Pouncer

Hello,

I have worked with AVRT in the past and am trying to formulate my Big Plan. However, I would like to get some suggestions for another secular method besides AVRT. I have had a lot of experience with AV recognition and was wondering if I could add to my repertoire?

There are some aspects of AVRT that I liked, but it made me a little paranoid and somewhat fixated on 'the voice.'

Glad to find this secular forum.

Thanks!

LonelyShadow

I found Allen Carr's Easyway quite helpful in changing the way I perceived alcohol, it helps to understand how when you cut alcohol out of your life you are not depriving yourself of anything. Totally secular method and can be used alongside AVRT imo

jazzfish

Many people find the technique of urge surfing to be very useful: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-surfing.html

fini

check out SMART.
they have meetings along a secular, practical "program".
and Lifering helps you develop your own program.
AVRT fits well into both of them

JeffreyAK

SMART is another option for a secular program, evolved and diverged from RR. LifeRing doesn't really have a program per se, but the workbook is excellent and helps you sort things out and come up with your own personal program. The "AV" is referred to as the "A" in LifeRing, it's a common way of viewing the sobriety struggle that also comes up in medical treatment programs, so it's not unique to RR. I'm not sure SOS is more than a website nowadays, but they used to provide local face to face secular meetings and probably still do in some regions of the US.

Pouncer

Thanks, everyone.

I have looked in the past at SMART meetings. I know there are many in the SoCal area where I live, so I will try one. Thanks!

I have done 'urge surfing' in the past. But I utterly forgot, so thank you jazzfish.

Maybe what I should have asked is if anyone also has book recommendations? I have read Jason Vale's book and a few others; I am always open to new suggestions.

On a side note: I just finished my hard-earned taper today. It was rough, but I can't believe I made it this far, especially mentally. Every relapse is worse than the former. That was the last detox ever.

biminiblue

^^that's all there is to it.

Rinse and repeat daily for the rest of your life. Ta Da.

jazzfish

• Alan Carr's The Easy Way to Control Your Drinking
• Anne Fletcher's Sober for Good
• Mark Tuschel's Living Sober Sucks
• David Downie's Between Drinks

AddictGuy

I can relate to the thing about not liking to focus on the AV as in being paranoid about it and fixating on it and all. On the other hand I am well too aware of just kinda letting things ride, not thinking about it like, it's ok, I got this, and then getting blindsided and . . . down you go.

this one guy on here was saying that he had been sober for years because everyday he feared relapse so much. but what does that say for being confident that you just won't drink that day. Frankly, I end up confused. AND I have little doubt my AV just loves exploiting my confusion, like any good little AV will always do.

I do know, however that I want to be among the winners. And we see all kinds here. Winners and losers. And (*&^% I want to be one of those that says, "I got this" and can prove it with my track record.

i will tell you what happened to me just a few days ago. i was happily going about my business and i heard in my head, "I deserve this" (meaning picking up) and then right on the heels of that I heard in my head, "I am not ready to get well," and then on the hells of that was this euphoria, which i have heard called the buzz of anticipation, which science says is a real thing, with a little burst of chemicals getting produced and sent on their merry way across your dendrites or whatever and wham! I am toast.

Then i think deserve? deserve what? to be sick? And then even scarier, "I am not ready to get well."? And I am so way WTF???

but that's how it went down. I think of someone's screen name on here, "Scaredofchange" and damned if i can't relate. If I get well there are things I would have to face -- fears -- challenges, getting-on-with-my-life things but if i can stay sick I can stay safe and won't have to face any of that, and so, it makes sense -- sort of. Being sick is good. Right, and I am &^^$ nuts. My soc is no longer alcohol and not even illegal, but it is debilitating all the same. This is day 2 for me, of a million day twos, but I want this to be the last day 2. maybe I just have to be ready to get well, as scary as that might be, and I have to get away from the sense that I deserve this -- this stuff that makes me sick. Lord god, I am trying. Like I said, i want to be with the winners, I expect it of myself, it's where I deserve to be and I just want to be one of you winner guys.

AddictGuy

There's all the books in the world and all of the thinking about it in the world and all of the talking about it in the world, and all of the meetings in the world but even from what i am hearing from some of you winners on here, eventually you just have to &^^%#$ do it! You just have to quit. And stay quit.

jazzfish

Yep. At the foundation of every approach is the fact that sobriety will rely on your decisions and your actions.

