Detatchment or avoidance?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SoCal
Posts: 73
Detatchment or avoidance?
Hi - I've been lurking around for a couple of weeks and finally joined! My AH is "trying" to recover but still less than a week sober at a time. I'm trying really hard to detatch and wait things out since I'm not really ready to throw in the towel on our family yet. Full disclosure: I'm a co-dependent control freak with low self-esteem and my own issues - none diagnosed though 
Obviously, I'm not very good at letting things go and keeping my mouth shut, but Saturday evening I heard something that I can't get over. I can't decide if not calling him on it is part of me "detatching" or just letting him get away with it ... I hate feeling like someone is lying!
So he finally got a sponsor but has still been drinking (much less but there it is ...) He's downing a bottle a night (I think) and hiding it from me - not sure if he thinks I don't know or what, but the point is as hard as it is for me, I've not said ONE WORD to him. I hear him on the phone with his sponsor Sat evening (he missed several meetings due to a "stay-cation" with his family). He tells him he's 2 DAYS SOBER (he drank a beer and a bottle in front of me (we stayed in the same room so he couldn't hide it lol!) the night before), then I hear him telling his sponsor that he got grief everytime he took a drink - and I quote "verbal grief". Now this conversation was not me snooping to hear it, I was watching tv and he was in full earshot while he was having it.
I've not said a word about it to him although he knows I'm in a bad mood about something as I've barely interacted with him the last couple of days. And as far as I can tell from his behavior, etc. he's still drinking after I go to bed. So, am I justified in wanting to call him out on lying to his sponsor and more importantly, flat-out lying about me (in front of me no less!!!)? It's killing me that he would make me out to be such a PITA - who knows what he's said about me!
It brings to mind the "quack" thread, but I just can't seem to let it go
Obviously, I'm not very good at letting things go and keeping my mouth shut, but Saturday evening I heard something that I can't get over. I can't decide if not calling him on it is part of me "detatching" or just letting him get away with it ... I hate feeling like someone is lying!
So he finally got a sponsor but has still been drinking (much less but there it is ...) He's downing a bottle a night (I think) and hiding it from me - not sure if he thinks I don't know or what, but the point is as hard as it is for me, I've not said ONE WORD to him. I hear him on the phone with his sponsor Sat evening (he missed several meetings due to a "stay-cation" with his family). He tells him he's 2 DAYS SOBER (he drank a beer and a bottle in front of me (we stayed in the same room so he couldn't hide it lol!) the night before), then I hear him telling his sponsor that he got grief everytime he took a drink - and I quote "verbal grief". Now this conversation was not me snooping to hear it, I was watching tv and he was in full earshot while he was having it.
I've not said a word about it to him although he knows I'm in a bad mood about something as I've barely interacted with him the last couple of days. And as far as I can tell from his behavior, etc. he's still drinking after I go to bed. So, am I justified in wanting to call him out on lying to his sponsor and more importantly, flat-out lying about me (in front of me no less!!!)? It's killing me that he would make me out to be such a PITA - who knows what he's said about me!
It brings to mind the "quack" thread, but I just can't seem to let it go
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Hi & Welcome -- and dangit, I want a unicorn, too!!!
Glad you decided to jump in and post.
So... detaching includes detaching from the A lies. If he chooses to lie to his sponsor, that's his thing. Not yours. All I can tell you is that most seasoned AA members are brilliant at identifying a lie when they hear one -- often because they've used them all themselves.
He's lying to his sponsor. That's not good. But he's talking to his sponsor. That is good.
I'm wondering if you are doing anything for your recovery? I recommend Al-Anon to everyone, because it was just such a great experience for me -- both working their program (which forced me to be honest with myself) and the meetings (which gave me a place to share without feeling judged). I pretty much have the same non-Dx as you:
and I know for me, Al-Anon helped with all of the above.
It's not a silver bullet, for sure, but it really helped me connect with myself instead of being focused on what HE did... and that was the start of my recovery from codependency.
Glad you decided to jump in and post.
So... detaching includes detaching from the A lies. If he chooses to lie to his sponsor, that's his thing. Not yours. All I can tell you is that most seasoned AA members are brilliant at identifying a lie when they hear one -- often because they've used them all themselves.
