ajarlson

Is it possible to be too "detached"? Just wondering as I read posts in other forums, and realizing that detachment was never my problem. In the very beginning with my AH I was in love and all, but when he cheated on me I detached very easily and only took him back after rehab for the kids. I gritted my teeth and got through the next 15 years for my kids. He was soberish for most it so I just toughed it until I could live my life. But when I read those posts that talk about all the horrible stuff someone is doing to someone else and they say they still love them and don't want to leave them - I'm cold and emotionless and think - DTMF (dump the mother*&^%). It's so hard for me to relate as I have always been a more detached type of person in general - and as I've gone through the exercise of cutting out all the negative influences (AH, AM, some friends) I just don't even miss them (I was GREAT at Alanon!). Is this ACoA behavior? Are we just so skilled at putting up walls that we don't even know they're there?

DoubleDragons

Thanks for bringing this up, ajarlson. Though I still am in contact with my AM, I have always found it relatively easy to move on from people and places with very little concern. Facebook is not a big interest of mine as I have no huge interest to reconnect from people in my past, even people I was fairly close with and spent much time. I have worried about this trait of mine, too, as my AM always accused me of not caring for family enough. I wonder if it is a self protective thing? People who meet me assume that I am an extrovert because I am friendly, but honestly, I really like being by myself.

Kialua

Self protective is my take on it. I too detach very quickly and easily. ajarlson are you as detached from your alcoholic parent as well? If you are maybe that's where you learned it from.

NWGRITS

I think it's certainly easier to look at those situations and say "Seriously, GTFO! What are you DOING?!?" And I really have to curb my responses sometimes because not everyone has the perspective we do.

happybeingme

I think it depends on your definition of detachment. As a recovering codependent I see detachment merely as a healthy way to interact with people. I no longer involve myself in trying to control people, save them or rescue them. But I can still maintain good relationships with them.

Those other people I believe are very ill and lack the understanding that it isn't just the alcohol. All of those behaviors were always just under the surface. All alcohol does is remove self restraint. That stuff will still be there after the alcohol is removed and could eventually resurface.

tromboneliness

Well, at its worst, my own situation was one where, if I'd been looking at it from here, I'd probably have said, "Hey, Trombone, GTFO, she's ruining your life!" But from the inside, it looked different, because... well, as with everything, it's complicated. Having possibly the worst-ever case of "relationship anorexia" (51 years old, have had exactly one "relationship," in the sense of... well, you know what I'm talking about... and it's still going), I felt then -- and still feel -- that she was my one shot at it, so to speak, and it was either keep going or be alone forever. I'm that bad at relationships!

So ya, I have to bite my tongue, too, at times -- but then, I remember how different things look from here, and with some distance of time and space from my own FOO and extended-family issues. What looks blindingly obvious to us, here in the peanut gallery, looks different to the person going through it....

T

happybeingme

Having thought about this some more I wanted to add that yes I do believe you can detach too much. If you have a problem maintaining relationships or people are pulling away you may want to look at yourself and see if perhaps your detachment has become emotional shutdown.

Trombone- I do agree if we aren't on the inside we should be careful in our judgment. My husband probably should have left me a million times but he believed in me and finally after almost 23 years of marriage I am becoming who I should have always been and he knew I had the potential for.

I have a big concern with some of those people who deal with abuse, cheating, separation, divorce and still won't let go. And the kids. Those poor kids who have witnessed this and continue to because of a parents refusal to accept reality. We here all know those kids are going to experience the same things or will inflict those things on another person. That drives me over the edge. Sometimes I want to shout ruin your own life if you want but give those kids to someone else to raise so they at least have a half of a chance

dbh

I too have a particularly hard time reading about people with children staying with their alcoholic spouses. Because of my own experiences, I just want to scream "Get them out of that environment NOW!"

My mom still likes to think that she "shielded" us from the behavior of our alcoholic father. Because he wasn't home that much and she tried to keep a "happy" house she still thinks it didn't affect us (ha!).

Back to the original post ...

I do think that it is possible to detach too much. When I first started my recovery work and looked around at all the dysfucntional relationships I was involved in I wanted to remove everyone from my life. It was hard for me to establish healthy relationships with healthy boundaries. This was especially true with members of my family of origin because we had a history of dysfunction together.

I think it is hard to remove all toxic/difficult people from your life though. There are certain situations where you just have to figure out ways to interact but yet protect yourself - at work, church, social circles. While I am still working on this, it is easier for me to set boundaries with strangers and acquaintances then with old friends and family members. Again, it's because of our history.

I hope I am not sounding like we should all embrace the toxic people in our lives. However, it has been my experience that with a little work you can sometimes learn to function with dysfunctional people.

My mom grew up with an abusive mother and then went on to marry an alcoholic. She protects herself by cutting people out of her life (even for minor problems). She is in her 70s and basically lives in isolation with my stepfather because she can't handle the stress of being around anyone else.

