Blossom717

Mom and I were discussing Narcissists and Addicts yesterday. We both have history's of choosing A's or emotionally abusive (and for her, physically abusive) partners.

She hasn't done as much research as I, and I haven't gotten her to read the Co Dependent No More book (she keeps saying no).

Anyway, we were talking. looking at a page on facebook about unhealthy relationships with manipulators. She looked at me and asked, "Ok, I get what an unhealthy relationship is. But how do we know when we find a healthy one?"

I'm right here with her. I don't know what a healthy relationship is because I've never had one. Actually, I think that the guy I'm seeing now is turning out to be the same as the rest...There have been numerous red flags despite his "charming" ways.

What do you think is healthy in a relationship? if you are in one now after working on your own recovery, how did you know it was healthy?

hopeful4

I would say by observing their behavior over the course of a very long time. Don't ignore any red flags.

XXX

dandylion

Blossom....that is a good question....but, I don't think there is one succinct and easy answer to it.

I do think that the foundation is to develop oneself....to the point that there is good self-esteem and self-confidence. This, of course, doesn't happen overnight and takes a period of self-examination and reflection...and some hard work..lol.

When there is good self-esteem...I think we recoil when someone is attempting to walk over us..or our feelings...or opinions. That "recoiling" is what I think of as a red flag.

I also think that when one surrounds themselves with healthy functioning people--it becomes easier to recognize the difference.

These are just my particular thoughts on the subject....

dandylion

LeeJane

I feel that we attract healthy people once we have done the work we need on ourselves and feel happy and whole as a person in our own right. We don't need a partner.

I am finding the more work I do on myself, I can now see red flags on people and honour my feelings on this. I step away.

Also as my self esteem is growing, things that I would have accepted in a partner some time ago, are totally unacceptable to me now. Eg, drinker/drug user, a man looking for a mum to look after him, an abusive man.

Blossom717

I agree that one has to work on themselves. I am trying to figure out a way to break up with the current red-flagger. I don't know what I'm afraid of (haha, oh no, he might break up with me if I break up with him!) but I really need to figure it out. Since we don't see each other but every other weekend I almost want to do it the childish way and by text...I know I shouldn't. I skipped "our" weekend this past weekend. Stayed at home and enjoyed the quiet.

I know a lot of us codies are scared to be alone. I know my mom is and once upon a time I was. Maybe I still am a little? maybe that's why I can't seem to Woman up and break up with this guy?

Now, to find healthy functioning people to surround myself with....is there some sort of membership?

SparkleKitty

When I was unhealthy myself, I thought I needed someone to complete me. I rushed from relationship to relationship with other broken people, hoping that together we could make one whole person. I met with a lot of despair and disappointment. I was either jealous and insecure, or discontent but too afraid of being alone to end the relationship.

After I gained a healthy sense of self-esteem and became a whole person all by myself, I no longer felt the crushing need to be in a relationship. I could see people for who they really were and not what I hoped they'd be, and make good choices about whether and how much I wanted them in my life.

Eventually I met another whole person. We are best friends, have great passion for each other and for the art we create both together and separately, and want the same things in life. Now instead of being afraid of my partner being a separate person from me, I embrace and respect it. I can't wait to hear what he thinks today, what he becomes tomorrow, and all the things he'll do and be as long as I know him. I accept that I have no idea what will happen in the future, but today we are together and we are greater than the the sum of our parts, and I'm really grateful for that.

I don't know if that helps, Blossom, but if not, then I'll just add that Dandylion has the right of it. When we focus on becoming our best selves just for our own sakes, the rest follows.

Blossom717

Sparklekitty - I love the perspective you put it in!

dandylion

Blossom...I would say...first--don't wait for it to be "easy"...it never is.
Keep it short. Make only I statements--don't list his shortcomings.

This is above all things...about being HONEST (and respectful). Honesty begins with yourself, of course. Honest about how you really feel...and respecting your own right to leave a relationship that you are not truly happy with. And, respect enough for the other person not to lead them on.

dandylion

atalose

I think the only stupid question is the one you don’t ask.

I think when our whole lives have been built on un-healthy relationship foundations its hard learning what is and what isn’t healthy but not impossible.

I think we pretty much know the unhealthy ones, the red flag people are the ones we need to let go of the quickest.