He's lying to his sponsor. That's not good. But he's talking to his sponsor. That is good.
I'm wondering if you are doing anything for your recovery? I recommend Al-Anon to everyone, because it was just such a great experience for me -- both working their program (which forced me to be honest with myself) and the meetings (which gave me a place to share without feeling judged). I pretty much have the same non-Dx as you:
a co-dependent control freak with low self-esteem and my own issues
It's not a silver bullet, for sure, but it really helped me connect with myself instead of being focused on what HE did... and that was the start of my recovery from codependency.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Hi WMU. This is so frustrating. I know exactly how it feels.
But rather than focusing on whether or not to confront him about his lying to his sponsor and inserting yourself into his recovery (or lack thereof), it's really important to simply sit with this information and accept it for what it is, and what it means to you to be living with someone who is a) lying to himself and others, and b) not showing you with his actions that he is truly engaged with recovery at this time.
I know when I was living with my XABF I became obsessed with him fixing himself enough so that we could have a relationship. It was just another way to keep from focusing on my own issues and figuring out why I was so invested in accepting the unacceptable for the sake of what was a very unhealthy relationship. I had given him all the power to make me happy and absolved myself of the responsibility for doing so.
It's hard to let go of this stuff. But it is HIS stuff. I know it affects you, but you do have some power here to let it go and take care of yourself.
But rather than focusing on whether or not to confront him about his lying to his sponsor and inserting yourself into his recovery (or lack thereof), it's really important to simply sit with this information and accept it for what it is, and what it means to you to be living with someone who is a) lying to himself and others, and b) not showing you with his actions that he is truly engaged with recovery at this time.
I know when I was living with my XABF I became obsessed with him fixing himself enough so that we could have a relationship. It was just another way to keep from focusing on my own issues and figuring out why I was so invested in accepting the unacceptable for the sake of what was a very unhealthy relationship. I had given him all the power to make me happy and absolved myself of the responsibility for doing so.
It's hard to let go of this stuff. But it is HIS stuff. I know it affects you, but you do have some power here to let it go and take care of yourself.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Well he's probably doing it to bait you so you will say something. AND THEN you will have REALLY given him a reason to drink ha ha ha. That's how they think.
Don't bother. If his sponsor has sobriety and half a brain he'll know he's drinking first off and will disregard his comments about you.
Don't bother. If his sponsor has sobriety and half a brain he'll know he's drinking first off and will disregard his comments about you.
Originally Posted by Wheresmyunicorn 
Hi - I've been lurking around for a couple of weeks and finally joined! My AH is "trying" to recover but still less than a week sober at a time. I'm trying really hard to detatch and wait things out since I'm not really ready to throw in the towel on our family yet. Full disclosure: I'm a co-dependent control freak with low self-esteem and my own issues - none diagnosed though
Obviously, I'm not very good at letting things go and keeping my mouth shut, but Saturday evening I heard something that I can't get over. I can't decide if not calling him on it is part of me "detatching" or just letting him get away with it ... I hate feeling like someone is lying!
So he finally got a sponsor but has still been drinking (much less but there it is ...) He's downing a bottle a night (I think) and hiding it from me - not sure if he thinks I don't know or what, but the point is as hard as it is for me, I've not said ONE WORD to him. I hear him on the phone with his sponsor Sat evening (he missed several meetings due to a "stay-cation" with his family). He tells him he's 2 DAYS SOBER (he drank a beer and a bottle in front of me (we stayed in the same room so he couldn't hide it lol!) the night before), then I hear him telling his sponsor that he got grief everytime he took a drink - and I quote "verbal grief". Now this conversation was not me snooping to hear it, I was watching tv and he was in full earshot while he was having it.
I've not said a word about it to him although he knows I'm in a bad mood about something as I've barely interacted with him the last couple of days. And as far as I can tell from his behavior, etc. he's still drinking after I go to bed. So, am I justified in wanting to call him out on lying to his sponsor and more importantly, flat-out lying about me (in front of me no less!!!)? It's killing me that he would make me out to be such a PITA - who knows what he's said about me!