My sister and I had a dysfunctional relationship. I went non-contact with her for a couple of years because I didn't know how to interact with her in a healthy way. We were always super critical of each other and offered each other unsolicited advise (we were taught this at home). I missed her though, so we figured out a way to be around each other without drama. However, I did have to keep a bit of a wall up because I could easily get pulled into co-dependent behavior. It bothered her that we weren't as "close" as we used to be. She died by suicide two years ago and I have a lot of regret and guilt. In my mind, if I had only "recovered" faster I could have had more of a relationship with her.

Thanks for letting me share.

db

ajarlson

To clarify, I am not judging anyone because I cannot throw stones, I stayed with my AH for way too long as far as my kids are concerned. But it was not because I loved him or couldn't imagine life without him, I just weighed the scales and up until the end the scales came out in favor of him staying as being better for the kids. If I had not executed the escape plan the way I did I have no doubt he would have put us all through hell before he would have left voluntarily. So, no stones to throw here, I just wonder quietly to myself... and then realize I probably need to work on attachment LOL. To answer you Kialua, my AM did not raise me. My grandparents raised me, and while I still love them (they passed away quite a while ago) there was some abusive behavior there as well. So to some extent I probably have a slight detachment disorder, but I'm working on it. When I start feeling emotion about something I push it away and will myself not to feel anything. I have read about therapy to bring all that up to the surface but for myself, I feel like I know it's there and I am dealing with it in my own time and my own way. I am not sure I want to start digging into that hole.

Kialua

Detachment is a survival skill we learned, to, well, survive! Nothing wrong with that as long it as serves to protect us. But when it starts to isolate us then it becomes a problem. Someone here has said, tools that helped us survive are fine as long as they are still needed. When they aren't needed, not so much.

dbh

I apologize if my post came across as judgemental with regards to staying with alcoholic spouses. The adult in me realizes that people, relationships, and situations are complicated. I truly believe that most people try to make the best decisions that they can under trying circumstances.

Reading Sober Recovery has given me insight on just how difficult leaving can be and it has actually helped me look at the decisions and choices that my mother made in a different light.

I can also look at my own life. I went from one dysfunctional relationship to the next until I was in my early thirties. Change is hard.

Wishing everyone hope and continued healing.

db

thotful

I grew up in an alcoholic home and loved ones had ENDLESS advice for one another and rarely looked at their own behavior. The advice was far more about control than anything else. So, for me, advice will tend to land on ears that aren't listening. I have people in my life trying to tell me, "I know what's best for you" and THESE people are supposed-to-be (societal standards) the most trusted people in my life. In the end, what they want for me doesn't work for me. Or, more simply put, I make decisions in my life - I decide who I am. I decide what works for me and what doesn't. Etc.

Also, I think that if someone does something purely because someone else told them to, they don't have ownership of the decision. How do they make the next decision? And the next? Give someone a fish, and they eat for a day. Show them how to fish and they eat for a lifetime. Unfortunately, dealing with an alcoholic in my life is NOT AS SIMPLE as catching a fish. Not by a longshot.

No matter how much a person writes in SR, or says in person in front of me, I will NEVER actually experience their life. The nuances of non-verbal language from others, the tiny details I will never see. I will never know the full experience because I didn't live it. I didn't experience the feelings, and I didn't experience the moment(s). What that person likes and doesn't like (boundaries are not universal - there are not a set of rules that everyone should follow - each person has boundaries that work for them) cannot be defined by me.

For me, experience, strength, and hope have been enormously more easy to be open to hearing than advice. Advice reminds me of the controlling and abusive childhood that I want to escape. Experience is PURELY authentic and accurate, especially when it comes from the heart. When a person tells me a story about their life, a choice they made, the pros and cons and leaves it at that, I have an ENORMOUS opening for choice. I can decide what I like and leave the rest. I LOVED this about Al-Anon. People were not telling me precisely what I needed to do, I needed to figure that out on my own by understanding and figuring out who Thotful is. However, at the same time, hearing about other people's experiences was (and still is) truly amazing. There's something about it that is 1000 times more useful to me than a person trying to interpret my life and prescribe the next action.

Because of what I like to hear from others when I am expressing frustration over things or looking for some support, I will often try to stick to my own life. Try to find something that is similar in my own life and talk about that - talk about the choices I made and what worked and what didn't for me. Talk about what I view as mistakes I made. Talk about how I feel.

I don't have the experience of what it's like to have an alcoholic spouse, so I can't speak to that. I can speak to alcoholic parents and siblings (in stages where major consequences have yet to occur). But only from my own perspective, which will be limited to my life.

I hate to see others in pain. I wish I could zap away the disease and free people from the excruciating experience of a loved one that's sick. Not only are they hurting themselves, but they are ridiculously difficult to live with. I continue to read on SR, go to Al-Anon meetings to help me deal with figuring out what I can actually control.

thotful

ooh, a member in Al-Anon says something in meetings I really like personally,
"I have seen people find the strength to leave difficult relationships and I have seen people find the strength to stay in difficult relationships"

I suppose I can't really be 100% positive when a person should leave and when they should stay. In my opinion, there are no "musts" and "shoulds" in my life.