Healthy Helping?
Healthy Helping?
Hello All:
I have read and posted more this week than I have in quite some time. I am grateful for this board especially when I am struggling with things in my life.
As I have posted before, approximately two years ago I loss my sister to suicide. To say it has been a hard two years is an understatement. It is truly amazing how strong you can be when you have to. I found a wonderful support group and have participated in a number of suicide prevention events. I think my ACA work has taught me the value of reaching out and sharing with others who have had similar experiences. Time also helps with healing. I still miss her so much and think about her every day.
So, that's the background to my current problem.
I have a brother who I haven't been particularly close with over the years for a number of reasons. However, he is the only sibling I have left and since our sister's death we are trying to establish more of a bound between us. He lives in another state, so we mostly correspond through phone calls and email.
He is not an alcoholic/addict and has no addiction issues of which I am aware. However, he has struggled for most of his adult life - jobs, money, relationships, etc. He is super smart, well educated, handsome, and very funny. Yet he doesn't see any of this in himself. He sees himself and his life as a failure. He is in his 40s and this has been going on for at least 10 years. I honestly don't know if he has an underlying mental health issue or if this is all an outcome of our upbringing of growing up in an alcoholic/dysfunctional home.
So, the "codependent no more" side of me tells me there is nothing I can do to save him. That this is his life and he must make his own decisions and choices. The codependent in me is telling me to JUST DO SOMETHING! I feel like I already loss one sibling, I can't lose my brother too.
What I am suppose to do is unclear to me. I have this urge to drive up an see him and help (whatever that means). I guess I want to find him a new apartment, find him a new job, and get him into therapy.
The only other member of my family of origin left is my mother and she has disengaged from my brother long ago.
I just really don't know what healthy helping means.
Everyone struggles at times in their life. I am envious of all these "normal" families that can help each other without getting consumed.
My sister left behind a son and I have two children of my own. They are all in their early teens. It terrifies me that they'll have some sort of addiction or mental health crisis and I won't know what to do or that I'll be powerless to do anything. Since "I didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it".
How can that one phrase give me comfort and yet make me want to cry at the same time?!?
These are things that keep me awake at night and why I continue to hang out here.
I think it might be time to head back to my therapist.
Can anyone relate?
Thank you for letting me share.
db
I have read and posted more this week than I have in quite some time. I am grateful for this board especially when I am struggling with things in my life.
As I have posted before, approximately two years ago I loss my sister to suicide. To say it has been a hard two years is an understatement. It is truly amazing how strong you can be when you have to. I found a wonderful support group and have participated in a number of suicide prevention events. I think my ACA work has taught me the value of reaching out and sharing with others who have had similar experiences. Time also helps with healing. I still miss her so much and think about her every day.
So, that's the background to my current problem.
I have a brother who I haven't been particularly close with over the years for a number of reasons. However, he is the only sibling I have left and since our sister's death we are trying to establish more of a bound between us. He lives in another state, so we mostly correspond through phone calls and email.
He is not an alcoholic/addict and has no addiction issues of which I am aware. However, he has struggled for most of his adult life - jobs, money, relationships, etc. He is super smart, well educated, handsome, and very funny. Yet he doesn't see any of this in himself. He sees himself and his life as a failure. He is in his 40s and this has been going on for at least 10 years. I honestly don't know if he has an underlying mental health issue or if this is all an outcome of our upbringing of growing up in an alcoholic/dysfunctional home.
So, the "codependent no more" side of me tells me there is nothing I can do to save him. That this is his life and he must make his own decisions and choices. The codependent in me is telling me to JUST DO SOMETHING! I feel like I already loss one sibling, I can't lose my brother too.
What I am suppose to do is unclear to me. I have this urge to drive up an see him and help (whatever that means). I guess I want to find him a new apartment, find him a new job, and get him into therapy.
The only other member of my family of origin left is my mother and she has disengaged from my brother long ago.
I just really don't know what healthy helping means.
Everyone struggles at times in their life. I am envious of all these "normal" families that can help each other without getting consumed.
My sister left behind a son and I have two children of my own. They are all in their early teens. It terrifies me that they'll have some sort of addiction or mental health crisis and I won't know what to do or that I'll be powerless to do anything. Since "I didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it".
How can that one phrase give me comfort and yet make me want to cry at the same time?!?
These are things that keep me awake at night and why I continue to hang out here.
I think it might be time to head back to my therapist.
Can anyone relate?
Thank you for letting me share.
db
Maybe just tell him sincerely, "I love you, and I want to see you happy. You deserve to be happy. Is there something you might want to talk about? I know the past two years have been hard, so please tell me if something is bothering you." Not pushy, puts the ball in his court, and is a genuine statement of loving concern without saying "You're a mess and you need help".