It brings to mind the "quack" thread, but I just can't seem to let it go
Obviously, I'm not very good at letting things go and keeping my mouth shut, but Saturday evening I heard something that I can't get over. I can't decide if not calling him on it is part of me "detatching" or just letting him get away with it ... I hate feeling like someone is lying!
So he finally got a sponsor but has still been drinking (much less but there it is ...) He's downing a bottle a night (I think) and hiding it from me - not sure if he thinks I don't know or what, but the point is as hard as it is for me, I've not said ONE WORD to him. I hear him on the phone with his sponsor Sat evening (he missed several meetings due to a "stay-cation" with his family). He tells him he's 2 DAYS SOBER (he drank a beer and a bottle in front of me (we stayed in the same room so he couldn't hide it lol!) the night before), then I hear him telling his sponsor that he got grief everytime he took a drink - and I quote "verbal grief". Now this conversation was not me snooping to hear it, I was watching tv and he was in full earshot while he was having it.
I've not said a word about it to him although he knows I'm in a bad mood about something as I've barely interacted with him the last couple of days. And as far as I can tell from his behavior, etc. he's still drinking after I go to bed. So, am I justified in wanting to call him out on lying to his sponsor and more importantly, flat-out lying about me (in front of me no less!!!)? It's killing me that he would make me out to be such a PITA - who knows what he's said about me!
It brings to mind the "quack" thread, but I just can't seem to let it go
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 982
Hi Unicorn...
I definitely can relate to that not wanting to let him "get away with it."
It is SOO hard for me to not say anything to my AH when I know he's lying to me, and I feel resentful that he thinks he's "pulled one over on me"
BUT, the times I have just let it go and kept my mouth shut, I have been glad I did.
Calling my AH on his lies only makes him more angry and defensive, and fight harder to make me believe his lies... even when the proof is clear as day... then I get more frustrated and on and on it goes.
So I'm getting better about it now... I ask myself before I confront him, "is it really worth it?" And it's usually not.
I'm sorry you're here, but you've found a great place with a lot of wisdom.
Hugs to you
I definitely can relate to that not wanting to let him "get away with it."
It is SOO hard for me to not say anything to my AH when I know he's lying to me, and I feel resentful that he thinks he's "pulled one over on me"
BUT, the times I have just let it go and kept my mouth shut, I have been glad I did.
Calling my AH on his lies only makes him more angry and defensive, and fight harder to make me believe his lies... even when the proof is clear as day... then I get more frustrated and on and on it goes.
So I'm getting better about it now... I ask myself before I confront him, "is it really worth it?" And it's usually not.
I'm sorry you're here, but you've found a great place with a lot of wisdom.
Hugs to you
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Sponsors usually have pretty good BS detectors. What he says to his sponsor is his business.
You do know, though, that he isn't taking this seriously. What are your boundaries? This could continue indefinitely.
You do know, though, that he isn't taking this seriously. What are your boundaries? This could continue indefinitely.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Whereismyunicorn.....welll....you could go on a tirade and bitch him out. In the end, do you think that will make him stop drinking? You mentioned that you are a "control freak", so I imagine that you have walked that walk, before....lol!
You can ignore him (detach)....which won't make him stop drinking, either. But, you will be able to keep your own blood pressure down and take some space to plan what you are going to do.
The bottom line is that he is going to do what he wants to do. The question becomes--what are you going to do.
Have you placed any boundaries as to what you will do if he drinks? Words don't tend to work very well with an alcoholic.....actions do.
dandylion
You can ignore him (detach)....which won't make him stop drinking, either. But, you will be able to keep your own blood pressure down and take some space to plan what you are going to do.
The bottom line is that he is going to do what he wants to do. The question becomes--what are you going to do.
Have you placed any boundaries as to what you will do if he drinks? Words don't tend to work very well with an alcoholic.....actions do.
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
For me the question is what value there is in calling him out. Is that going to be the catalyst for him to change his life? Probably not. What's it going to do for you? Is it going to relieve you from the stress of living with someone you know you can't trust?
^^^ This is really important.
You can't change or control or corerce him out of his alcoholism. All you can do is decide whether or not you want it in your life. And if you don't, the answer to your dilemma is pretty clear.
