is this normal guy behavior?

Old 03-31-2015, 08:04 PM
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is this normal guy behavior?

Since my relationship with an A, I'm so confused as to what is normal behavior. So, I have one question pertaining to sex.

When we started dating and became closer, our relationship moved forward as relationships do, except I unfortunately learned that I was dealing with alcoholism. So, I had a lot of worry over the realization of this. I was looking to a potential future of having a partner that drinks too much, who gets angry or inappropriate at times and has a difficult financial situation.

I love him. He's funny and he's like my best friend. But because of his problem and behaviors associate with the problem, I began pulling away. Our intimacy stopped. I told him what my concerns were and he said, well maybe we can move more slowly and start over. I told him that I love him, but I don't know if this will work and he knows why.

So, he calls me daily and I enjoy our talks, but he'll always find a way to say some kind of sexual remark. It makes me uncomfortable and I'll ignore it. I think that he feels like he's been patient enough (and in normal circumstances, I'd agree) ... however, I don't see how anything has changed. He only talks to me on the phone, but won't see me in person, unless he thinks sex is possible.

He wants to know when all will be back the way it was. I don't know how to answer this. When we had intimacy, it was by the end of the night and by then he had become drunk. I don't want that to happen again.

I told him that I would like to spend non-sexual time together, to see what's possible; build our friendship, see if this has possibilities. He'll act okay with this and then later gets upset of frustrated. If there's no sex, he always has an excuse to not get together. I invited him to do something special with me, but he wanted to know if there will there be an opportunity for sex.

Is this a normal guy thing or is he being totally disrespectful to me. This is hard; I'm trying to see what is possible with a drinker (who I hope will get better, because he keeps saying he's "working on it"). We are both in limbo and I don't want to say goodbye, but I'm so stuck.

I feel like I'm depriving him and that I'm this terrible person, but I need to feel secure and safe and see a sober future in order to want sex and I don't feel this way, even though I love him.

Under these circumstances, am I being too hard on him? I've been totally honest with him about how I feel, but he acts like he doesn't get it. I feel very pressured. I just want it to be natural, not expected of me. As I said, I've forgotten what's normal. Is this the way all guys feel. If no sex, there's no point in spending time together? He thinks talking on the phone (but never seeing me) is starting over fresh and that now I should be ready.

How should I handle this and still have him in my life? thanks.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:19 PM
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You may not be able to have him in your life without compromising your own standards for what you want and need in a relationship. Personally, I'd vote for maintaining your dignity and letting him go.

Sleeping with him or not sleeping with him won't affect his ability to get sober. The problem is he doesn't WANT to get sober--he wants to continue to drink and to have sex with you. It's actually fairly simple. He is telling you he's "working on it" because that's what you want to hear, and he wants to continue to have sex with you.

Nobody who's "working on it" is serious about getting sober. I said I was "working on it" for four and a half years before I made a single move to get sober and stay that way. When I got sober I STOPPED "working on it" and started DOING it.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:27 PM
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No, it's not normal guy behavior. What is he bringing to this relationship?

There may be emotional abuse and game-playing on his end. Or maybe he's being very straightforward that all he's interested in is drinking and sex. Anything to sooth his ego, but where is some serious caring about you?

You're important.

My experience is also that "working on it" means nothing. With addiction counselors my husband and I learned that we both need to listen to what the actions are saying, not the words.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:29 PM
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Carmen.....the way I read it....I don't think this guy is focused on relationship development so much as he is on the old horizontal tango. Horizontal tango + alcohol.

No....all guys are not the same. Some are like him, and, some are not.

I don't think you can classify this as "normal" behavior. It is just one variety of behavior.
At least, this is how I see it.

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Old 03-31-2015, 08:31 PM
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Sorry, if I am misunderstanding this post, but what I am reading, is that both of you are trying to control the relationship with sex.

He is asking outright, "if i do this with you, do I get laid?' You say if we spend "non sexual" time together '"we'll see"

You say you want a safe and sober future, yet you are involved with an alcoholic, not to sound cruel, but there is no magic pixie dust to sprinkle on this situation.

He, is who he is, you cannot rewrite his current lifestyle choice.

***** And he "gets it" he is just trying to manipulate the situation and/or he has expressed his expectation and you are in the but I am thinking something else mode, sorry but I can't hold out much hope for your expectation.
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Old 03-31-2015, 08:33 PM
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He's already pushing your boundaries to see if you'll cave- and if you do it will only be harder to keep any boundaries in the future.

Red flag!!

If he really cared about you, and not just his selfish needs, he'd respect your feelings on the issue.

Btw- not seeing you unless drunk or sex is involved - flaming red flag!!

Are you uncomfortable with the way it is going? Trust that.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:08 PM
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What marie1960 said: you're both trying to control the relationship with sex, which isn't normal for men OR women. He's an alcoholic doing what alcoholics do - saying what you want to hear to keep you around. Ditch him and find some help for yourself. There's a reason you're here, and either Al-Anon or therapy can help you find your own recovery.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:34 AM
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To be honest? You've come to the realization of who he truly is and you don't want that (YAY YOU!!) And please don't get hung up on the "idea " of who he could be. I think you know the answer. It's time to move on. Be kind to him, let him know the dynamics have changed, and be good to yourself about it. Yea... He'll get all mad and say some terrible things About you to you. But deep down he's only mad at himself and he knows why.
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Old 04-01-2015, 03:45 AM
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I just wanted to add one thing. Again, Carmen, you're asking what's "normal" in a relationship with an alcoholic. It doesn't MATTER what's "normal"--whether something is part of alcoholism or plain unacceptable behavior.