Thank you so much for your response.
So logical and yet so difficult for me to express these feelings to my brother. We have a lifetime of tellig each other how messed up we are.
I am feeling better and not in a panic/crisis mode anymore. I think my feelings of "somone has to do SOMETHING!" are leftover from childhood. When I was a child, it was hard to see my father spiral down and without seeing anyone trying to help him.
Thanks again,
db
So logical and yet so difficult for me to express these feelings to my brother. We have a lifetime of tellig each other how messed up we are.
I am feeling better and not in a panic/crisis mode anymore. I think my feelings of "somone has to do SOMETHING!" are leftover from childhood. When I was a child, it was hard to see my father spiral down and without seeing anyone trying to help him.
Thanks again,
db
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 350
For a period of time while my wife and I were first diagnosed with infertility (1 year of trying for a child with no success), she was feeling very low. She would sometimes talk about how things would be better without her around. She would say horrible things about herself. I felt so helpless in the situation. I literally felt powerless. Truly excruciating. Growing up in an alcoholic home made me a REALLY confused person when it came to being supportive.
After a big falling out with two siblings, I began to attend counseling. In 6 months, I started attending AL-Anon (alcoholic father). 6 more months and I started attending AA and realized I had the disease as well. Most of the answers I got to the question of how do I help, was to try and get myself better. The healthier I was, the more capable I was of deciphering what was my responsibility and what wasn't. I still attend meetings and still attend counseling. I take all the help I can get.
I was pretty open to talking to my wife about what I was doing when she was willing to listen. She came to a few al-anon meetings. A few times I convinced her to attend counseling, but they were hard for her.
Out of the blue, she told me about how she was going to her own counseling and was attending a group that worked for her. It was like exactly what people had said it might happen in meetings. "when people see what you're doing and you're showing how it feels to work on your health, they want it for themselves."
I can't tell you the number of times I told my wife, "I wish you saw yourself the way I see you", "I hate hearing you talk about yourself in that way.", "I love you", compliments and compliments.
I suppose I decided that I couldn't control how she felt about herself. If she was suffering from depression, I couldn't fix that.
What I could do was be honest. After months of therapy, I did talk to her about the comments she made that sounded like she was considering suicide. I've seen the professional development dvds and they say that talking about it doesn't make the person more likely to commit suicide. I didn't feel qualified to talk about it WHATSOEVER. I still don't.
One thing my counselor told me was to work on understanding my wife. The way I know that I'm understanding her is if she says so. Maybe working on my listening and understanding her also helped?
I'm so sorry that you lost your sister. I wish you well in working on feeling healthy for yourself. I wish your brother well also.
After a big falling out with two siblings, I began to attend counseling. In 6 months, I started attending AL-Anon (alcoholic father). 6 more months and I started attending AA and realized I had the disease as well. Most of the answers I got to the question of how do I help, was to try and get myself better. The healthier I was, the more capable I was of deciphering what was my responsibility and what wasn't. I still attend meetings and still attend counseling. I take all the help I can get.
I was pretty open to talking to my wife about what I was doing when she was willing to listen. She came to a few al-anon meetings. A few times I convinced her to attend counseling, but they were hard for her.
Out of the blue, she told me about how she was going to her own counseling and was attending a group that worked for her. It was like exactly what people had said it might happen in meetings. "when people see what you're doing and you're showing how it feels to work on your health, they want it for themselves."
I can't tell you the number of times I told my wife, "I wish you saw yourself the way I see you", "I hate hearing you talk about yourself in that way.", "I love you", compliments and compliments.
I suppose I decided that I couldn't control how she felt about herself. If she was suffering from depression, I couldn't fix that.
What I could do was be honest. After months of therapy, I did talk to her about the comments she made that sounded like she was considering suicide. I've seen the professional development dvds and they say that talking about it doesn't make the person more likely to commit suicide. I didn't feel qualified to talk about it WHATSOEVER. I still don't.
One thing my counselor told me was to work on understanding my wife. The way I know that I'm understanding her is if she says so. Maybe working on my listening and understanding her also helped?
I'm so sorry that you lost your sister. I wish you well in working on feeling healthy for yourself. I wish your brother well also.
Just to "keep statements in the 'I' form," although we can't fix people, I did try sending my (world's biggest codependent) sister a copy of the ACA big-red-book awhile back. I think I sent her one or two of the Al-Anon meditation books, too. I tried to drag her to an Al-Anon meeting when she was in town, but she wouldn't go.
But awhile back, she told me that she's started going to some meetings. And, "when I looked through that red book, I started recognizing myself in a lot of it!"
Might be worth a try!
T
But awhile back, she told me that she's started going to some meetings. And, "when I looked through that red book, I started recognizing myself in a lot of it!"