But rather than focusing on whether or not to confront him about his lying to his sponsor and inserting yourself into his recovery (or lack thereof), it's really important to simply sit with this information and accept it for what it is, and what it means to you to be living with someone who is a) lying to himself and others, and b) not showing you with his actions that he is truly engaged with recovery at this time.
You can't change or control or corerce him out of his alcoholism. All you can do is decide whether or not you want it in your life. And if you don't, the answer to your dilemma is pretty clear.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SoCal
Posts: 73
Thank you for all your comments! I guess I know I should just let it go. I can't do anything about it anymore than I can make him stop drinking. It's just so frustrating when I really saw his getting a sponsor and talking to him every day as a major step in the right direction. His sponsor btw is a drug/alcohol counselor irl so I'm sure he knows the drill far better than AH or me lol! I know that it is a good sign that he continues to go and talk with him.
I'm looking into some Al-Anon meetings but have to find something I can make during lunch times. Between his meetings and the kids' activities/homework, etc. evenings don't work well. I've been reading a ton online and sampling some books in the meantime. It helps just to see so many people discussing it here (not that I would wish this mess on anyone).
For now, I'm willing to see where this "recovery" kick goes for him as long as he doesn't get back to the state he was in when he finally admitted he needed help. I told him that's my limit for now, and I will support him. I also told him I was ready to walk before he made his "announcement". I don't know that he realizes how serious I was and how far I'd gone researching my options to move out with the kids, but I'm reminding myself that as long as I know that is really all that matters.
I'm looking into some Al-Anon meetings but have to find something I can make during lunch times. Between his meetings and the kids' activities/homework, etc. evenings don't work well. I've been reading a ton online and sampling some books in the meantime. It helps just to see so many people discussing it here (not that I would wish this mess on anyone).
For now, I'm willing to see where this "recovery" kick goes for him as long as he doesn't get back to the state he was in when he finally admitted he needed help. I told him that's my limit for now, and I will support him. I also told him I was ready to walk before he made his "announcement". I don't know that he realizes how serious I was and how far I'd gone researching my options to move out with the kids, but I'm reminding myself that as long as I know that is really all that matters.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
For me, one of the most important things I did leading up to my decision to leave him was to sit back and not interfere, just observe. What would he do, and how would he be, how would he behave, without me interfering?
We eventually separated, and what I found was that whether or not he was living with me, whether or not I was observing him and calling him out on the worst of his behavior, he kept doing the same things: lying, drinking, throwing away job opportunities, being swallowed up by depression, worrying about nagging health problems without doing anything to help them, pretending to be working on himself in recovery, broken promises, leading people on so they would keep supporting him and propping up the lie that he was a-okay, lots of talk and no action. We've been divorced for about a year now, and not in meaningful contact for about 2 1/2 years, and he's doing exactly the same thing today as he did then. And while I was once worried he might literally die without me, I can tell you he is still fine and kicking, and yes, he's still abusing the trust and goodwill of the people around him.
We eventually separated, and what I found was that whether or not he was living with me, whether or not I was observing him and calling him out on the worst of his behavior, he kept doing the same things: lying, drinking, throwing away job opportunities, being swallowed up by depression, worrying about nagging health problems without doing anything to help them, pretending to be working on himself in recovery, broken promises, leading people on so they would keep supporting him and propping up the lie that he was a-okay, lots of talk and no action. We've been divorced for about a year now, and not in meaningful contact for about 2 1/2 years, and he's doing exactly the same thing today as he did then. And while I was once worried he might literally die without me, I can tell you he is still fine and kicking, and yes, he's still abusing the trust and goodwill of the people around him.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 278
You're not alone in wondering whether or not to confront an alcoholic partner, and wondering whether, if you take care of yourself and your own self-esteem first, it's "Letting them get away with it".
My view is that confronting an alcoholic about lying is like, er, urinating into the wind. It's likely to start a blazing row and it certainly won't stop the lying. It won't significantly affect the alcoholic (apart from giving them another excuse to drink) but it will have a very detrimental effect on my own wellbeing.