If you know this guy is not for you and it's bringing you more discontent then happiness do the old “it’s not you it’s me” and cut him loose. Just doing that in itself will help you build some self- esteem and give you a little power push. If your normal communications are via text or email then tell him that way but if your normal communications are via phone then do it that way. It’s doesn’t have to be a broad way production in person with a script to read. Just stick with what’s been the norm for the two of you.

Understanding what is healthy has a lot to do with those red flags and understanding what makes those character traits so unhealthy for us.

isitme

I'm right there with you.. I think healthy feels abnormal to me and I tend to run away from it. However I keep referring to this list.. when I look at the healthy side of it, it makes me feel good. That's what I'm after.

Here is a short list of the characteristics of Love vs. toxic love (compiled with the help of the work of Melody Beattie & Terence Gorski.)

1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.

2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be
fear, insecurity, loneliness)

3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.

4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.

5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."

6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.

7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.

8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.

9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.

10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)

11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.

12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.

13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.

14. Love - Conversations based upon intent to Understand, Help, or convey affection.
Toxic love - Conversations based upon intent to blame, defend, or manipulate

healthyagain

What got me into trouble is that I wanted a relationship (and my intentions were not bad at all! I wanted a husband, someone who wanted children, and wanted to grow old with me). But I was not ready for a relationship. I was going through a difficult period in my life when I would settle for anything because my family of origin was falling apart. And honestly, I had no support or an adult person to advise me. I was looking for comfort in another person, a soul mate. I felt that everybody else had betrayed me.

No one ever told me that it was possible to be happy even when alone. I can clearly see that now. But what makes a good relationship anyway? You know, as I'm growing old and meet more people, I have a different point of you. For example, everybody, but absolutely EVERYBODY, has some relationship issues. There are so many divorced people around me, single parents, I see other people's drama every day. I see people divorcing and remarrying the same person, then dating, then divorcing again! So if I meet a couple and am able to say "oh, I so envy those two, I wish I had that," I'll let you know.

So, I think now that a happy relationship is about respecting each other, not trying to manipulate, not trying to change (and people try to change each other even in "normal relationships" when there is no alcohol involved). But in order to know what you want from another person and what you generally want in life, you must find who you are first. Be happy with yourself. And then somebody might come into your life and make you even happier. And maybe that person never comes, but that is still ok. You will always have yourself.

Astolfo

There really should be a handshake or a special hat...

Here's a playful, poetic way of looking at this: Shel Silverstein's "The Missing Piece".

The Missing Piece Meets the Big O

fluffyflea

My main thought for the last two hours is I don't want a boyfriend. Then it would be so much less stress.

Hangnbyathread

That's been my thought for about 3 years now. (girl in my case) LOL.

sugarbear1

I believe any red flag is a sign to cut off a relationship. It took me years to learn this.

PurpleWilder

EnglishGarden originally posted this - thanks!
Bill of Rights for Relationship

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This list is from the book "The Object of My Affection is in My Reflection: Coping with Narcissists" by Rokelle Lerner, a therapist.

Personal Bill of Rights for My Relationships:

1. I have a right to be treated with courtesy and respect.
2. I have a right to be the only romantic or sexual interest in my partner's life.
3. I have a right to be informed about our assets, manage my own finances, and choose how I spend my money.
4. I have a right to have a say in decisions that affect myself and my family.
5. I have a right to be wrong and make mistakes without being punished or humiliated.
6. I have the right to live without emotional or physical violence.
7. I have the right to voice my opinion respectfully without retribution.
8. I have the right to have my personal property treated with respect.
9. I have the right to talk to others about matters that affect me.
10. I have the right to choose my own friends.
11. I have the right to enjoy myself.
12. I have the right to live without guns or pornography in my house.
13. My children have the right to be treated with respect and dignity.

FireSprite

That is definitely a fear worth conquering, I'm sure it is a large component in what you are feeling. I didn't think about it much after being in a relationship for so many years so I was surprised at how fearful I was when RAH & I separated.

You need time, Blossom, time with no one else but you. Time to develop that self-trust & self-confidence to not NEED anything from another person. The healthier YOU get, the stronger & more sustainable your boundaries are for unacceptable people. The more YOU grow, the more you open up to new people, activities, groups, hobbies, etc. The more exposure you get to healthier people with similar interests. The more likely you are to find a person that FITS into YOUR life. The more likely Little Blossom develops better habits, earlier in life, by watching you value yourself that way.

Slooooooooooowwwwwwwww dowwwwwwwnnnnnnn would be my "advice" to you, .