first session. She stepped in a handful of times and finished my thoughts. A sigh of relief. For many months, I felt like I was swimming upstream against a very strong current by myself. I was the only voice of reason with my husband. Finally, I had another individual echo similar words to my husband that I had spoken.

I hope you have a similar experience like mine. It's a challenging road we all face and every bit of support we find along the way is wonderful and much needed. Hang in there. You're not alone.
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Old 04-08-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by brightdaysahead View Post
It's good your wife and you decided to seek marriage counseling. I wish you the best. I can understand and relate to your exhaustion and tiredness with everything.

My husband and I started marriage counseling two weeks ago. We only had one session as a couple. The other two sessions were individual so she could understand each of our perspectives. Thankfully, she has a very good understanding of addictions. I barely had to say much the first session. She stepped in a handful of times and finished my thoughts. A sigh of relief. For many months, I felt like I was swimming upstream against a very strong current by myself. I was the only voice of reason with my husband. Finally, I had another individual echo similar words to my husband that I had spoken.

I hope you have a similar experience like mine. It's a challenging road we all face and every bit of support we find along the way is wonderful and much needed. Hang in there. You're not alone.
My counselor I guess sees the issues with both of us but he is very careful to lay any blame on either party. He is trying to take a 'communications' approach. Saying we have holes in our communication and we need to work on those. But he has asked point blank questions about her addiction and my anger/controlling tendencies.

So lets how it goes. Best of luck to you too!!!!
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:37 PM
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Hi, welcome to SR

I hope you don't mind if I take a stab at this from a different direction. Take what you can, leave the rest.

I drank my way through an abusive relationship. I couldn't deal with being told that everything about me was wrong. In your first post, you mentioned how she dressed.

People want to feel accepted. Said the first 5 years of your relationship were great. In the beginning of a relationship people try to please people. It actually could be that you only wanted to see her for who you wanted to see her for. She starts to dress differently, you don't like it. I did hear where you would yell, and scream at her. Be controlling, your own words.

I did hear that you have a background also. That you didn't want to repeat yours.

I have a question for you. Do you want her to be the person you want her to be, or the person that she is (forget about the alcohol here).

(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
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Old 04-09-2015, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by amy55 View Post
Hi, welcome to SR

I hope you don't mind if I take a stab at this from a different direction. Take what you can, leave the rest.

I drank my way through an abusive relationship. I couldn't deal with being told that everything about me was wrong. In your first post, you mentioned how she dressed.

People want to feel accepted. Said the first 5 years of your relationship were great. In the beginning of a relationship people try to please people. It actually could be that you only wanted to see her for who you wanted to see her for. She starts to dress differently, you don't like it. I did hear where you would yell, and scream at her. Be controlling, your own words.

I did hear that you have a background also. That you didn't want to repeat yours.

I have a question for you. Do you want her to be the person you want her to be, or the person that she is (forget about the alcohol here).

(((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
amy
You are absolutely right. I did see her the way I wanted to see her. But I guess my gripe/resentment is that she had no right to be with someone like me when she knew how I am and what I want. There were plenty of guys who would be better suited. I made it very clear early on what I wanted in life and she assured me that she wanted the same thing and couldn't believe there was someone else like her.

And its not that easy for me to 'forget' about Alcohol. I don't drink, never have and don't intend to either. And that is what I wanted in a life partner which she pretended she was. And at this point it doesn't even matter which person I want her to be. She is who she is and is living her life the way she intends to regardless of my likes and dislikes.

Any ways, at this point its spilled milk. I have two daughers with her and I intend to stick to my vows and make this marriage work. Which is exactly what 'Florence' alluded to. Either I stay and make it work and let go of the resentments. Or leave her since she is not the same person who I married. Which is what I am working on through couseling. Its going to be easy but I am giving it my all. And that is the most I can do.


FYI: I am the one who gets told that I do everything wrong. We rarely ever argue because I didn't like something.
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