JeffreyAK

This is the one that had the most impact for me early on, Empowering Your Sober Self - LifeRing Parts seem a bit angry to me now, but early recovery has a lot of anger sometimes so it fits well.

freshstart57

When you begin to consider acceptance of the AV as your biggest sobriety tool, I suggest Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now and The New Earth. His guidance to mindfulness lets me put some emotional elbow room around things that happen to me, and allow me to process them and accept them without judgement. Works great for AV too.

fini

i got tons out of the first Lifering book: Recovery by Choice, by Martin Nicolaus.
it's a workbook, designed for exploring your beliefs, habits, environment, goals...all relating to getting and staying sober.
you can order it from their website. worth every penny!

LifeRing - LifeRing

congratulations on completing the taper; best to you ongoing.

GerandTwine

Hi AG,

This thread is for alternative suggestions to AVRT, but you keep mentioning your AV and "...on the other hand..." and "You just have to quit".

I sort of remember the euphoria from that first cup of the day. It was when Starbucks was pretty new and my Beast used to love the ritual visits.

I got terrible headaches if I didn't keep caffeine in my system, and when I quit for a few days, I got joint pain in my knees and elbows.

So, I made a Big Plan for caffeinated beverages a long time ago.

But I quickly began increasing my dark chocolate intake for mood changing purposes, to the point of eating at least a pound a day. Yuk.

Well, then I made a caffeine Big Plan for solid foods, too. And it's been wonderful. You can do it, too.

I don't know a programmatic way to solidly end an addiction other than by practicing AVRT, and I've been immersed in several ways and studied lots of others.

If you haven't gotten to day 2 recently, try making a small plan for a month to get a grip on your AV, and then get real serious and kill IT with a Big Plan, or just take an oath to yourself and not use any program. Remember, all your AV is, is the desire for caffeine.

Reclaim those 20 year old memories and enjoy the lifestyle of un-caffeinated living - now and forever. Of course, you can do it.

GT

JeffreyAK

There are many, many paths to sobriety, and though you may not have found any others that work for you, there are plenty of paths that work for others.

GerandTwine

When I quit eating sweets a few years ago, I found myself skidding along a similar partial recovery sheet of ice as you now have with your substance of choice. Like you, I was using AVRT without a Big Plan.

It was to keep my sugar intake down to occasional uses. But I realized that doing that for the rest of my life was a waste of effort and anticipation, so I made my Big Plan (while online here on SR several years ago) and I've been very relaxed about NEVER eating man made sweets again.

What was somewhat counter-intuitive is that AV Recognition is A LOT EASIER WITH THE BIG PLAN IN PLACE. The AV is SOOOooo Recognizable knowing "I will never use [S O C] again."

It's like taking a high dive into a deep pool for the first time. You either do it or you don't. And once you do it, you can't take it back. The Big Plan really makes Addictive Voice Recognition Technique pretty easy, even if it sounds like overkill (that last phrase was from the Beast).

OK, so I said it, now you can get back to other alternative program investigation. But think, in strict AVRT terms, can such investigation while being on the cusp of making a Big Plan be considered AV activity?

GerandTwine

Thanks for the emphasis, and reminding me that I probably should have said AVRT ends both the addiction AND the recovery.

Pouncer

Wow, such thoughtful and unique responses. I should hang out here more! I got slaughtered in the newbie threads for mentioning I was tapering. They thought I was suggesting MM.

I did finish the last taper around noon. I wanted it out of the way without much fanfare. I had to work all day on a legal pleading in my crowded house and I just wanted to do today's taper (one unit) without any fanfare. One 4 oz glass of wine really did me in; I cannot believe how much I used to drink. Now, I am supposedly detoxed, officially on Day 1 (it is 1 AM here) and ready to start the hard work of lifelong abstinence.

I really didn't have much time to reflect on what all of this meant. I was elated when I realized I had finally finished the taper, no more high BP, sweating, hand shaking. I am out of that world, crossing into the world of safety and self-awareness and it is a little bit scary.

I won't elaborate, but today was one of the most stressful days of my life, dealing with major external problems. A helper and my husband broke out a bottle of wine and it hit me then. Oh well. But, I dealt with all of it sober.

I am familiar with AVRT; it kept me sober for a year, so I will go ahead and move with my Big Plan and finalize and get it in place. The Life Ring book was something I was going to buy earlier, so thank you for the input.

Addict Guy, thanks for your input. I suppose we are going through this together.

Thanks again.

Dee74

Congrats on day one Pounder

D