The only active alcoholic/drug user in my life at the moment is one of my brothers. I recall him sitting at my mother's house, saying how easy he'd found it to come off drugs and how he didn't do them any more... and all the while his face was rippling gently with the tremors which indicate cocaine/amphetamine use. I had to concentrate on not laughing out loud.
I have to say, when he talks about his ex-wife, I take anything he says with a large helping of salt - and I'd be willing to bet your man's sponsor is doing the same.
Please don't let your self-esteem be conditional on what he thinks or says about you. His behaviour isn't about you; it's about his alcoholism.
You don't say whether you're in Alanon or not; I've found it incredibly helpful and supportive, and you know that in meetings you'll be surrounded by people who REALLY understand.
My view is that confronting an alcoholic about lying is like, er, urinating into the wind. It's likely to start a blazing row and it certainly won't stop the lying. It won't significantly affect the alcoholic (apart from giving them another excuse to drink) but it will have a very detrimental effect on my own wellbeing.
The only active alcoholic/drug user in my life at the moment is one of my brothers. I recall him sitting at my mother's house, saying how easy he'd found it to come off drugs and how he didn't do them any more... and all the while his face was rippling gently with the tremors which indicate cocaine/amphetamine use. I had to concentrate on not laughing out loud.
I have to say, when he talks about his ex-wife, I take anything he says with a large helping of salt - and I'd be willing to bet your man's sponsor is doing the same.
Please don't let your self-esteem be conditional on what he thinks or says about you. His behaviour isn't about you; it's about his alcoholism.
You don't say whether you're in Alanon or not; I've found it incredibly helpful and supportive, and you know that in meetings you'll be surrounded by people who REALLY understand.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SoCal
Posts: 73
Well, I knew it was coming ... he mentioned backing off from his sponsor. Guess he wasn't liking what he was hearing and having to "come clean" every day. I actually think I handled it pretty well. All I said, calmly, was that starting over (if you call 1 day a week of not drinking) all the time couldn't be any more difficult than just pushing through to get those first 30 days. I also told him that I was scared as things always get worse if he doesn't stop.
I finally got it out in the open that I am distancing myself from this and am not sure where that will lead, but it's the only way I can handle it right now without getting extremely angry. Then I pushed the conversation toward the decisions we have to make about the kids activities (sign ups are in a week for some stuff), assuming he actually goes back to work soon. (He was laid off as of February). All in all, I'm proud of myself for not losing it and not giving in to the excuses and sympathy attempts.
Being here has helped immensely! Now, if I can find a meeting I can get to ...
I finally got it out in the open that I am distancing myself from this and am not sure where that will lead, but it's the only way I can handle it right now without getting extremely angry. Then I pushed the conversation toward the decisions we have to make about the kids activities (sign ups are in a week for some stuff), assuming he actually goes back to work soon. (He was laid off as of February). All in all, I'm proud of myself for not losing it and not giving in to the excuses and sympathy attempts.
Being here has helped immensely! Now, if I can find a meeting I can get to ...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
I guess you have to decide how “important” it is to you “to be right”.
Or can him lying to himself and his sponsor and you be something you write off to alcoholism and detach from that behavior?
Alcoholics lie, period! And if you chose to remain living with an active one then detaching from alcoholic behavior is the way to do it.
Passive aggressive behavior on your part may be something for you to investigate and try and let go of. You remain mad at him for something he did days ago and would lie about anyway if confronted, again we need to ask ourselves how important is it to be right and is it really worth the argument, chaos, hurt and pain?
Our passive aggressive behavior makes our situation worse. Detach from his behavior not him.
Glad you are making some changes and looking into al-anon.
Or can him lying to himself and his sponsor and you be something you write off to alcoholism and detach from that behavior?
Alcoholics lie, period! And if you chose to remain living with an active one then detaching from alcoholic behavior is the way to do it.
Passive aggressive behavior on your part may be something for you to investigate and try and let go of. You remain mad at him for something he did days ago and would lie about anyway if confronted, again we need to ask ourselves how important is it to be right and is it really worth the argument, chaos, hurt and pain?
Our passive aggressive behavior makes our situation worse. Detach from his behavior not him.
Glad you are making some changes and looking into al-anon.
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