YOU get to decide what you do and do not want to tolerate. It doesn't matter whether behavior is "normal" for an alcoholic, "normal" for guys in general, or "normal" in the general population. If it makes you feel unhappy, used, abused, or uncomfortable, then you don't need it in a relationship. You are absolutely privileged, at any time, to say, "I don't want this in my life," and to walk away from it.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:39 AM
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Lexie put it better than I did. She's absolutely right.
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Old 04-01-2015, 04:44 AM
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This "relationship" you have with this A is not a healthy one. You may love him but that does not mean you are IN LOVE with him. Make sense? You care about him, good enough, but there are tons of red flags.

I can only echo what other posters have said, the two of you should stop trying to control each other. Unless you want to continue to live like this it is best you move on. Possibly go no contact. What is important is you do what is best for YOU, not him. Because as I see it, this is not a relationship at all.

Sorry hon, just my two cents.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:00 AM
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Poor carmen--still waiting for him to "work on" quitting

How long has he promised that, and how much quitting has he actually done?

I agree with others--you are both trying to use sex for control which isn't "normal" or healthy.

Sorry you are still struggling with this so much.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:02 AM
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Its normal guy behavior for a douche bag you don't have to be an alcoholic to act like this.

From outside the box here's what it looks like: You want to date again and see if things can work out. He doesn't care about dating he wants to get laid. Actually he says he wants things to go back to how they were. Believe him! That means sex at the end of the night when he is tanked.

If you want to feel secure in a sober relationship possibility with this person he has to get sober first. And then, he has to maintain it. I'd say a year of recovery is a decent start to possibly trust he will continue. He hasn't even left the starting line.

There is no "normal" with an active alcoholic.

I think you have your answer.
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:19 AM
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He doesn't spend nearly as much time obsessing about you as you do about him. I'd bet cold, hard cash that he doesn't give you a second thought unless you're on the phone and he's trying for a booty call.
I wasted years on my ex trying to give him a reason to stop drinking, sex included. All it did was wreck my self esteem and make me feel unworthy because my love wasn't "enough" for him.
What is there to "handle" here? What you're really asking is how do you get him to do what you want so that you can turn your fantasy of a fulfilling adult relationship with this guy a reality. He's abusive, he's sexually crude and inappropriate, he's an alcoholic, he had to file for bankruptcy because he can't hold down a job or handle normal adult responsibilities.
You can either accept him exactly as he is and go for broke trying to make this "relationship" work or accept him exactly as he is and move on. Or there's "option C", the one you're trying so desperately to choose, which is- Change him into the man you think he has the potential to be and live happily ever after. That's not a viable choice because it's not based in reality.
This isn't really about his attitudes, behaviors or even his alcoholism. It's about reality and whether you're ready to accept what's been right in front of you this whole time.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:18 AM
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Normal guy stuff. Hmmmm. Well I can say that from your description above, many men will say or do anything they need to get to the "Horizontal Tango" as was said.

They aren't necessarily AC's, but they may act the same way. As to that being normal to a male? Hard to say. I know plenty of men that chase skirts for the sake of chasing them. And they aren't AC's. And there are plenty of women willing to tango right back.

So I can't say that is abnormal. If it works for them, so be it.

Age, hormones, morals, etc. are at work with or without alcohol.
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:26 AM
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Yes, what Lexie said.
Who cares if it's normal? You don't like it, you feel pressured into doing something you don't want to, and that's all you need to know.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:06 AM
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Carmen- maybe I am just old fashioned, but I would find his behavior extremely disrespectful. To me, it doesn't seem like you are trying to control him by withholding sex, it seems like you are trying to set boundaries to see if there is anything in the relationship worth working for and saving.

If he is making you uncomfortable now with his actions, he is not going to act any better when he is getting what he wants.

You deserve better.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:12 AM
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You two have very different ideas of what makes a good relationship, and of what makes a good partner. You have many threads proving this.

There are many, many other potential partners in the world, but you aren't available to meet them while you are still trying to force this square peg into a round hole.
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:20 AM
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There are guys who act like that, that is for sure. I would not use categories "normal" and "not normal" to classify him. Maybe you could rather say "common" and "uncommon". What he does might be common for younger guys for example, those who do not want to settle down, etc., who are looking for fun only. But the question is, what behavior do you accept? Because, he most probably won't change. And if you do not accept his terms, are you willing to walk away?
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Old 04-01-2015, 07:42 AM
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It sounds to me he thinks if he can get you back into bed then everything will be “fixed”.

If you are willing to do everything else but have sex then I can see why he may think that. I am not faulting you here, I am just making an observation from his sick point of view. Sex is the last stumbling block to get back into the relationship.

I don’t think this is normal guy behavior. Even younger men would get the hint that at some point their childish sexual innuendoes are not working or appreciated.

Maybe it is time to stop ignoring his comments and tell him that you no longer want to play the sex cat and mouse game.
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