Might be worth a try!
T
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bullhead City, Arizona
Posts: 89
He is not an alcoholic/addict and has no addiction issues of which I am aware. However, he has struggled for most of his adult life - jobs, money, relationships, etc. He is super smart, well educated, handsome, and very funny. Yet he doesn't see any of this in himself. He sees himself and his life as a failure. He is in his 40s and this has been going on for at least 10 years. I honestly don't know if he has an underlying mental health issue or if this is all an outcome of our upbringing of growing up in an alcoholic/dysfunctional home.
Your brother sounds exactly like me. I'm 65 - when I was in my early 40s I started to realize I needed help - did my own "therapy" for about 15 years before I went to a therapist... In our church, if we deal with kids, we need to attend a 3 hour class on child molestation: what signs to look for, etc... One of the things they talk about is the effect on the victims: can't hold a job or stay in relationships, anger, suicidal, etc... This class hit home for me - after 8 years with my therapist - because I had all these traits. I wasn't molested, but my mother would get angry, blame me for things I hadn't done, then punish me in a way that had sexual overtones. Then she would threaten me with more punishment if I said anything to anyone, but she would do this is a hallway where no one else could hear. So, even my MFT sister isn't sure she believes me.
I'm not sure if your brother has the same issues, but *how* to get your brother to open up is another question. I wish I had a better answer. For what it's worth, what started me on this journey was the book "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw.
But, I sympathize with you. You're between the proverbial "rock and a hard spot" with a sibling that you might be closer to than you realize?
Hi there dbh
The standard al-anon line is that there _is_ a lot we can do for our "qualifiers", it's just that the things that are actually helpful are not the expected things.
The way we work it in our meetings in real life is to imagine that your brother comes to you one day and _asks_ for help. What would be something that _would_ be helpful?
From what you have described I think you are right in that he may have ACoA issues, just like all the rest of us. So, a good therapist would be the first suggestion. But how do you find a _good_ therapist? What I do is I ask people at my real life meetings for a good therapist.
So I'm going to throw out some things I have done that might be useful to you.
I have gone "therapist shopping", which means go to a lot of therapists and get their first session for free, just to get a "Feel" for what the therapist is like. You could to this in order to get a good idea of how to pick a therapist so that if your brother calls you can educate him over the phone on how to do the same for himself.
Every so often I go to as many different real life meetings as I can. Just to see what they are like, get a "feel" for the people there and what the meeting is all about. You could do the same thing with the purpose of having some real life suggestions to give your brother as to how to find a good meeting in his part of the world.
I have a small collection of books on ACoA stuff, and when a newbie comes around I let them borrow them and see which they like. I read the books with the objective of being able to tell newbies what the book is about, what I like about the book, or not like, and _why_ i find the book useful or not.
You could save your brother a lot of time if you collected a handful of books that seem useful to your particular family.
The overall idea is to be prepared for the day, if it ever comes, when the "qualifier" has that "bottom" and truly asks for help. By finding out what resources are available in the community, and being able to simply hand them a list of people to call, meetings to visit, right then and there in that moment, you _can_ do a lot for them.
Am I making sense with all of this? It's hard to explain over the web.
Mike
The way we work it in our meetings in real life is to imagine that your brother comes to you one day and _asks_ for help. What would be something that _would_ be helpful?
From what you have described I think you are right in that he may have ACoA issues, just like all the rest of us. So, a good therapist would be the first suggestion. But how do you find a _good_ therapist? What I do is I ask people at my real life meetings for a good therapist.
So I'm going to throw out some things I have done that might be useful to you.
I have gone "therapist shopping", which means go to a lot of therapists and get their first session for free, just to get a "Feel" for what the therapist is like. You could to this in order to get a good idea of how to pick a therapist so that if your brother calls you can educate him over the phone on how to do the same for himself.
Every so often I go to as many different real life meetings as I can. Just to see what they are like, get a "feel" for the people there and what the meeting is all about. You could do the same thing with the purpose of having some real life suggestions to give your brother as to how to find a good meeting in his part of the world.
I have a small collection of books on ACoA stuff, and when a newbie comes around I let them borrow them and see which they like. I read the books with the objective of being able to tell newbies what the book is about, what I like about the book, or not like, and _why_ i find the book useful or not.
You could save your brother a lot of time if you collected a handful of books that seem useful to your particular family.
The overall idea is to be prepared for the day, if it ever comes, when the "qualifier" has that "bottom" and truly asks for help. By finding out what resources are available in the community, and being able to simply hand them a list of people to call, meetings to visit, right then and there in that moment, you _can_ do a lot for them.
Am I making sense with all of this? It's hard to explain over the web.
Mike
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